GenCon Reporting Update


Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild

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Dark Archive ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Midwest

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Hey All,

Quick update regarding GenCon reporting. We are awaiting the special and the latest season of ACG to get added to the system. Once they are, we can begin reporting those events. Everything else should have been reported on site.

My understanding is that there is also a known database error with the reporting system in general. If you do not have credit for a specific scenario in the system, my assumption is that it is from this database error. Please do not report this as an error until we know the database is fixed and can confirm that the reporting is actually missing. I'm sure there will be a further update when that is completed and then you can submit any reporting errors through the normal channels after that.

Thanks!

Liberty's Edge * Venture-Lieutenant

When will emails that people have sent in be reviewed?

I have 3 tables not being report for Starfinder that is delaying my first Nova. Two of those are quest tables from Saturday and the special from Thursday.

Thank you for everyone's effort to get it resolved.

The Exchange *

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Thanks for the update!

I have two tables of GM credit missing 9-00 and my second run of SFS 1-00, and two tables of play credit, 9-01 and 8-12.

**** Venture-Lieutenant, Ohio—Cleveland aka GinoA

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Todd Morgan wrote:
If you do not have credit for a specific scenario in the system, my assumption is that it is from this database error. Please do not report this as an error until we know the database is fixed and can confirm that the reporting is actually missing.

****

Is this assumed to be completed now? I"m missing three tables of credit still. Who should this be reported too?

**

I'm still missing GM credit for the 9-00 special and several scenarios. Based on my recollection, it seems any table where I reported new PFS numbers (off of the cards).

Silver Crusade ****

As I mentioned in another thread yesterday, general concensus in my area seems to be that roughly half of Gen Con tables never got reported. I know that none of my tables (as a player or GM) were ever reported. A friend of mine GMed 8 tables, and only has half reported. I've heard similar from other friends.

The Exchange *

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

This was suppose to be corrected about 5 weeks ago, its now closer to 6 weeks since that original post so I guess its still "SOON"! lol

Liberty's Edge * Venture-Lieutenant

So now that it appears the updates have gone live can we turn our attention to missing table from GenCon 50?

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If they've gone live and all missing sessions are supposed to be populated I'm missing two from a local convention in November?

Liberty's Edge * Venture-Lieutenant

Gino Melone wrote:
Todd Morgan wrote:
If you do not have credit for a specific scenario in the system, my assumption is that it is from this database error. Please do not report this as an error until we know the database is fixed and can confirm that the reporting is actually missing.

So the question is now has all database errors been fixed?

Liberty's Edge * Venture-Lieutenant

Since all Gencon session has been reported, see this Missing Organized Play Session Reporting Thread to report any tables that you are missing, either as a player or as a GM.

**

Thanks for the link. Due to the way I browse, I would have missed it otherwise.

Dark Archive ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Midwest

All sessions have not been reported as of yet. There are still a couple that I'm waiting on entering until the database issues are resolved. Once all the issues are resolved and I've completed reporting, I'll post here. Only at that time should you use that form to send in an email with missing sessions.

Liberty's Edge * Venture-Lieutenant

Sorry, I guess I was under the false understanding that all tables had been reported from GenCon.


So, to confirm, we're still waiting on GenCon to be reported? I'm missing several sessions, of scenarios where I already have sessions present.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

I'm missing many tables, actually. 3 from GenCon50 alone. Plus another 5 that I've reported since then. I've got a tiny pile next to my computer here to enter once everything gets fixed, but I'd rather not enter them until I know they're actually doing to show up. I'm showing about 10-12 scenarios less than what I actually know I have. Have we seen an update on this yet?

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

GenCon has not been completed yet due to database errors. While many have been fixed, there are still more to be corrected before data entry can resume and missing tables can be accurately identified.

Liberty's Edge * Venture-Lieutenant

Adjurer wrote:
I'm missing many tables, actually. 3 from GenCon50 alone. Plus another 5 that I've reported since then. I've got a tiny pile next to my computer here to enter once everything gets fixed, but I'd rather not enter them until I know they're actually doing to show up. I'm showing about 10-12 scenarios less than what I actually know I have. Have we seen an update on this yet?

You should report the scenarios you are holding because, by all reports, the database problems has been fixed.

As TriOmegaZero said, GenCon 50 is not fully reported yet, or at least I have heard that it has been.

Paizo Employee ***** Organized Play Manager

Fixes to database were done in Dec, just before the holidays.

Todd Morgan is working on getting the outstanding sheets reported for Gen Con 50. As soon as he is done, he will post here/in other relevant threads.

Please put your games in and let us know if there are still issues. Without feedback, we cannot correct continuing issues.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

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Please put our games in where? Is there a form that we can fill out to let Todd know what is still missing? Or should we report them to PFS Reporting Errors now?

Since GenCon, I take a photo of every single reporting slip that I submit. Having half my games not get reported was very disheartening to me. On the one hand, I suppose it is good that I learned a lesson about how to maintain my own records. On the other... I really wish that I had not had to learn that lesson.

:/

Hmm

Liberty's Edge * Venture-Lieutenant

I beleive Tonya is talking about Adjurer holding reports on tables he has ran and not about GenCon.

Liberty's Edge * Venture-Lieutenant

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Can we get an update please?

The Exchange *

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Starfinder Charter Superscriber

If you guys need help, please reach out, I'm sure many of us would volunteer to assist with input/reporting. If its a technical error then just tell us. If you've misplaced or lost the sheets, then tell us that as well! At least then we would know that we were just out of luck or we could send our official schedules and have them entered from scratch.

Closure would be nice, one way or another.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

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Marc speaks my mind.

Hmm

Silver Crusade ****

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Yeah, I'm kinda wondering if my 4th star is ever going to show up, given that I've already GMed enough to earn it. Gen Con isn't even the only convention from last summer that has GM sessions that have never shown up for me. And since life is busy right now and I'm not GMing much any more, it'll probably be a month or two before I can run some more and get new credit to get me up to it.

**

So, I never got my Gencon pathfinder stuff reported. My starfinder game was, but not the pathfinder specials. I have the pages, but it's just me writing it in, so I'm not sure how I can use that? Sorry if I'm being slow to understand. >.<

Liberty's Edge * Venture-Lieutenant

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As long as you have the chronicles (pages) you have what you need. It is just nice to see it appear here as well.

I am confused a little bit. What do you mean by "I have the pages, but it's just me writing on it..."?

The Exchange *

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Matthais777,

Do you mean you have your GM chronicles for the games you ran at GenCon 50?

**

Yes, I have the GM chronicles, but as the GM, I'm the one who signed it after all, there isn't anything "Official" about it. I mean, I know I ran them, so I could just print out the sheets again, and fill it on in, but I wanted it to be official because my hope is to someday get my 5th GM star, and for that you need to run so many specials and different scenarios and things, and I want that to be recorded properly.

Dark Archive ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Midwest

GenCon Reporting isn't completed yet. I will post when it is completed.

Liberty's Edge * Venture-Lieutenant

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And still no information on why it is taking so long or the acceptance of the help that has been offered.

This has taken too long. Hopefully a fundamental review of this process is being conducted in order to improve it so the players and GMs never have to wait this long again. But I doubt it.

This is truly unacceptable.

Liberty's Edge * Venture-Lieutenant

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Just wanted to give an update.

I am still missing tables.

Thank you.

*** Venture-Lieutenant, Canada—Ontario—Ottawa aka Torch013

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Things I would like to see at GenCon 2018:
-Pathfinder Society Playtest (Very Likely)
-Pathfinder Society Specials (Very Likely)
-GenCon 2017 PFS & SFS having been reported (ehhhhhhh)

Joking aside, it's been long enough, I feel some sort of explanation isn't an unreasonable expectation now. I don't care if it's something as simple as "I've been busy", cuz yeah stuff happens in life. But we are 8 months past GenCon, and we haven't heard a peep in 2 months. Some sort of acknowledgement would likely make people less on edge about this, but it's like those in charge have buried their heads in the sand. Just step up, let us know you hear us and that you are working on it, it's really all I want at this point.

Silver Crusade ****

I've already given up. Not just on this. I've kinda given up on Paizo altogether recently.

This hobby has just about reached my limit on the number of minor annoyances I'm willing to put up with. Some of them aren't even Paizo's fault. This one definitely is, but it's also among the most minor.

But recently I'm playing less, GMing MUCH less, spending much less time here on the forums, and buying far fewer new products. I haven't reached the point of leaving the hobby or boycotting Paizo or anything like that, but I could see it happening if some other game grabbed my attention right now.

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

AFAIK, all reporting for Gen Con 2017 is complete. That is not to say all the errors are fixed, but all the known reporting sheets have been entered. Given all the system/database errors that seem to have been occuring last year, it is quite possible people have missing sessions. In that case, you are encouraged to email genconleads@gmail.com attention to Todd Morgan for resolution.

One of the things we are strongly encouraging GMs to do starting this year is take a photo of your completed reporting sheets before turning them in to HQ. In the case of your session being missing, it will be much easier for us to correct it after that fact. The fact of the matter is that we've found enough inconsistencies in claims of missing sessions that we cannot simply take the word of the reporter and add in missing sessions. In many cases, there has to be some level of verifiable documentation. Plus, by having the image of the reporting sheet, the information can be entered completely and accurately without question as to any of the details. Makes the process significantly easier to manage.

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

Paul Kekanovich wrote:

Things I would like to see at GenCon 2018:

-Pathfinder Society Playtest (Very Likely)
-Pathfinder Society Specials (Very Likely)
-GenCon 2017 PFS & SFS having been reported (ehhhhhhh)

Yes

Yes
Yes
:-D

*** ⦵⦵ Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

Bob, are you speaking off the cuff or do you have specific knowledge that reporting is complete? The last word from Todd in this thread is that reporting isn’t complete, and there hasn’t been a post or email stating otherwise yet.

Scarab Sages *****

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Bob Jonquet wrote:
The fact of the matter is that we've found enough inconsistencies in claims of missing sessions that we cannot simply take the word of the reporter and add in missing sessions.

Wow... People put in several 10's of hours of prep and GM'ing for Gen Con, and from what I'm seeing, a huge amount of events are not reported yet (or got lost in the big change or whatever) and the response is, "There's nothing to verify your report, so we can't do anything for you."

That's a big Screw You to the GMs, seriously. Just wow.

Silver Crusade ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Indiana—Bloomington aka CanisDirus

Tallow wrote:
That's a big Screw You to the GMs

Only if you conflate Bob's two separate statements.

Scarab Sages *****

Mike Bramnik wrote:
Tallow wrote:
That's a big Screw You to the GMs
Only if you conflate Bob's two separate statements.

Maybe, and I suppose I don't currently have a dog in this race, so I'll just leave this as my last comment on the issue.

But website issues with the changes, updates, etc. aside, which makes late reporting completely understandable, its a few months past when the new website became stable. Its 8 months past when Gen Con happened.

Bob is saying its all been reported. Todd has not indicated he has reported everything, but two months ago he said he had not yet and would let folks know when. And now Bob is saying something, that appears to be saying, GM's from Gen Con 2017 are just going to have to suck it up, that if they don't have hard proof they aren't going to get credit for those sessions.

If I'm misreading that, please disabuse me of that notion.

But this has been going on way too long. If Todd's private life is so busy that he can't get the reporting done, that's fine. Private priorities have to come first. But if that's the case, then he needs to hand it off to someone who will get it done.

This is getting ridiculous.

Grand Lodge ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Lakes aka TwilightKnight

Tallow wrote:
That's a big Screw You to the GMs, seriously. Just wow.

If taken out of context, sure, if you intentionally ignore the precursor being "we've found enough inconsistencies in claims of missing sessions." Meaning there have been enough requests for corrections when something was clearly off that at some point our responsibilities as stewards of the integrity of the data has to give us pause. Its no different than a VC fixing local reporting issues and finding a series of ones that just do not make sense for whatever reason. Its a balance you have to strike between blanket believing everything you are told and requiring provable documentation for everything. In some cases, the answer may be no, your reporting issue is not going to be resolved. As has been said numerous times, with respect to players, the chronicle sheet is the defining document and while it would be nice if the online reporting was 100% accurate, its probably not a reasonable expectation.

With respect to GMs, having a lot of empty tables in your record can be just as bad, if not worse, than some not being there at all. I'm sure that if the GM can provide enough reasonable information about a table they ran, Todd will fix it, but we've had players/GMs claim tables that simply did/could not have happened. Plus requests for reporting to be done that would not follow protocol. Like running a "pick up" game on Sunday night, never entering it into the event system, not getting the player roster and wanting us to report it as an empty table under the Gen Con umbrella. So, like I said, there is a lot more to it than simply saying "this table is missing" and Todd just going in and reporting it with blinders on.

Unless I am misinformed, all the reporting sheets have been entered. Now, that does not mean all the corrections have been made. So one persons "reporting complete" may be different than another's depending on your viewpoint. I know there are emails for issues that have not been addressed/resolved yet so if you are in the latter group, then I guess no, reporting is not complete.

Liberty's Edge * Venture-Lieutenant

Fromper wrote:

I've already given up. Not just on this. I've kinda given up on Paizo altogether recently.

This hobby has just about reached my limit on the number of minor annoyances I'm willing to put up with. Some of them aren't even Paizo's fault. This one definitely is, but it's also among the most minor.

But recently I'm playing less, GMing MUCH less, spending much less time here on the forums, and buying far fewer new products. I haven't reached the point of leaving the hobby or boycotting Paizo or anything like that, but I could see it happening if some other game grabbed my attention right now.

Greatly saddened to hear this.

Liberty's Edge * Venture-Lieutenant

Bob Jonquet wrote:
AFAIK, all reporting for Gen Con 2017 is complete. That is not to say all the errors are fixed, but all the known reporting sheets have been entered. Given all the system/database errors that seem to have been occuring last year, it is quite possible people have missing sessions. In that case, you are encouraged to email genconleads@gmail.com attention to Todd Morgan for resolution.

Bob, I did submit this requested information previously. I want to make sure that I should I submit again.

Thanks.

Silver Crusade ****

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Bob, are you even aware of how big this problem is? Every single person I know who attended Gen Con last year has given up on ever seeing their sessions reported here on the site. No exceptions. Some of them have seen maybe half of their sessions reported, but many of us (myself included) haven't seen a single one get reported.

We haven't bothered sending emails to complain about it, because this thread told us not to. The last update here was that it was still being worked on. Nobody has ever officially said "OK, we're done with what we know about. Let us know if we missed anything." And since none of us have pictures of the reporting sheets with all the player and GM numbers, most probably won't bother complaining, anyway, since we know there's nothing you can do about it.

But it does effect things. In my case, due to this and another convention from last summer never being reported, it took a couple of extra months to officially get my 4th star. There are some adventures that require 4 stars to GM, which I've been looking forward to being able to running. But at this point, my annoyance at the delays has dampened my enthusiasm to the point where I don't even want to bother any more.

I know this isn't your fault, and there's really nothing you can do. But showing up here to tell us that everything's supposedly reported, when we ALL know that it isn't, can best be described as tone deaf. Most of us would probably be fine with an apology from Paizo along the lines of "We goofed - sorry we'll never be able to report those sessions, since we don't have all the data". These things happen. We get it. It's the lack of official response that's more annoying than anything.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

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I have to agree with Fromper that this is a huge issue. I am missing four tables from GenCon. I didn’t mind that those tables went initially missing in a convention as big as GenCon. I do mind that no one stepped up to get our tables reported. I am also upset at the lack of information and the apparent lack of trust.

The care and feeding of volunteers is important. It doesn’t keep much to make us happy:

  • Communicate with us. Make us feel like you care and that we matter.
  • Trust us. Believe in us, and we’ll believe in you.
  • Acknowledge our work. Understand that these games aren’t just a blip for us, and that we worked hard to make GenCon awesome. I know that you folks in HQ worked your tails off, but for us who were on the floor, reporting these games is a form of acknowledgement.
  • Involve us in the process. Help us figure out how to report those tables, or let us help you come up with a solution.

When I asked if I could create a separate event to report those missing tables, I was told not to do so. I was also told not to email about this. But... this is so frustrating. We’re your GMs and we put our heart and souls into GenCon. I did six weeks of advance prep for that convention! I feel like the GenCon GMs like myself were let down. I feel like we weren’t trusted with anything — our testimony, progress reports from HQ, or any kind of feedback.

I love you, I love Todd, and I love Organized Play. But this issue specifically kept me from signing up as a GenCon GM until y’all dangled the Playtest in front of me. So I’m going back to GenCon and now I’m planning on photographing every reporting slip.

:/

When you’re on the “drive to five” as it were, every table that you miss is added stress, because you have to make it up elsewhere. In order to make up for what I missed from GenCon, I had to forgo opportunities to play and to explore Starfinder more. Like Fromper, those four games took a while to recoup. I’ve finally made my missing tables back, but I do feel like my efforts as a GM were undervalued.

More to the point: GenCon is the big show. It’s an incredibly exciting convention, but because of its unique stresses, it’s really hard on its GMs. You’ve told us that you can never get enough GMs, and that you had to cut back on 7-slot hotel assignments because you don’t get enough GMs. This is important, because if reliable GMs like Fromper, Gary and myself get fed up, we may decide to bypass GenCon the next time it comes around. I almost did — but curiosity about the Playtest proved irresistible, and so I’m giving it another shot.

I know you’re worried about false tables being reported — but that isn’t the real problem. So you might have 1 or 2 sketchy GMs who report more than they actually did. (Given that there were some no show GMs who got their boon and t-shirt and then never showed up, I understand the concern.) But it’s better to trust everyone than to punish the legions of GMs who put in a full convention’s worth of work feel abandoned and let down.

By the way, this post is written because I love Organized Play and want GenCon to thrive. I’m not trying to tear you down... Rather I want you to be awesome. Please understand this, and take this criticism in that light.

Hmm

PS At this point, I’d even accept the apology that Fromper suggested, along the lines of, “We goofed up.”

Dark Archive ***** Venture-Captain, Minnesota—Minneapolis aka Silbeg

Bob Jonquet wrote:
AFAIK, all reporting for Gen Con 2017 is complete. That is not to say all the errors are fixed, but all the known reporting sheets have been entered. Given all the system/database errors that seem to have been occuring last year, it is quite possible people have missing sessions. In that case, you are encouraged to email genconleads@gmail.com attention to Todd Morgan for resolution.

I have sent an email.

Personally, it doesn't matter to me that much, though it did delay my first Nova showing up until after SkålCon, since three SFS scenarios are still missing, but I sent the email for completeness. I am missing 4 scenarios (1 PFS, 3SFS). Oddly, 9-00 was reporting against GenCon 2016 for me!

Unfortunately, I do not have photographic evidence, but this will be something will try not to omit next year.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

More thoughts, because this is bugging me so much it set off my OCD.

I have one missing table — the Starfinder Special, Claim to Salvation — that had a number of witnesses that I can name. VA Kate Baker and VC Mike Bramnik were there as players. Linda came by to say hello, making the rounds of all the tables playing that night. John Compton came by, and with raised eyebrows, uttered the phrase, “Hilary. I have to ask. Wasabi... SOAP?” I’m sure he remembers, since that isn’t the sort of phrase one utters often.

This is one missing table that I might even be able to get names of 5 out of 6 of the players, as it was privately mustered by Mike Bramnik.

We all witnessed each other in the room. Although Gary was across the hall from me, I borrowed maps from him, so I saw how busy his quest tables were. I kept passing by Jack’s table, which was full in every slot. Everyone had neighbors. Is there any way we can set up a system where we can vouch for each other, or am I being naiive here?

Maybe I am being naiive... In my case, it’s easy to garner witnesses. I’m female and so stood out. Still, there’s got to be a way that we can help each other out here.

Hmm

Dark Archive ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Midwest

As the person responsible for entering the sheets this year (as well as most all previous years) I do regret that this is taking awhile. Rest assured I am almost finished as the only events left to report are the ACG and some of the PFS special. If the reasons for the delay are important I’ll gladly share them, suffice to say it was a combination of not starting entry until after the new year due to the database issues and the holidays. In the past I had used my remaining vacation after gencon to finish entry but that was not feasible this yea (again database)

It does concern me that people are reporting more than the pfs special missing from their records, as everything up to that point had been completed.

For this years gencon, as long as all the scenarios are loaded into the reporting database, all entry should be completed on site. If you want to email the gencon leads email at this time with reporting errors, I’ll get to those when I finish the special. If you choose to email genconleads, please include all relevant information about the slot.

Silver Crusade ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Indiana—Bloomington aka CanisDirus

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One thing Todd didn't say in his post above (but that I'm aware of him saying in private) was another reason that he waited for the site issues to be completely resolved before starting data entry. The thought of reporting everything with the specter of a DB glitch wiping it all away and forcing him to do it a second time? Yea - you would have seen something in the news about a naked man painted goblin-green burning down his house and dancing wildly in the streets! :P

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