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A few weeks in. Munchkins yet?


Starfinder General Discussion

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3 people marked this as a favorite.

Hey hey some of them prefer the term mathematically advantaged.


I prefer these.


Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
I prefer these.

Oh see now I need the 90's Simpsons referatron to properly express my feelings on that.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
I prefer these.

Nice one rysky nice one


^w^

Thankies, they're sooooooo good.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

The have jelly munchkins now ? ... must ... resist ... urge ...


The Mad Comrade wrote:
The have jelly munchkins now ? ... must ... resist ... urge ...

Yuuuuuuuuus.

They are so yummy.


baggageboy wrote:
It does work RAW and that's the problem. You could also take a 350cr battery out of a 7cr comm and sell it for 35cr by RAW creating infinite wealth...

Are you sure that these items come with a battery from the store?

Maybe it is a batteries not included situation.


If I'm not mistaken there's a thing about all powered items coming with a full charge.

Liberty's Edge

To quote the book:

Starfinder Core Rulebook, p. 218 wrote:
If an item doesn't specify a usage, it needs very little power and has an internal battery designed to function for decades or even centuries without recharging. Items with a specified usage use a battery that comes fully charged when purchased.

Sadly, this second sentence includes Comm Units. And it goes on to say these batteries are removable and replaceable with those listed under ammo.

Now, Comm Units are literally the only thing this system breaks down in regards to, and indeed it wouldn't break down at all if they had a capacity of 20 rather than 80, but RAW there's a distinct problem here.


There are still other places where the system is broken, just not as badly. For instance, a pulsecaster rifle costs 100cr, but comes with a battery that would cost 330cr so, rather than pay to have my pulscaster rifle recharges at a cost of 165cr, I'll toss it and buy a new one. Or if I just want a fully charged battery not the gun, I'll buy the gun pull the battery and then leave it on the side of the road. No it's not infinite wealth, but it is still definitely a problem.

Liberty's Edge

baggageboy wrote:
There are still other places where the system is broken, just not as badly. For instance, a pulsecaster rifle costs 100cr, but comes with a battery that would cost 330cr so, rather than pay to have my pulscaster rifle recharges at a cost of 165cr, I'll toss it and buy a new one. Or if I just want a fully charged battery not the gun, I'll buy the gun pull the battery and then leave it on the side of the road. No it's not infinite wealth, but it is still definitely a problem.

I'm pretty sure that one's just a straight up typo, though. Of course, the comm unit might well be a typo as well. Honestly, that's probably what's going in my House Rules document.


A side note, a GM in Europe after hearing about the Stam/HP idea has added a cup to his game.
If you want to be healed at any time you can pay 1/2 to 5 euro (depending on damage, place in adventure, etc) and be fully healed.

Very munchy, IMHO.
MDC


Munchy yes, but lucrative if you're the GM...


Deadmanwalking wrote:

To quote the book:

Starfinder Core Rulebook, p. 218 wrote:
If an item doesn't specify a usage, it needs very little power and has an internal battery designed to function for decades or even centuries without recharging. Items with a specified usage use a battery that comes fully charged when purchased.

Sadly, this second sentence includes Comm Units. And it goes on to say these batteries are removable and replaceable with those listed under ammo.

Now, Comm Units are literally the only thing this system breaks down in regards to, and indeed it wouldn't break down at all if they had a capacity of 20 rather than 80, but RAW there's a distinct problem here.

Comm Units do not use ammunition batteries because they are computers:

Self-Charging Page 216 wrote:
While most computers can operate for up to 24 hours on internal batteries ...
Comm Unit page 218 wrote:
A personal comm unit is pocket-sized device that combines a minor portable computer (treat as a tier-0 computer ...

The Exchange

Deadmanwalking wrote:

To quote the book:

Starfinder Core Rulebook, p. 218 wrote:
If an item doesn't specify a usage, it needs very little power and has an internal battery designed to function for decades or even centuries without recharging. Items with a specified usage use a battery that comes fully charged when purchased.

Sadly, this second sentence includes Comm Units. And it goes on to say these batteries are removable and replaceable with those listed under ammo.

Now, Comm Units are literally the only thing this system breaks down in regards to, and indeed it wouldn't break down at all if they had a capacity of 20 rather than 80, but RAW there's a distinct problem here.

Now, while it says You can place weapon energy packs into other items like Comms etc, it doesnt say you can do the reverse.

It's quite likely that weapons require overpowered specialty cells for building the charge required to create emittable damage. These things can charge mundane items, but it's an expensive way of doing so.

For it to work for weapons, it would have to say that energy packs from common devices are interchangeable too. Which I haven't found to be the case yet.

Edit - sigh, I just did read the section on charges in batteries and it certainly reads like they can be swapped between them. Oh well, I'll be limiting it to recharging or buying ammo specific cells.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I like what GURPS did re: power cells.
There are two kinds like we're used to now: non-rechargeable, and rechargeable. Rechargeable power cells/batteries are what Starfinder already has. Non-rechargeable power cells/batteries hold twice the juice and are spent upon being discharged - they cannot be recharged.

GURPS also classifies them in much the same way we now classify batteries from the store: AAA up to E as I recall, holding correspondingly greater amounts of power at greater cost and weight. To operate various classifications of weaponry it is excruciatingly unlikely to need anything less than a B-cell, most use C cells with the superlatively nasty weapons requiring D or E cells.

Then they have a design-your-own-weapon element too. My favorite was a multi-barreled "Gatling pistol" that ran off a 9-volt battery firing itty bitty .22 pistol rounds from a helical-feed magazine. The rounds didn't do a lot of damage or go terribly far ... but it was sure gratifying to hose the bad guys down with a couple-hundred rounds of .22 hollowpoints whilst the other characters got into position to put 'em down. Each magazine held - I want to say about 100 rounds - whilst the battery could fire several magazines' worth before it was depleted.

Good times. Off-topic I admit, but good times.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
I prefer these.

you and your Reasons to call you mistress of temptation...

(yeah I know delayed response... sometimes these things come to me late I'm getting old :P)


2 Coppers Worth wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

The main thing I have seen so far is people buying flashlights and trying to use their batteries as ammunition for powered weapons.

And why would this not work RAW?

Nothing States that the included batteries can be removed or used generally. You may plug in a general battery to give a device more charge but nothing says that ejects the possibly internal battery it comes with.

Think smart phones that you can plug other batteries into.

Silver Crusade

While everyone is worrying about comm unit batteries my character is running around with a Sarcesian Tactical Sniper Rifle XD

More seriously, though: Munchkins are not really a product of the system. Some people will always manage to misinterpret and break systems regardless of how well they're put together; some people are just like that.


Nono, system design can absolutely encourage or discourage the presence of rule benders and point counters.

I feel Starfinder, atm, strikes a good balance in giving combos and options without having run away leader syndrome.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

In my opinion, no one needs "Munchkins", just by the word's connotation and general definition; however, every group can benefit from a Rules Lawyer who possesses an ounce of courtesy. That's the guy/girl to whom you appeal when you need a spot-instant ruling on how something should work, or guidance for something that doesn't have a clear ruling.

As to the original question, I've only played one game, second game is tonight, so we'll see. We do have one guy in our group who we always joke is the reason that 5 of our 6 pages of house rules for Pathfinder exist. :D

Shadow Lodge

simplygnome wrote:

Nono, system design can absolutely encourage or discourage the presence of rule benders and point counters.

I feel Starfinder, atm, strikes a good balance in giving combos and options without having run away leader syndrome.

What are the extremes? What systems fall into the "heavily encourage munchkins" end of the spectrum, and what systems fall into the "heavily discourage munchkins" end?

Silver Crusade

simplygnome wrote:

Nono, system design can absolutely encourage or discourage the presence of rule benders and point counters.

I feel Starfinder, atm, strikes a good balance in giving combos and options without having run away leader syndrome.

I mean, maybe? But in the end people who bend rules are going to bend them.

That's not to say that it isn't nice to have a system with concise, clearly defined rules with few edge cases. Its just that even in a good rules system there will be gaps. And those gaps will be exploited. That's the fault of the players exploiting them.

So looking for "munchkins" to gauge the quality of the system is probably not a good measure, since you'll end up finding them no matter how good it is. And I'd argue you'd find a similar percentage regardless of the quality of the system. People who bend rules bend them. People who follow rules follow them. That's not the system, that's people.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Re: Batteries. From various forum posts, it sounds like the Starfinder team is aware of the issues arising on the subject. There will be Starfinder Society rulings soon, and I'm guessing a later general Errata / Clarification.

Paizo Employee Customer Service Manager

1 person marked this as a favorite.

If you are going to have this thread, do not argue about specific rules in here. If you need to discuss if you think a rule has potential to be abused or variations on that type of debate, please take it to another thread.

Grand Lodge

sara marie but isn't the whole point of this post to find crazy ways to abuse the system so that dms can learn of it early before hand? that way we are not "dazed" by them trying it.

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