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Looking for feedback on my first kineticist build


Advice


So I just finished building my first kineticst build and would like some feedback as far as any pros and cons of the current build, and any suggestions you might have. He's currently in my back pocket meaning he's not active yet, but if (when) my current character dies I plan on pulling out this guy.

Lvl 13 Half-Orc Pyrokineticist

Basic Stats

Ability Scores

  • Strength-12 (1)
  • Dexterity-17 (+3)
  • Constitution- 22/28 (+6/+9)
  • Intelligence- 12 (+1)
  • Wisdom- 15/17 (+2/+3)
  • Charisma- 9 (-1)

HP-184
AC- 34
Touch AC- 15
Saves- Fort +21, Ref +15, Will +11
Initiative- +9
Speed- 20
BAB- +9

Kineticist Skills, Abilities, Etc

Elemental Focus- Fire
Expanded Element- Fire (infusion)
Kinetic Blast- Fire Blast
Composite Blast- Blue Flame Blast
Infusions- Extended Range, Flurry of Blasts, Snake, Kinetic Blade (one-handed weapon), Burning Infusion (DC 25), Grappling +24, Wall (9 rounds)
Utility Wild Talents- Fire's Fury, Ride the Blast, Flame Jet, Flame Jet (Greater), Smoke Storm (6 rounds, DC 22), Firesight

Feats- Armor Proficiency Heavy, Armor Proficiency Medium, Improved Critical (Kineticist Blast), Improved Initiative, Kinetic Invocation, Shield Proficiency, Weapon Focus (Kineticist Blast)

Traits- Dangerously Curious, Reactionary, Sacred Tattoo (alternate racial trait)

Weapons
Blue Flame Blast- +13 Ranged Touch, 14d6+8 fire, 19-20/x2
Fire Blast0 +13 Ranged Touch, 7d6+8 fire, 19-20/x2

Armor
+3 mithral heavy steel shield, +5 mithral full plate

Magic Items
belt of might constitution +6, bracers of armor +3, cloak of resistance +3, headband of inspired wisdom +2, ring of protection +2

There's a good chance that I'll reach at least level 14 before I begin using this kineticist, which will give me an additional 45k gold to start out with. I currently 28.5k gold unspent on the character as is. What would be the best way to use that gold?

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

What are you hoping to do with Flurry of Blasts? Just set multiple foes on fire? Or are you planning on picking up another substance infusion to make it more useful?


Honestly I went ahead and grabbed it without fully understanding it. But as I look back at the infusion my understanding is that each blast would in essence only deal 1d6 fire damage, but if I attack the same creature with multiple blasts from the flurry, that creature takes a penalty to their saving through if one is required. Right now I'm planning on taking the aether expanded element at 15 unless there's a better option

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah, you will get 1d6+4 for fire simple Blast or 2d6+4 with Blue Flame Blast, plus overflow if any, neither of which are going to be impressive at 13th level. Each extra blast on the same target only adds 1d6.

Flurry is probably best used to debuff with substance infusions, of which your Burning Infusion will apply, and Flash would be another one that you can use to try and land Blindness on enemies (if you pick it up, which may be better option over Firesight).

Another thing to watch for is that you are dealing only fire damage with this build. A lot of enemies are resistant or immune to fire, even more so depending on the adventure. Compounding with the fire resistance, you are also only dealing energy damage and so spell resistance will be an issue too and you have no physical blast to get around it.

What is your plan of action against fire immune or high spell resistance creatures?

You may want to consider a new element at 7th and then go back to fire at 15th. Nothing you have requires only Blue Flame Blast and BFB will be more useful at 14th level when you can get Pure Flame Infusion.

If you pick up air, then you will have access to flight instead of your Flame Jets. Personally though I like the idea of Flame Jets much more from a fun coolness factor and would go with water or earth which will open up some new substance infusions (for use with or without flurry), give you a physical blast, and add some more cool themes with fire.

I should add that I am by no means an optimizer though and so if that is what you are looking for, then I am sure others will have some advice more along those lines.


You're missing three VERY important feats to every kineticist; Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Weapon Finesse.

I'm really not seeing why all the focus on heavy armor and shield?? If you want to make a melee kineticist, then you should just take the Kinetic Knight archetype and do the job a thousand times better. Especially since it appears you're focusing on melee territory and your attack isn't going to be very good with your low Strength. Yes, it's touch attacks, but your build is kind of all over the place.

What exactly is the build you're going for?

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Also, why the Bracers of Armor with the Full Plate? You aren't getting the armor bonus from the bracers while wearing the full plate and your AC should actually be 31 unless I am missing something.

Another thing is with the shield you won't be able to Gather Power without dropping or stowing it so you'll be taking a lot of burn or be dropping your shield.

Which finally leads to, why all the armor? You've got 3 feats and a lot of money in armor bonus here. If you are wanting to zip around and kinetic blade things, that's cool. You will want to drop the shield and feat though so you can Gather Power though ( I would think).

Another option would be mithral breastplate and more Dex stuff. PB shot and Precise shot are general staples of a blasting kineticist.

Good luck!


I didn't realize the bracers of armor didn't stack with my armor. I was trying to keep my AC in the low to mid 30's so that I don't get slapped around all over the place. I guess I'd be ok if I could keep my AC no lower than like 28-29. I could drop the heavy and maybe even medium armor proficiencies for PB shot and and precise shot. I could even dip 1 level into swashbuckler and take the unhinderig shield feat and just use a buckler.


Remember you get bonuses to dex and con from overflow.

I would also highly suggest getting a belt of physical perfection instead of just constitutio. to increase dex. This will also increase AC and most importantly to hit.

Elvish mithral chain shirt is light and will get you plus 6 armor as well as keeping full movement speed


Once I hit lvl 14 I'll have the gold for physical perfection +6


I mean physical might, you don't really need strength for anything.

a +4/+4 will give +2 to hit, +2 ac and don't forget dexterity will govern the DC of infusions, not con, also cheaper than a +6.

Also take the feat extra talent for elemental whispers instead of improved iniative, you can get a summonable at will familiar that gives +4 iniative along with other bonuses, better in every way.


Okay so problems I'm seeing with this build

1) you have no way of bypassing SR
2) You've invested in shields when you need a free hand
3) you've invested in heavy armor when you don't need to, to get good AC

Solution, first 7 levels fire, at which point expand into water and take the physical blasts. You still get a composite blast and you can choose to bypass SR but target normal AC or deal with SR and target Touch.

You can also take the extra defensive wild talent to take the water and you get a shield bonus to AC.

Next you need to take

PBS, Precise Shot and Weapon finesse and invest way more in DEX. Then wear a Celestial chain shirt.

Swap the con belt for physical might +4 +4 and put your +4 from elemental overflow into Dex and your dex should be somewhere around 25, if you can try and push your Dex to 18 so that its 26. By level 14 you count as a level 10 for the water shroud meaning with burn invested. Which you will invest to active elemental overflow, you can have a +6 shield bonus to Dex.

Purchase a Celestial chain shirt now your AC before applying a Ring of protection, Amulet of natural armor and a dusky rose prism is 31.
10 + 8 Dex + 7 armor + 6 shield. With a +2 Ring, Amulet and the Ioun Stone you'll have 36 AC. I'm pretty sure that leaves you with plenty of cash for a cloak and honestly Kineticists don't need anything else.

You'll also have effective melee options through through kinetic blade and weapon finesse, take kinetic whip and combat reflexives for extra fun.


A light shield(gather power is not a weapon so you're good to go) or a buckler will leave that hand free too. You can drop the shield if you're going Water like Chromatic suggested since you can use the defense for a shield bonus.


it also allows for a higher bonus without having to pay for an enhancement bonus, and has a higher ceiling.

EDIT: Also you need something to spend some overflow on so it may as well be this.

Aether and Earth both have powerful defensive talents, although they don't enhance AC, which seems to be your main concern.


If you want to stick with the heavy armor, shield toting character, go for the Kinetic Knight archetype. You'll get the armor and shield proficiencies for free, and can use those feats for other things (like Combat Reflexes and Extra Wild Talent). You'll also get kinetic blade for free at 0 burn cost in exchange for not being able to have a standard Kinetic Blast. You also get the other Kinetic Blade based infusions for free at certain levels.

Otherwise, definitely drop the heavy and medium armor proficiencies, as well as shield proficiencies, in order to pick up Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Weapon Finesse. The base Kineticist shines more as a lightly armored skirmisher as opposed to a heavily armored warrior or ranged blaster. I'm not a fan of Flurry of Blasts unless I'm fighting a lot of weak opponents, and I'd swap it for Kinetic Whip and Improved Initiative or Improved Critical for Combat Reflexes to get reach AoOs.

Unless you rolled your stats, I'd lower your Strength to 10 and your base Wisdom to 14. 10 Strength will help you avoid running into carrying capacity issues, and the Wisdom because having the odd number versus the even number isn't doing anything for you modifier-wise, and all of your level up ability points should be going into Constitution. That frees up 4 additional points in Point Buy, which you can use to pump your Dexterity to 18 as a base.

Chromantic Durgon and others have basically said everything else I would, so I'll make one last point.

Celestial Armor will cost you 22,400 gp for a total of +17 AC (with +8 Dex Modifier). Your armor and shield are costing you 45,520 gp for +19 AC. That's over twice as much for a +2 AC difference. An Amulet of natural armor +2 is 8,000 gp, which means 30,400 gp for the same amount of AC as your armor and shield. It's a more cost-efficient use of resources for you to go lighter, and I'd recommend it.


+you're much less likely to drown or full off a cliff in celestial chain shirt.


Those are also good points.

I almost forgot, you may want to swap Dangerously Curious for Pragmatic Activator, so you don't have to use your low Charisma for UMD.


I am also trying a pyrokineticist and I was very confused at first. Here is the guide I used to learn the class. I am not sure about not needing Precise Shot, but it is worth a try.


Alright, so I've made some changes to my character largely based on the feedback I've received thus far (and thank you very much, by the way). I've gone ahead and set the starting level to 14 seeing as how I'm pretty sure I'll level up during our next session this Sunday. So here's the new (and hopefully improved) kineticist.

Level 14
Half-orc Kineticist 13/ Swashbuckler 1

Basic Stats

Ability Scores-
Strength- 12 (+1)
Dexterity- 23 (+6)
Constitution- 28 (+9)
Intelligence- 12 (+1)
Wisdom- 17 (+3)
Charisma- 9 (-1)

HP- 208
AC- 34
Touch AC- 18

Saves- Fort +21, Ref +20, Will +11
Initiative- +16
Speed- 30
BAB- +10
CMB- +11
CMD- 29

Kineticist Skills, Abilities, Etc.
Elemental Focus- Fire, Expanded Element- Aether
Fire and Telekinetic blasts, Aetheric boost
Infusions- Extended Range, Snake, Kinetic Blade, Burning Infusion, Foe throw, Eruption
Utility Wild talents- Ride the Blast, Smoke Storm, Firesight, Telekinetic Invisibility, Elemental Whispers, Elemental Whispers, Greater
Arctic Hare Familiar (+4 initiative when w/in 1 mile)

Swashbuckler Skills, Abilities, Etc.
Deeds- Derring-Do, Dodging Panache, Opportunity Parry and Riposte
Panache
Swashbuckler Finesse (pretty much same as weapon finesse)
Buckler Proficiency

Feats
Improved Critical (kinetic blast), Improved Initiative, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Shield Focus (Buckler), Unhindering Shield, Weapon Focus (kinetic blast)

Traits
Reactionary
Sacred Tattoo(alternate racial trait)
*still have 1 trait slot open*

Weapons
Fire Blast- +17 touch, 7d6+8 fire, 19-20/x2
Telekinetic Blast- +17, 7d6+16, 19-20/x2

Armor
+5 Mithral Buckler
Celestial Armor

Magic Items
Belt of Physical Might +6 (Dex, Con)
Cloak of resistance +3
Headband of Inspired Wisdom +2
Ring of Protection +2

I still have 25k gold leftover which I might hold onto and save for either a ring of protection +5 or cloak or resistance +5


Questions

1) What is the swash dip for exactly?
2) Why did you choose Aether?

Shadow Lodge

Swashbuckler Finesse doesn't work with the fire blast since it's not a piercing weapon.


Weirdo wrote:
Swashbuckler Finesse doesn't work with the fire blast since it's not a piercing weapon.

That's not nc


Weirdo wrote:
Swashbuckler Finesse doesn't work with the fire blast since it's not a piercing weapon.

However it does work with the telekinetic blast. Now if I open up the blue flame composite blast then I won't be able to utilize the Swashbuckler's Finesse.

And the Swashbuckler level gives me both Swashbuckler's Finesse and specifically buckler proficiency which I need to open up unhindering shield, which allows my shield hand to be considered free for the purposes of casting spells, wielding weapons, and using any other abilities that require you to have a free hand or interact with your shield. This is beneficial especially for the gather power ability.


Did the nerf-ratta Gather Power to not work with Bucklers? They specifically leave your hand open, which is all GP requires.


Blasts are ranged attacks, they automatically use Dex to hit. You don't need Swashbuckler's finesse for that.


Weapon Finesse can be useful with Kinetic Blade and Kinetic Whip, but I think that spending a feat is way better than dipping a level.

As for the shield, a masterwork buckler has no armor check penalties. I also think that you can Gather Power with it (losing the shield bonus that turn, of course). Not 100% sure about it, though.


Gather Power is not an attack. I don't see why you'd lose the buckler's bonus.


What are you using for Opportune Parry and Riposte? Kinetic blade only lasts for the duration of your turn - you can't use it for making AoOs, which means I'm not sure what you're using for that.

Honestly, I think you're better off dropping Swashbuckler for another level of Kineticist and using your level 14 Utility Wild Talent to grab Expanded Defense so you can use the Aether defense talent, which is one of Aether's best options. This also gets you Infusion Specialization 4, which lets you ignore 4 points of Burn on the total infusions you apply to a blast wild talent.

Dalindra and Azten are correct about being able to use a masterwork buckler to gather power and avoid any armor check penalty. Swap Unhindering Shield for Weapon Finesse, and Shield Focus for Extra Wild Talent to pick up more utility talents. Based on your infusion choices, your infusions while fighting in melee will never exceed 4, so you won't have to Gather Power and possibly lose the buckler's bonus to AC, and at range it should be less of an issue.

Azten, you also lose the buckler's bonus to AC if you cast a spell with somatic components using that arm. I could see a GM ruling that Gather Power works similarly to casting a spell with somatic components and denying the buckler's AC bonus on the round Gather Power is used. YMMV.


Oh yeah, weapon finesse is good for Kineticists, but you don't need a Swashbuckler level for that.

The feat is definitely worth it I'd take it at level 5 or 3 on a human.


Alright, I think I've finally worked everything out and feel like I have a pretty solid build, but I might still be overlooking some things.

Level 14 Half-Orc Kineticist

Basic Stats

Strength- 12 (+1)
Dexterity- 23 (+6)
Constitution- 28 (+9)
Intelligence- 12 (+1)
Wisdom- 17 (+3)
Charisma- 9 (-1)

HP- 220
AC- 33
Saves- Fort +22, Ref +19, Will +12
Initiative- +16

Kineticist Skills, Abilities, Etc
Elements- Fire (focus), Earth (expanded)
Blasts- Fire, Earth
Composite blasts- Magma
Infusions- Extended Range, Kinetic Blade, Burning Infusion (DC 26), Eruption (DC 23), Kinetic Whip, Entangling Infusion (DC 26)
Utility Wild Talents- Ride the Blast, Smoke Storm (7 rounds, DC 22), Firesight, Elemental Whispers, Elemental Whispers (Greater), Expanded Defense (Flesh of Stone), Fire's Fury

Feats
Elemental Focus (fire), Greater Elemental Focus (fire), Improved Crit (Kineticist Blast), Improved Initialive, Toughness, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Kinetic Blast)

Traits
Indomitable Faith, Reactionary, Sacred Tattoo (alternate racial trait)

Weapons
Earth Blast- +17 7d6+16, 19-20/x2
Fire Blast- +17 Touch, 7d6+8, 19-20/x2
Magma Blast- +17 14d6+27, 1/2 fire, 1/2 bludgeoning, 19-20/x2

Armor
+5 mithral buckler, Celestial Armor

Magic Items
Belt of physical might +6 (Dex, Con), Cloak of Resistance +3, Headband of Inspired Wisdom +2, Ring of Protection +2

I realize that some people will bring up the fact that I don't have PB shot and precise shot. But because I have kinetic blade, kinetic whip, and eruption infusions I have plenty of options to make attacks within 30 feet.


Okay a few minor things

1) You have kinetic whip, you should get combat reflexes to take advantage of all those attacks people will be provoking. Probably drop Greater Elemental focus for now.
2) You spent 8000 on a +2 ring, you could spend 9000K on a +1 Ring, +1 Amulet and a Dusty Rose Prism for 3AC instead of two.
3) Your to hit is kinda low, although I guess you aren't including Elemental overflow in that stat block? With 5 points invested you have between 22 and 23 to hit depending on if you put the 4 into con or dex. So not too bad. Doing so through your Flesh to stone you can get to DR9 (4 without investment form burn) I believe thats correct, since you count as 4 levels lower for your second element. May be wrong though.
4) You should probably buy a cracked Pale Green Prism boost your to hit and saves by 1.


You're right about the stat block not including elemental overflow. I currently have DR 7 sonitnwould only cost 3 burn to get to DR 10. Also, I thought about adding combat reflexes, but decided against it because I don't plan on being a primary melee attacker plus I think I'll get more utility out of the increased DC. I still have 25k gold to spend, I just wasn't sure what Inwas going to spend it on yet.


Actually what I said about counting as 4 levels lower is wrong. Ignore that

My workings out ads up to 6 DR not 7 at level 13. 7 at 14.

But that is irrelevant. You just need to find room to invest 5 burn to top off your Elemental overflow. Which you can do whether its 6 or 7. It just means you end up with 11 or 12 DR after building up elemental overflow.

As for money
You can get a +2 to your AC from a +1 Amulet of natural armor and a +1 Ring of protection for 4000 grand cheaper than just buying a +2 ring.

I'd also suggest a Dusty rose prism and cracked pale green prism but that bit about the amulet and the ring is really bugging me xD

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