paladin feats help


Advice


Well. i'm lvl 14 human paladin with a 2-hand weapon. mainly so far my feats are focused on damage. recently one more player joined and we both end up with curnugun smash+hurtful so the DM banned the feats couse they were OP. So now i have 2 free slots on feats. (i got fey founding-combat stamina-power attack-furious focus-vital strike-unsanctioned knowledge(for heroism from bard :P)-improved vital strike-improved critical.)right now i'm doing a lot damage, i'm kinda unkillable and i want some feats for utility... any sugestions?


kopidis wrote:
Well. i'm lvl 14 human paladin with a 2-hand weapon. mainly so far my feats are focused on damage. recently one more player joined and we both end up with curnugun smash+hurtful so the DM banned the feats couse they were OP. So now i have 2 free slots on feats. (i got fey founding-combat stamina-power attack-furious focus-vital strike-unsanctioned knowledge(for heroism from bard :P)-improved vital strike-improved critical.)right now i'm doing a lot damage, i'm kinda unkillable and i want some feats for utility... any sugestions?

Ultimate Mercy is a good one. Off day free raise Dead.


i was planning on taking that on next lvl but i sure can take it now... :)

Shadow Lodge

Not sure why he thought those were OP in a 14th-level setting, but I digress.

~ ~ ~

Do you have the feat Greater Mercy already? (If not, you're losing out on a free 1d6+? every time you LoH.) If you went mount, do you have Wheeling Charge yet?

Other note: At that WBL, Heroism is something you could just drink as a potion or cast off a wand rather than using up a precious paladin spell slot. If money is not a problem, retrain Unsanctioned Knowledge into Extra Traits (Dangerously Curious and either Accelerated Drinker or Thoroughbred). Buy an INT upgrade for your headband and apply the new points to Use Magic Device.


I like Unsanctioned Knowledge, you can also pick up Haste and Dimension Door, which opens up the Dimensional Agility feat chain, which you should now qualify for.

If you're going to retain, see if the DM would allow you to start that chain. Spellcaster pounce is real.


Reward of Grace
Reward of Life
Turn Undead
Burning Channel
Extra Mercy
Greater Mercy
Ultimate Mercy
Extra Channel
Channeled Revival


i already have usanctioned knoledge for herois from bard :P... i'm not intreasted in going for spellcasting at all. i want to hit hard, heal and tank... :P


Fey Foundling is a pretty good feat if you're getting a free retraining opportunity from the GM.

Shadow Lodge

The problems with Unsanctioned Knowledge are multi-fold: you get four spells known. That's it. You don't get extra slots. And: "Once chosen, these spells cannot be changed." And: they're doled out piecemeal one per spell-level, which means you have to wait forever to get the last two. Lastly, it's a feat.

I'm sorry, but that's poop in anything save an utterly cash-starved, hobbits-walking-across-Mordor campaign.

Compare to Dangerously Curious, which is a trait that's good to go right from 1st-level and which opens up ALL magic to those with a little coin, and especially if CHA is their prime-stat. -- How many scrolls and wands of low- and mid-level utility spells can a 14th-level character afford? I dunno...all of them? At least enough to completely stuff a haversack to overflowing.


Unsanctioned Knowledge lets you add Dimension Door to your list, which then lets you take the Dimensional Dervish feat line. Dimensional Dervish allows you to always full attack, ignoring almost all barriers and/or impediments to your attacks. Consistent full attacking and immunity to kiting/CC is pretty important at higher levels of play, IMHO.

Then there's other buffs you can gain, like Heroism/Good Hope, or even Invisibility. Unsanctioned Knowledge is definitely worth the pick up if you don't want to constantly spend your limited amount of money on scrolls every time you want to cast something.


Kaouse wrote:

Unsanctioned Knowledge lets you add Dimension Door to your list, which then lets you take the Dimensional Dervish feat line. Dimensional Dervish allows you to always full attack, ignoring almost all barriers and/or impediments to your attacks. Consistent full attacking and immunity to kiting/CC is pretty important at higher levels of play, IMHO.

Then there's other buffs you can gain, like Heroism/Good Hope, or even Invisibility. Unsanctioned Knowledge is definitely worth the pick up if you don't want to constantly spend your limited amount of money on scrolls every time you want to cast something.

Unsanctioned Knowledge lets you cast Dimension Door at 13th Level (assuming a decent CHA you're going to get 1 bonus 4th level spell)

It's a 3 feat chain, so you'll have Dimensional Dervish at 17th level.

At that point you've got to use one of your 2 castings per day to actually get your full attack.

This seems like a very poor use of 4 feats and your 4th level spell slots to me.


vagabond_666 wrote:
Kaouse wrote:

Unsanctioned Knowledge lets you add Dimension Door to your list, which then lets you take the Dimensional Dervish feat line. Dimensional Dervish allows you to always full attack, ignoring almost all barriers and/or impediments to your attacks. Consistent full attacking and immunity to kiting/CC is pretty important at higher levels of play, IMHO.

Then there's other buffs you can gain, like Heroism/Good Hope, or even Invisibility. Unsanctioned Knowledge is definitely worth the pick up if you don't want to constantly spend your limited amount of money on scrolls every time you want to cast something.

Unsanctioned Knowledge lets you cast Dimension Door at 13th Level (assuming a decent CHA you're going to get 1 bonus 4th level spell)

It's a 3 feat chain, so you'll have Dimensional Dervish at 17th level.

At that point you've got to use one of your 2 castings per day to actually get your full attack.

This seems like a very poor use of 4 feats and your 4th level spell slots to me.

He can retrain out of the old feats using the rules in Ultimate Campaign as soon as he qualifies for them.


kopidis wrote:
Well. i'm lvl 14 human paladin with a 2-hand weapon. mainly so far my feats are focused on damage. recently one more player joined and we both end up with curnugun smash+hurtful so the DM banned the feats couse they were OP. So now i have 2 free slots on feats. (i got fey founding-combat stamina-power attack-furious focus-vital strike-unsanctioned knowledge(for heroism from bard :P)-improved vital strike-improved critical.)right now i'm doing a lot damage, i'm kinda unkillable and i want some feats for utility... any sugestions?

Please tell me you took Haste and Freedom of Movement as well. That's some powerful stuff for you to use there.

I'd retrain the Vital Strike feats (including Furious Focus), you got enough bonuses to hit, you don't need to worry about it. The whole "one hit wonder" thing isn't going to do you too much good, since you bypass DR and get more damage with each hit anyway.

The Eldritch Heritage feat chain (4 total, though only 3 feats are required right now; basically the Vital Strike feats you can retrain) can get you some powerful benefits depending on what options you take. Abyssal, for example, gives you Inherent Bonuses to your Strength, which means you're hitting more often and even harder than usual with each swing. There are multiple bloodlines to choose from, so consider your options.

Greater Mercy makes you heal more if a Mercy isn't needed.

Fearless Aura gives your allies immunity to Fear within 20 feet of your radius. Great for if one of your allies is a scaredy cat.

Reward of Grace gives you more to-hit each time you use your Lay On Hands.

If you are too afraid to lend your allies a couple Lay On Hands, taking the Extra Lay On Hands feat just for them would help you guys out greatly.

If you're lacking skills, the Cunning feat gives you an extra skill point per level. Since you could take Unsanctioned Knowledge, you could also take Fast Learner for the same benefit.

Just because you're banned from the two feat combo doesn't mean you can't find another way to go in-tandem with the new player. You could both take the Outflank Teamwork feats, which means your Flank bonuses double, and any time one of you guys critically hit a bad guy, the other makes a free attack of opportunity at him.

You may even want to spend some of these feats to shore up alternative combat methods. Point Blank + Precise Shot = Competent at ranged combat. Heck, even spending a feat on Improved Unarmed Strike and then going down a Style Feat Chain would be awesome. Dragon Style lets you charge through ally squares, for example.


master_marshmallow wrote:
He can retrain out of the old feats using the rules in Ultimate Campaign as soon as he qualifies for them.

So, it costs money and time (that he may not have) and he has to find someone that has the feats (who may not functionally exist), to use 4 feats at 13th level to get 1 use per day? That's way better.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

If third party stuff is allowed, Mystical Healer is pretty sweet. At 14th level, it adds +4d6 whenever you heal: lay on hands, channel energy, cure light wounds, etc.

If you and another melee type are both re-training feats, maybe coordinate with some fun Teamwork feats?

Vital Strike is good for all those times you have to move more than 5 feet to hit something, so I would keep those.

EDIT:

Additional Traits would be good to pick up Magical Knack (paladin) and Fates Fortune (for divine favor and any other Luck bonuses you can find.

Fey Foundling + Mystical Healing ups your Lay on Hands to 11d6+22 at 14th level. Not too shabby for swift action healing. If your party doesn't have a dedicated healer, Quick Channel and/or Selective Channel might be useful for in combat healing. And since Quick Channel is a Move Action, you can spam it with a Lay on Hands on yourself and/or benefit from a Vital Strike or even another Channel Energy or other standard action.

Extra Lay on Hands is a classic for a reason.

Reactive Healing can keep you from going down.


vagabond_666 wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
He can retrain out of the old feats using the rules in Ultimate Campaign as soon as he qualifies for them.

So, it costs money and time (that he may not have) and he has to find someone that has the feats (who may not functionally exist), to use 4 feats at 13th level to get 1 use per day? That's way better.

And? It's an option, plus there are ways to get more spells.

I'm pretty sure he should get at least two without investing in something like a pearl of power.

Shadow Lodge

Kaouse wrote:
Unsanctioned Knowledge is definitely worth the pick up if you don't want to constantly spend your limited amount of money on scrolls every time you want to cast something.

My 1st-level paladin with Dangerously Curious started play with two scrolls, and bought eight more after his first payday.

I don't think a 14th-level character will have trouble affording the hobby.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

My bad: Forget Reactive Healing. If you are being dropped to 0 hit points so often you need to spend a feat on that, something wrong is going on. Especially if you're a paladin, which means you probably have great armor and the greatest saving throws.

Some campaigns don't have magic shops or crafter PCs or crafter NPCs that scrolls and other magic items can be obtained from. Some are survival-based, some have hostile markets, some just don't have magic shops and some parties lack wizards, Rune Domain divine casters, etc., that make scrolls. In campaigns like those, Unsanctioned Knowledge adds some versatility to a paladin's spell repertoire.

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