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Starfinder Rules in a Pathfinder Game.


Homebrew


Has anyone used or considered using any of the Starfinder rules for their Pathfinder game? Personally, I was thinking of using the stat system in Starfinder, but I'm not sure if that would cause any unforeseen issues in a Pathfinder game. To be clear, I'm talking about using the Starfinder style point buy and the Starfinder style stat adjustments for leveling up.

But I'm just interested in general about anyone trying to use Starfinder rules in a Pathfinder game.


The first question I ask myself before considering a new rule or rule system for introduction or modification is, "In what way would it improve the experience?"


blahpers wrote:
The first question I ask myself before considering a new rule or rule system for introduction or modification is, "In what way would it improve the experience?"

I prefer how the Starfinder system is more friendly to classes with multiple ability dependence. And I prefer how it allows almost any race to be great at almost any class.


Melkiador, how do you think the system does that? I haven't had a chance to look at it yet, but what you just said gives me high hopes.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

For starters, maximum ability score is 18 -- whether you have a -2 or +2 racial mod to it. Getting that 18 just costs more points if you start out with a -2.


I guess I should have included the rules I was talking about, but I was hoping the conversation might be more open-ended.

Starfinder Point Buy:
BUYING ABILITY SCORES
In this method, you customize your ability scores by “buying” them using a pool of points. Since the purpose of this system is to help you build exactly the character you want, before starting to customize your ability scores, first decide what you want your character’s race (Chapter 3), class (Chapter 4), and theme to be. Once you’ve got those firmly in mind, follow the steps below in order.

Step 1: Start with a score of 10 in each ability. On your character sheet or a piece of scratch paper, write down all six abilities—Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma—and put a 10 next to each of them.

Step 2: Add and subtract points for race. Races are often naturally gifted in some abilities and less so in others. Each race entry lists these advantages and disadvantages in terms of points you add or subtract from specific starting ability scores; you can also look at Table 2–2 to see all the racial advantages and disadvantages at a glance. For instance, a shirren starts out with +2 points in Constitution and +2 points in Wisdom, but –2 points in Charisma (meaning you’d add 2 points to your starting Constitution and Wisdom scores, but subtract 2 from your starting Charisma score). Some races, like humans, are so versatile as a race that they get points they can put in any single ability. Once you know your racial modifiers, add or subtract those points from your starting scores of 10.

Step 3: Add points for theme. Each theme gives you a single ability point to apply to an ability score. For instance, choosing the ace pilot theme gives you +1 point in Dexterity, while the themeless option lets you apply an extra point to any ability score you choose. The points granted by each theme can be found in its description or on Table 2–2. Once you know your theme, add that point to the designated ability.

Step 4: Spend 10 points customizing your scores. Now that you’ve got your baseline scores, which incorporate modifications for class and theme, you get a pool of 10 extra points to assign to your ability scores as you see fit. You apply these to your existing ability scores on a 1-for-1 basis—if you have a Dexterity score of 12 and you add a point from your pool, you now have a Dexterity score of 13. You can divide these points up however you want, but you can’t make any individual score higher than 18. (Later on, as you level up and gain ability-boosting gear, your ability scores may rise above 18, but 18 is the highest value any character can start out with.) Be sure to spend all 10 of your ability points—you can’t save them for later.

Step 5: Record ability scores and ability modifiers. Once you’ve spent all your points, you’re done. Write your final ability scores in the appropriate boxes on your character sheet, then check Table 2–1 to find the corresponding ability modifier for each one, and write those down as well. Modifiers are explained in Ability Modifiers and Ability Checks.

Leveling Up:
LEVELING UP AND ABILITY SCORES
Every 5 levels (at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels), you get to increase and customize your ability scores. Each time you reach one of these level thresholds, choose four of your ability scores to increase. If that ability score is 17 or higher (excluding any ability increases from personal upgrades), it increases permanently by 1. If it’s 16 or lower, it increases permanently by 2. You can’t apply more than one of these increases to the same ability score at a given level, but unlike at 1st level, these increases can make your ability scores go higher than 18.

For example, let’s say you’re leveling up your android technomancer with the following scores:

Str 10, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 18, Wis 11, Cha 10

You might decide to increase your Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, and Wisdom. Because your Intelligence is 17 or higher, it would increase by 1 to a score of 19. The other three scores would increase by 2, giving you these final scores:

Str 10, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 19, Wis 13, Cha 10

The next time you can increase your ability scores, you could decide to increase those same abilities again, or you could pick a different subset.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber

Personally, I find Starfinder a superior rules system. Which makes sense, since they've had all the feedback over the years from Pathfinder players, and were able to adjust some of the [still] glaring problems with PF, like the action economy, opportunity attacks, haste and other OP spells that wanted to stay true to D&D tradition, full attack brokenness, pouncing, some tactical issues, adding more combat options like pulls, and the 1 dimensional AC/hp system (much prefer the Stamina/HP/Resolve system.) I admit my bias, having played D&D since 1978 and hundreds of tables in organized play and home play over the years, so maybe I like evolved new better than problems-old. But some things just don't work well in PF, and I'm glad they've addressed it. Now we'll see whether Starfinder can actually hold up over 20 levels, and scale properly.


Yeah, there are other Starfinder systems I like a lot, but I'm afraid they wouldn't translate to Pathfinder without creating a lot of unforeseen side-effects or creating a lot of work.

On the surface though, the stat system seems like it'd port right over and cause very few issues. I am a little worried that constitution is more valuable in Pathfinder than Starfinder, and that there aren't a lot of points to invest in that.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The thing I'd like to port over is the elimination of iterative attacks. I really hate them. I think they really bog down combat at moderate-to-high-level play.

I love the "anyone can make two attacks at any time" rule by taking a -4 penalty to both attacks.

Unfortunately, this becomes a math problem: Monsters at high level have a LOT of hp, and encounter design is predicated upon iterative attacks. I don't think simply imposing the SF rule into PF without making other adjustments would work well.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Haladir wrote:

The thing I'd like to port over is the elimination of iterative attacks. I really hate them. I think they really bog down combat at moderate-to-high-level play.

I love the "anyone can make two attacks at any time" rule by taking a -4 penalty to both attacks.

Unfortunately, this becomes a math problem: Monsters at high level have a LOT of hp, and encounter design is predicated upon iterative attacks. I don't think simply imposing the SF rule into PF without making other adjustments would work well.

The main problem here is that there is no easy and obvious way to make weapon damage scale as it does in Starfinder. The best way I can think of to handle that would be to give away the Vital Strike feat chain for free when appropriate BAB levels are reached and apply the bonus damage from those feats to all attacks, not just to attack actions.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
David knott 242 wrote:
Haladir wrote:

The thing I'd like to port over is the elimination of iterative attacks. I really hate them. I think they really bog down combat at moderate-to-high-level play.

I love the "anyone can make two attacks at any time" rule by taking a -4 penalty to both attacks.

Unfortunately, this becomes a math problem: Monsters at high level have a LOT of hp, and encounter design is predicated upon iterative attacks. I don't think simply imposing the SF rule into PF without making other adjustments would work well.

The main problem here is that there is no easy and obvious way to make weapon damage scale as it does in Starfinder. The best way I can think of to handle that would be to give away the Vital Strike feat chain for free when appropriate BAB levels are reached and apply the bonus damage from those feats to all attacks, not just to attack actions.

That's more-or-less what I was thinking.

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