The All-New, All-Marvel Thread Vol. 1


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The Exchange

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Now that Secret Empire has mostly been finished, it's time to go back to a more including format (technically, the old SE thread still included stuff from all the other Marvel offerings, too, but still the title pointed at SE as the main topic). We might have to deal with the repercussions of the last Big Event, but in time the focus will shift away from it, especially with Legacy looming at the horizon.

Not sure if Thomas will still be doing his weekly summaries (sure hope so), but that shouldn't stop anyone else to chime in to comment on anything going on in the wider Marvel Universe (probably better to exclude TV series and movies as they have their own threads in the respective board sections). Today seems a good starting point, as a new batch of Marvel comics has been released. And while I haven't read any of those, I can at least give you the list of what we have to expect this week:

All-New Guardians of the Galaxy #9
Astonishing X-Men #3
Black Bolt #5
Champions #12
Daredevil #26
Generation X #6
Generations Iron Man and Ironheart #1
Hawkeye #10
Iceman #5
Inhumans Once and Future Kings #2
Iron Fist #7
Jessica Jones #12
Journey to Star Wars The Last Jedi Captain Phasma #1
Royals #7
Spider-Man #20
Spider-Man Deadpool #21
Star Wars darth Vader #5
Star Wars rogue One Adaptation #6
Venomverse #1
Venomverse War Stories #1
X-Men Gold #11

As far as I'm concerned, in my neverending and ever failing quest to keep and catch up with all the series, I certainly plan to read those comics I bolded above. Might already take up all the time I have for it, but if I'm lucky enough I might finally start to read up on Jessica Jones and or the Spider-man series. We'll see how that goes.


Yes I will do my summaries/commentaries as long as there's a new thread to play with. Especially one I don't have to start.

The Exchange

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so, first impressions of what I read today:

Astonishing X-Men #3

What a great issue. It's (nearly) all about Logan, starting with a great cover citing the „evolution of man“ images we probably all grew up with. Love how he uses all the pain, all the history he's gone through to will-power through the Shadow King's illusion. Well, up until he meets Xavier that is. I'm very intrigued to see how they solve this mystery, as I still don't believe that it's the real Professor X, but also have problems to imagine him as another figment of Ahmad's imagination.

Also, Angel is absolutely hilarious, and would have nearly been successful, if not for what happens on the last panels, that turn this issue totally on its head.

X-Men Gold #11

Call me cheesy but one of the things that really attracted me to the X-men when I learned about them as a kid was the romance between Piotr and Kitty. So to have those two issues (#10 and #11) that basically serve just as an excuse to bring them together again made me a happy reader. Now I want to have the same for Pete and MJ (would prefer Gwen Stacy but as she seems to be one of the few characters that stay dead, I'll settle for the next-best option :D). But I digress and apart from the romantic stuff, I loved how they put the fight scenes between Logan and Red Omega and Colossus and creepy russian would-be wizard together and let them culminate in nearly identical panels.

Generation X #6

This series is kinda hit and miss for me. I like the characters and I like the stories told about them, but the artists chosen so far certainly don't belong to my favorites. And that's the nice way to put it. I mean what made Kade Kilgore scary was that he was just looking like a nice little boy, that did the most atrocious actions. He's still atrocious, I'll give him that, but in this comic he looks more like the love-child of Kingpin and the Penguin. With a weird whig on his head. But who cares, as long as it gives Kid Omega the opportunity to go from annoying to ass-kicking (at least I hope that will happen next issue, because in this issue, he's mostly annoying as usual; the scene with Idie was heart-breaking though.) .


Due to the fact I had other committments, I'm a little late in my usual "Commentaries/Summaries" But thankfully, I have time now! ;) So yes, here is my "Let's help sort out stuff on Marvel with spoilers so that Delightful and Free don't feel left out!"

For starters since SE is basically over, I'll skip over any thing that is SE related...but honestly even the one billed as such...wasn't.

So first then is Generations Spoilers!
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Spoiler:
This one was undoubtedly the weirdest one I've read. (And considering we've had TWO Jean Greys intersecting at different times, that's kind of saying something!) Mostly we get to see A future Tony Stark and much of the Marvel Comics U in some nebulous distant future. I'm with Riri about being weirded out but at the same time I feel like since we encountered the Next Avengers (which some of us apparently need to watch again I guess), this might just be a tangentially timeline for RiRi. The biggest take away? Even though Tony does magic, he's clearly still an engineer. Which I guess makes sense. Also much like RiRi, I too felt like I heard about Doom and Tony's travel to Arthurian past too many times. But at least beating us over the head with it and then telling us "The future can be the same thing in the present!" is kind of...neat? Oh and Franklin Richards shows up too.

That's it for Generations. On to Non-Mutant Spoilers!
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Spoiler:
So in retrospect, I should have seen this one coming too. Much like I missed Mesphisto in Infamous Iron Man, the fact ANOTHER Elder of the Universe shows up...shouldn't be that surprising. But it was. Basically we get to see his machinations using Groot's remains. Oh and Mojo is now implanting spy cams in people. Thanks girls!

Black Bolt gives us a little more insight into the history between BB and Lockjaw. That coupled with BB doing right by this former fellow inmates shows...I dunno something maybe. Mostly it's just a chance to see The Absorbing Man and the rest try to figure out how to beat up some Jailer that might have been the first prisoner. It's really unclear what it all is.

Champions shows us that even being moody, Cyclops is better as the straight man. I mean I guess that's the lesson in some way. Mostly it was just seeing Cyclops and the rest blow off a little steam while fighting Psycho-Man and his need for...batteries I guess? Anyways, I don't see the aftermath tie-in. But whatever. At least in this issue, I don't hate Cho. He shows some brain power.

Daredevil takes us back from legal warfare to plain old adventure to save former partner from the Hand. Maybe. I mean I'm guessing the Hand some how corrupted Blindspot/Sam Chung. We'll see if Matt can fix this. I am glad he's back in his old costume though.

Hawkeye (the good one!) clearly is going off on slight Clone Conspiracy, as Madam Masque uses a clone to...go have a party? I guess when you've worn a mask all your life, a new face means party on down. Of course we all realize quickly that's not Kate, but we do get to see what "lovely' digs MM left for Katie. Oh and Katie gets a heart to heart with Dad at the end. Cliffhanger!

Inhumans Once and Future Kings continues with our trio of Inhumans that are now in NYC for...reasons I guess. I'm not sure where this storyline is going but I am at least intrigued by seeing young versions of prominent characters trying to figure out life in NYC. Oh and Karnak isn't quite the dick he is in present.

Iron Fist picks up from the last part of the storyline, IE him nearly getting killed by some guy that has psychic mind control/battle mind powers. I had hoped Shang-Chi was faking, but no. So..this didn't do much for my enjoyment. But eh. We'll see how the next one goes as Sabretooth is joining up. Again, for the record, I think Shang-Chi could kick Danny's butt.

Jessica Jones finishes out the arc about Maria Hill's past and what it all means. (It doesn't mean ANYTHING other than Hill had issues and her father's ability to be a jerk pretty much mean crap.) Good cameo though from Cassie Lang though. I wish they hadn't made her so...teenager-ery though. Eh. Oh and of course, Kilgrave is apparently on the loose. Sad.

Royals continues both the future odyssey of Maximus, the last Inhuman, and the Royals trying to figure out what the Skyspears mean. Of course they get side tracked by the fact the Power Pack's alien enemy is seeking to build their own empire with powers. Not good. Hopefully though they'll get past this because I REALLY want to know more about Skyspears. Oh and apparently they don't hurt Kree. At least not when you don't THROW them into it.

Spiderman/Deadpool team up isn't there anymore but honestly who could blame Spidey after all the crap he went through from the LAST bits. I really am beginning to HATE this title.

Spider-man 20 shows us that when something happens in both Iron Man's past and Peter's, it might come back to bother Miles too! Miles goes on sabbical (sort of) to see if he needs to be more than just a kid in high school. (Spoiler alert Miles! You are a kid!) He runs into not ONLY the Goblin Nation gang, but Tomoe, the Inhuman Techno-Golem that flummoxed Tony Stark before CWII put him out to pasture...sort of. So now we'll see what it all means.

I'm lumping Edge of the Venomverse: War Stories and Venomverse together since they're REALLY not that interesting by themselves. Not even sure together they do much but it's better than doing reviews/commentary/spoiler summaries separately. So with Edge, we get three Vignetes about Venom bonding with three different people. Honestly of the three, Nagozi would be the one I'd like to see more of. Venomized Doom, Venomized Rocket (who appears in the main series too) and Vemonized Frank Castle aren't much to enjoy. Though I will admit, I enjoyed Rocket's version of Captain America. (Go Carol!) The main series see more exposition about the threat faced by the Venoms (Who honestly I don't get WHY they need Brock when they have some serious power) But I guess when you have to fight Hulk who's symbiote has been overtaken by the Poisons, that's the best you can hope for. Oh and Pete's back in black in this one too. Until he's not. Yeah apparently Poisons EAT their hosts. The hosts aren't there/there but I'm guessing they have access to all their stuff. It's not clear really. Honestly I thought once I read the main series I would like this more...and while some alternate Venoms are nice...it's not enough to make me want to keep reading.

Thus ends our Non-Mutant Spoilers! On to the Mutant Spoilers!
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Spoiler:
While I think Wormy has done some great reviews, I'll toss in a few cents worth here and there. Along with giving the low down on Iceman's title fight with Juggernaut.

Much like Wormy, I'm continually impressed by Astonishing characters, the story and the overall plot. Old Man Logan isn't Wolverine but the same time, he's still the best there is. Just too bad Xavier can be more powerful. I loved Angel's reaction to being shot and almost going full Archangel. But the fact he tried to be peaceful about speaks volumes about Warren's own struggles. No question, Farouk/Shadow King is the villain the X-men need more of.

Also like Wormy, Generations to me about the lesser X-men characters that have come along in the past 10-15 years. Along with Jubilee and Chamber, we now have Indie (who I always adored) and Quentin's relationship (or lack of one) coupled with a super villain plot that I honestly don't care about. The art, as he noted, did make question if that was truly Kade Kilgore (the boy I'd toss of a bridge in a heart beat) or some mutated version. But eh.

Iceman's fight with Juggernaut wasn't what I expected. Mostly because as someone else review, HOW THE HELL CAN ICEMAN FREEZE LIGHT?! Even the SPEED Of LIGHT?! That was huge problem for me. That and him going vapor...not a fan. But overall, it was a by the numbers fight for Juggy and Iceman. I also STILL cannot believe Bobby's parents. I mean this is 2017 folks! Gay and mutant is pretty much it's own sport. But I guess bigotry doesn't penetrate some people.

X-men Gold finishes out the fight with Omega Red and like Wormy said, there was some nice cross over between that fight and the one Piotr had with his Uncle trying to save his sister. Now I guess we'll see if Piotro and Kitty can stick around. (Lord knows I want them to!)

So that's it for me! Until next week! (which might be later than Friday folks!) But hang in there!


From the outside -- I abandoned Marvel many years ago, even before I gave up on DC -- it appears that lately the House of Ideas has been trying to out-DC DC, what with merging the Ultimate and 616 universes, later merging multiple universes into one in Secret Wars, the resulting multiverse cross-pollination, including having multiple versions of several heroes coexisting afterward*, taking a little side trek into a Cosmic Cube induced alternate reality, then more heroes meeting their counterparts via time travel in Generations, and...whatever is supposed to be happening with Legacy. Almost all one right on top of another.

Anything that returns to "my" classic Marvel sounds like something I may want to look at, and Avengers 1,000,000 BC sounds potentially interesting, but they've apparently spread the story across 53 titles, not one of which I've been reading. So...yeah. Sigh.

*I seriously hate that Thor is no longer a personal name, but a title.

The Exchange

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Damon Griffin wrote:
*I seriously hate that Thor is no longer a personal name, but a title.

Mee, too, but still I think Jane Foster as female Thor is an awesome character and the story around it is a hell of a ride.

I agree to a point about Marvel trying to out-DC DC; it's obvious that after new 52, Rebirth was very successful for them, so I can imagine Marvel trying kind of the same stunt to revive their brand.

Difference being that a lot of the new 52 titles simply sucked, so they really had to do something about it, while contrary to that, a lot of the Marvel titles (especially those with "diversity" characters) were actually really good, only that the so-called fans couldn't live with the fact that something new was added and their beloved "classic Marvel" characters were put on ice for a while. As said in my first sentence, I can relate to that, but I still commend Marvel for trying something new, and no matter what they do with Legacy, I really hope that Miles, Khamala, "new" Iceman and co. will stick around.

by the way:

Iceman #5

Wow, that was powerful stuff. Had to read up on that series and the first issues seemed a bit lackluster, but in hindsight they served as the perfect setup for this last issue. And Thomas, I really agree with you about how the world should be. But unluckily it isn't and even in 2017, children have sometimes to deal with even worse reactions when they tell their parents that their sexuality is not what it's "supposed" to be. So this issue ends on a real hopeful note, because when Daddy Iceman, after all the hard times he gave Bobby, still can admit he was wrong and say "I love you", maybe this mess of a world CAN become a better place in the future.

And as far as him going vapor... I'm not sure if he did that before but in this issue, I guess it just served to setup the dialogue between him and his dad, and apart from that, I liked that formerly "meakly" Iceman can go one on one against Juggie.


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WormysQueue wrote:
Damon Griffin wrote:
*I seriously hate that Thor is no longer a personal name, but a title.

Mee, too, but still I think Jane Foster as female Thor is an awesome character and the story around it is a hell of a ride.

I agree to a point about Marvel trying to out-DC DC; it's obvious that after new 52, Rebirth was very successful for them, so I can imagine Marvel trying kind of the same stunt to revive their brand.

Difference being that a lot of the new 52 titles simply sucked, so they really had to do something about it, while contrary to that, a lot of the Marvel titles (especially those with "diversity" characters) were actually really good, only that the so-called fans couldn't live with the fact that something new was added and their beloved "classic Marvel" characters were put on ice for a while. As said in my first sentence, I can relate to that, but I still commend Marvel for trying something new, and no matter what they do with Legacy, I really hope that Miles, Khamala, "new" Iceman and co. will stick around.

I'm not quite sure about that motivation. Wasn't the Incursion storyline that led up to Secret Wars well underway before Rebirth?

I do wish they'd slow down with the big Events and let titles carry on with their own storylines more often. That said, things like Generations still work - the stories are separate and basically self-contained. Linked by theme and concept, not by an actual plotline.


Incursion / Secret Wars may have predated Rebirth, but Rebirth isn't where DC's frequently recurring "alter reality waves" began. That goes back at least as far as Flashpoint and perhaps as far back as Infinite Crisis; before that the shakeups weren't quite so frequent.

I agree with thejeff that Big Events should come less frequently so that the individual titles can develop on their own, but my main gripe is that it feels like almost every Big Event lately in some what alters previously established reality or continuity, or merges previously separate -- often previously unknown -- universes or timelines.

Big Events can -- and should, generally speaking -- have long term consequences, but they can do so without throwing the entire comic multiverse and its multiple timelines into a blender.

Along the same lines, any real level of racial/cultural diversity in comics is long overdue, but it's really hamfisted to suddenly and more or less simultaneously insert new young/diverse versions of Atom, Iron Man, Hulk, Ms. Marvel and others to eclipse their classic counterparts and try and achieve diversity overnight. Do we need Kamala Khan as a superhero? Yes. Do we need her to be Ms. Marvel? I don't think so. Give her her own hero name rather than recycle someone else's,

If we still have Peter Parker, do we really need Miles Morales as Spiderman? I don't see it. If Parker hangs up the webs for several years, sure, Miles can take over. When Parker comes back, Morales ought to at least alter his costume and make a name change, a la Scarlet Spider, Red Robin or Kid Flash. (No, I agree, Kid Spiderman is a dumb name.)


Damon Griffin wrote:

Incursion / Secret Wars may have predated Rebirth, but Rebirth isn't where DC's frequently recurring "alter reality waves" began. That goes back at least as far as Flashpoint and perhaps as far back as Infinite Crisis; before that the shakeups weren't quite so frequent.

I agree with thejeff that Big Events should come less frequently so that the individual titles can develop on their own, but my main gripe is that it feels like almost every Big Event lately in some what alters previously established reality or continuity, or merges previously separate -- often previously unknown -- universes or timelines.

Big Events can -- and should, generally speaking -- have long term consequences, but they can do so without throwing the entire comic multiverse and its multiple timelines into a blender.

Along the same lines, any real level of racial/cultural diversity in comics is long overdue, but it's really hamfisted to suddenly and more or less simultaneously insert new young/diverse versions of Atom, Iron Man, Hulk, Ms. Marvel and others to eclipse their classic counterparts and try and achieve diversity overnight. Do we need Kamala Khan as a superhero? Yes. Do we need her to be Ms. Marvel? I don't think so. Give her her own hero name rather than recycle someone else's,

If we still have Peter Parker, do we really need Miles Morales as Spiderman? I don't see it. If Parker hangs up the webs for several years, sure, Miles can take over. When Parker comes back, Morales ought to at least alter his costume and make a name change, a la Scarlet Spider, Red Robin or Kid Flash. (No, I agree, Kid Spiderman is a dumb name.)

Well, "Ms. Marvel" was a name that had been out of use for a long time before Kamala took it, right? Ms. Marvel->Binary->Warbird->Captain Marvel. Or did she go back to Ms, before switching to Captain? And it was a recycled name for her as well.

And Miles is a weird case, since he was a replacement for a dead Spider-man in the Ultimate Universe, but he'd established himself as such before the merge happened. I haven't been following either closely enough to know how any of that makes sense in the new merged universe.

In all honesty though, it's mostly marketing. "Riri Williams, replacement Iron Man with <i>Iron Man</i> as the comic title", sells far better then "Riri Williams, completely new character in a title no one's ever heard of". Despite any backlash, it's still far more effective. Maybe if the character gets a following under a known title, they spin off and keep a book going when the orginal comes back, but even that's hard.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

I think Carol went back to Ms. Marvel for a bit before switching to Captain Marvel, but at the time Kamala picked up the name, no one was using it, so I don't really see the issue. Personally, I think it's perfect for Kamala, since it fits her whole fangirl thing (her nerdlove for Carol and the Avengers being one of my favorite things about her).

As for Miles, I'd rather he keep going by Spider-Man, like he was in his world, than pick up some weird/dumb/forgettable alternate name just because he's now in the same universe as Pete. He's Spider-Man. Pete is also Spider-Man. I can tell them apart. It's not a big deal.

I'm on Marvel Unlimited, so I'm 6 months behind what's being published, but it's a helluva lot cheaper than reading books as they come out.


I'm pretty much a set-in-my-ways grognard. I prefer my comic characters to be completely unique individuals, and for me that doesn't happen when you switch from Thor, the Hulk, the Spiderman, the Sorcerer Supreme, the Wolverine, to a Thor, a Hulk, a Spiderman, a Sorcerer Supreme, a Wolverine -- even if I can distinguish Odinson from Volstagg from Jane Foster from Beta Ray Bill from Throg, Bruce Banner from Amadeus Cho, Peter Parker from Miles Morales, Stephen Strange from all those other Sorcerers Supreme, Logan from Old Man Logan, etc.

These characters shouldn't be their own fledgling Green Lantern Corps. You can have dozens of spider-themed characters without having two called Spiderman.

Jane, Bill, Volstagg and Throg (so long as they be worthy to wield the hammer) can all be "thunderers" and possess the power of Thor. But they shouldn't all be "Thors." Pretty much all the others are just sharing a superhero ID name, but co-opting Thor's personal name is a rainbow bridge too far.

I'm fine with heroes passing the mantle. If Tony Stark isn't going to be Iron Man for an indefinite period, no reason why Riri Williams shouldn't take on that role for a while. Both of them active at the same time, operating under the same name...I don't like it. How many Captain Americas have there been over the decades? Seven or so? But how many at once? Never more than one.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Bad example: For a while there they had at least three Captains America kicking around in the present day: Sam Wilson, Steve Rogers, and Roberta Mendez (a Captain America from an alternate 2099). Granted, one ended up being secretly evil, and another mostly stuck to Spider-Man 2099's book, but still, it counts! :)

As a side-note, Riri actually goes by Ironheart, they just kept the title of the book as "Invincible Iron Man".


Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

Bad example: For a while there they had at least three Captains America kicking around in the present day: Sam Wilson, Steve Rogers, and Roberta Mendez (a Captain America from an alternate 2099). Granted, one ended up being secretly evil, and another mostly stuck to Spider-Man 2099's book, but still, it counts! :)

As a side-note, Riri actually goes by Ironheart, they just kept the title of the book as "Invincible Iron Man".

OTOH, isn't Doom going by Iron Man now - or is he also just in an Iron Man book?

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

In the issues I've read, he's really only adopted Stark's aesthetic and hero role, but I don't recall him actually calling himself Iron Man.

That said, the book is called Iron Man, and he's obviously making an effort to look the part, so maybe that counts? I'm also six months behind, so maybe someone else has more insight.


Alright to clarify, Doom did decide to play Iron Man but 100% sure he's calling himself that. He is trying to take over Tony's role as Iron Man so there's some room for that. Meanwhile Riri ISN'T Iron Man. She's Iron HEART. So while there is no Iron Man (that Tony approved of) there is an Iron Heart he approved.

Benchak,

If you need more info on stuff you missed, read the previous thread that I worked on. It had PLENTY of stuff to keep you interested. I hope.

Anyways;

Carol did go back to being Ms Marvel BEFORE she took up the Captain mantle. So Kamala taking Ms Marvel isn't something she did on a whim. (Plus the fact she DID change into Carol for a bit.) As for three Captains, there's actually been 4 at one time. Danielle Cage came back to assist the US Avengers (aka American Idea Mechanics) when one of her villains came back in time. So there's precedent for more than one Cap at time. Same for Thor, there was Young (and still unworthy) Thor, Regular Thor and Old King Thor. Admittedly they are ALL Thor but they are Thor at different points.

Anyways that's just my random cents.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Alright to clarify, Doom did decide to play Iron Man but 100% sure he's calling himself that. He is trying to take over Tony's role as Iron Man so there's some room for that. Meanwhile Riri ISN'T Iron Man. She's Iron HEART. So while there is no Iron Man (that Tony approved of) there is an Iron Heart he approved.

Benchak,

If you need more info on stuff you missed, read the previous thread that I worked on. It had PLENTY of stuff to keep you interested. I hope.

Anyways;

Carol did go back to being Ms Marvel BEFORE she took up the Captain mantle. So Kamala taking Ms Marvel isn't something she did on a whim. (Plus the fact she DID change into Carol for a bit.) As for three Captains, there's actually been 4 at one time. Danielle Cage came back to assist the US Avengers (aka American Idea Mechanics) when one of her villains came back in time. So there's precedent for more than one Cap at time. Same for Thor, there was Young (and still unworthy) Thor, Regular Thor and Old King Thor. Admittedly they are ALL Thor but they are Thor at different points.

Anyways that's just my random cents.

I thought about mentioning Danielle Cage, but I wasn't sure if she was sticking around after the first few issues of U.S. Avengers. I kind of hope she does, I like her. (I also loved the New Avengers run that lead into that book--AIM as good guys is kind of delightful.)

I might peek in on the other thread, but mostly I'm enjoying reading along on Unlimited, so I don't mind being a bit behind. Thanks for the heads up though!


Benchak,

I offered because much like I do on this thread, I do spoilers on that thread too. But cool.

Yes I hope Danielle Cage shows up again soon.

The Exchange

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Damon Griffin wrote:
I'm pretty much a set-in-my-ways grognard. I prefer my comic characters to be completely unique individuals, and for me that doesn't happen when you switch from Thor, the Hulk, the Spiderman, the Sorcerer Supreme, the Wolverine, to a Thor, a Hulk, a Spiderman, a Sorcerer Supreme, a Wolverine -- even if I can distinguish Odinson from Volstagg from Jane Foster from Beta Ray Bill from Throg, Bruce Banner from Amadeus Cho, Peter Parker from Miles Morales, Stephen Strange from all those other Sorcerers Supreme, Logan from Old Man Logan, etc.

I do understand your point of view and used to share it some years ago, but in the meantime I've become more relaxed about it. Because what really keeps me engaged with the Marvel Universe isn't all the superpowers, but it's the characters behind the mask. I remember when I started reading Marvel comics I couldn't stand Spider-Man like at all. What really happened was that I couldn't stand Peter Parker. That has totally changed in the meantime, but not because of anything Spidey was doing, but because I finally understood what Peter is all about.

From this perspective, having Miles Morales as a second, new Spider-Man doesn't change anything, because the only thing he shares with Peter is what ultimatively is the least important part about both characters.

I do agree partly about that "Thor being a title" thing, though, because to me that's the equivalent of making Abeir-Toril suddenly into two different planets. But even if I disklike the change, I still tremendously like the stories told with it,and that's, in the end, why I read comics.

The Exchange

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So, new week and a batch of new comics. Not sure if anyone has use for those lists, but I'll insert it nonetheless (but feel free to tell me if that just wastes your time scrolling down the thread):

All-New Wolverine #24
Amazing Spider-Man #32
Ben Reilly Scarlet Spider #7
Deadpool #36
Defenders #5
Doctor Strange and the Sorcerers Supreme #12
Generations Captain Marvel and Captain Mar-Vell #1
Gwenpool #20
Hulk #10
Marvel Guardians of the Galaxy #22
Ms. Marvel #22
Old man Logan #28
Rocket #5
Runaways #1
Secret Empire Omega #1
Secret warriors #6
Star Wars #36
Star Wars Doctor Aphra #12
Vision Director's Cut #4
Unbeatable Squirrel Girl #24
Uncanny Avengers #27
Venomverse #2
Weapon X #8
X-Men Blue #11
Zombies Assemble 2 #2

What I won't do is embarass myself again by bolding the comics I plan to read and then fail miserably doing so. ^^

What I did read and didn't comment on was last week's Iron Fist #7, which I read together with #6. And while I'm a big fan of Shang-Chi, I somehow felt a bit dissapointed because those issues didn't too much to advance the story (ok, we learn that Danny is still targeted by Choshin). It's all about the fight, and while I've seen other people appreciate it for that, I think it's a step back from the high-octane storytelling we got in the first five issues.

Ok, on to the new and naturally the first thing I read was Secret Empire: Omega, the conclusion to the last Big Summer Event. I liked the setup of the story, whith old cap visiting Hydra-Cap to get conclusion for himself. I like how the dialogue is connected with scenes from all around the world (especially the one that implies, that a certain person might not be as dead as it looks like). But what I reall like about it that it make two things perfectly clear: While seemingly defeated, Hydra might come out of this even stronger than before, because now they have found a new purpose (taking back the world that was stolen from them), and second that author Neil Spencer doesn't allow the world to pretend to have no repsonsibility for what happens. Hydracap didn't take the position by brute force, no, he was chosen and begged to do so. He also makes a great point about how easily people went from living their normal lifes to full Hydra support. As a German, I know something about that, and that makes this issue's message very powerful (and given the state of the world, deeply depressing) to me.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

There are the ones I got. Haven't read all of them yet.

All-New Wolverine #24 - Gabby's healing factor is really slow. Love the ending.
Amazing Spider-Man #32
Defenders #5
Generations Captain Marvel and Captain Mar-Vell #1 - Was Mar-Vell always that condescending?
Hulk #10 - Mean and Gray
Marvel Guardians of the Galaxy #22
Rocket #5
Runaways #1 - That is one way to bring someone back.
Star Wars #36 - Not too remarkable... Just kidding Artoo is a badass!
Star Wars Doctor Aphra #12 - Wonder if she is Force sensitive? She has an uncanny knack for getting out of trouble?
Uncanny Avengers #27 - Nice TKO.
Venomverse #2 - So-So. Could have been better
X-Men Blue #11 - I liked the thoughts of the various villains.


I'll post my thoughts/commentary/spoilers a little later on tonight, but I will agree with one thing that Wormy said, Omega leaves a lot on the table for the future of both Captain America and Hydra.


Again due to commitments that kept me from the internets, I'm posting my spoilers/summaries/commentaries a little later than usual. That being said, I do appreciate others offering their own 0.02 cents for this thread. But since Delightful and Freehold seem to prefer what I bring (at least...I assume so!), we're back to me doing what I do best:
Bringing out the spoilers while Wormy plays catch up!

So without further ado, SE spoilers! (yes I know it's over but it's kind of not!)
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Spoiler:

So honestly Omega itself is kind all over the map, but then so was this entire mini-series/event. Much of what we can expect in the aftermath (Captain America trying to repair his image, HydraCap unrepentant, and even Hydra itself revitalized by the idea of a new Secret Empire), falls into various places. Mostly we see that while the event is over, the repercussions, the deaths (at least two of them anyway) and the overall ideals of what the future for humans should be like in a world filled with super human threats (is freedom best or strength better?) still a thing that we'll never get resolved. I feel like Nick Spencer didn't redeem anything or even try to fix things. It's just what he wrote and it's going to stay with us until some kind of redemption is made and people see that fascism, while strong initially, cannot truly abide in the long term. I mean if nothing else, I doubt HYDRA Avengers could have handled much of what the Ultimates had to handle while the planetary shield was up. So...yeah. One thing further is the idea that's been playing in my head. We REALLY don't know who is really Steve Rogers..or even if there's one true Steve any more. Just a thought...

Deadpool is clearly the most damaged by this event, even moreso than Steve Rogers. He's lost his family, his dreams of being a hero and the belief that he can change to be better. So burning it all down? Yeah. It makes sense. I still feel bad for him though.

Secret Warriors continues with Daisy in the shadows hunting for clues as to who killed Coulson. (Spoiler! She finds out!) Mean time the rest of the "Warriors" are going on their own paths that don't seem to converge that much. I mean other than Inferno and Moon Girl talking, Karnak showing up to try to be dick and Dark Beast kidnapping, there's not much tying the team together. It's mostly just snippets or semi-vignettes while Daisy figures out who to kill.
(Good cameos by both Taskmaster AND Bullseye though. Also glad to see Task's new costume carry over from Spider-men II.)

Admittedly I could put Uncanny Avengers in this summary/spoiler, but it really didn't tie itself well to post SE. So it goes in a separate place. Generations! Well now....
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Spoiler:
This one didn't impress me much as the others. Then again it felt a tad...off in places to see Mar-vell be kind of a chauvinistic jerk. At the same time though, you can see how Carol can and does rely on Mar-vell's wisdom and insight to perhaps help reshape her own worldview, even in the face of fight the unholy terror of Annihilus. Mostly I'm waiting for something that's as good as "The Best" was with some smattering weirdness like we saw in Phoenix. We'll see how it goes with the next one with Kamala and Caroel.

So now we move back to our NON-Generation/Non-Legacy/Non-SE, Non-Mutant spoilers (lots of Nons I know!)
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Spoiler:
I guess it must be a pre-requisite or something that some villain that normally has science as their sthick finds magic. I mean that's the only thing I can come up with in Amazing Spider-man as Norman Osborn attempts to be the Sorcerer Goblin. Which of course doesn't work out. But hey at least he's not giving up trying to be Green Goblin! So there's that. Also I'm glad the magic community realizes Norman Osborn shouldn't have magic.

So in Ben Reilly the Scarlet Spider, apparently Death gets bored a lot. I mean first she's helping Thane kill and/or replace Thanos as the biggest jerk of them all. NOW she's here, semi-helping while also being coyly cryptic about Ben Reilly's fate. I guess when you've been in Marlo Chandler's body/person/whatever, it beats going around as robed skeleton. Oh and we get some greater insights on her views on her relationships with Thanos and Deadpool. Plus Kaine and the girl live! Also nice RPG joke about revolving door in Heaven.

Defenders does a decent job of showing us that the NYC underworld isn't as solid as "Wilson Fisk comes in and cleans house." Mostly I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop on Diamondback. That and I don't want Black Cat dead. She's better as she is right now.

Doctor Strange and the Sorcerers Supreme finishes it run with two of the characters joining Strange after helping the young version of the Ancient One get his immortality back. (That and Merlin does time travel) Plus cameos out the wazoo with various Sorcerer Supremes from past, presents and futures (alternate ones too!) Overall I liked this mini-series but I wouldn't say it wowed me that much.

Gwenpool continues the meta-ness as her evil future self uses her powers against future versions of Gwen's friends and of course Miles. It's still a headache to wrap your brain around but at least Gwen decides "Being a jerk isn't my bag." So yay for that.

Jen Walters continues to deal with her new Hulk side while dealing with the aftermath/fight with a guy that got Monster juiced. Mostly it's just Jen trying to figure out how badly the monster inside her is...and where her inner hero may or may not be. Props for Patsy still sticking by her.

Ms Marvel finishes her story arc with legal help along with civic pride helping to derail her enemies attempts to make Jersey City more like some weirdo-pseudo non-powered paradise. I feel bad for her friend, Josh, but considering who he teamed up with....not that bad. (God I hate Becky...)

Rocket continues the whole "Oceans 11 theme" racket with assists by Technet. Mostly I kept waiting for the pay off. So far it's not coming but I doubt Rocket is dead. (They can't kill him yet!)

Runaways starts their newest adventure with...not plot but certainly character appearances. I felt the most bad for Nico. After CWII, she lost something that I though she needed the most after Avengers Arena and that whole debacle. No clear idea where this story is headed, but at least we have three of the Runaways starting out. We'll see if this heads anywhere. (I HOPE!!)

Unbeatable Squirrel Girl continues with Ultron infused/controlled T-Rex trying to kill our girl. Like THAT would happen! More Squirrel girl!

Uncanny Avengers finishes its short story with Graviton as the team comes together to lay the smack back down on him. I loved the comradely between Wanda and Jericho. We'll see what secret the FF left. (Though why they didn't include Ben I dunno.)

Venomverse continues to underwhelm in terms of we really only get snippets of why the Poisons are bad. (I mean sure they clearly EAT their hosts. But other than that, and a Doctor Doom Poison, it's not like they're out to kill everything. I think) Major love to MJemon though as she deals with this Spider Poison. So...there's that.

That's it for non-mutant, Non-SE, Non-Generation, Non-Legacy stuff! On to MUTANT Spoilers!
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Spoiler:
So we end up getting a little clearer answers about why the Brood might have invaded. That and of course Gabby gets un-Queen Broodized. So yay. Oh and Rocket proves moral dilemmas don't bother him much. So back to Earth! (Weird they gave Jonathan a voice translator...but eh.)

Old Man Logan intersects his own past future with the Hulks and of course having Hawkeye there talking about Old Man's experience with older Hawkeye. Maestro continues to prove he's the better Hulk in terms of beating up other Hulks and getting them to nuke themselves. We'll see if Canada survives.

Weapon X deals with Hulkverine and of course the fact none of the members are ready to deal with something that was meant to kill mutants. Of course the fact the creature MIGHT have human conscience means we get the BETTER Wolverine to show up and hopefully fix this entire debacle.

X-men Blue is really three stories in one. One is clearly about Maddie and her need to not be lonely. (Plus you know do lots of black magic stuff) The other story is about the Hex-men and their own back stories. (Bloodstorm is still cooler than Colossus though not as neat as Pixie infused with Inferno stuff) The third part is about what Miss Sinister is up to and how that ties back to previous issues and of course Emma Frost's plan for mutants. Mostly I read this book and feel like "This is how Teen X-men in today's world would act...if only they had fewer brain cells at times."

So that's it for spoilers/summaries! If you have questions, you should write them out to God. Maybe. Anyways I hope you all have a good week!

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Anyone read Legacy #1 so far? It seems that not only

Spoiler:
THE Wolverine is about to return

but that also

Spoiler:
the FF and the Future Foundation will make their comeback

And I would have never thought that the second one would make me excited with joy while the first one would make me actually feel disappointed?!

There must be something wrong with my head.

Also Dr. Strange's Sanctum Sanctorum is probably the most hilarious character they ever invented. :D

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Spoiler:
I find it hard to believe Odin and Mjolner were around 1 million years ago.
Also, since when are the Phoenix Force and Agamotto native protectors of Earth?
Never jumped on the Wolverine band wagon, but I do like the character. Knew they would bring him back someday.
Was the Jean Grey who visited Wolverine's resting place an Amalgam of the Jean who died and the young Jean? Is that where her current solo book is leading up to?


To answer your question Charles:

YOUNG Jean is still the ONLY Jean Grey that 616/Prime Universe has. HOWEVER due to recent Jean Grey related events in her OWN mini-series, she is being haunted (or at least annoyed by) Jean Grey (her future, OUR PRESENT Day dead Jean Grey). So while the Jean Grey we see in Legacy isn't THE Jean Grey, it is Jean Grey the younger.

*shakes his fist at time travel*

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

"One thing further is the idea that's been playing in my head. We REALLY don't know who is really Steve Rogers..or even if there's one true Steve any more. Just a thought..."

As I understand it, Kobik corrupted history and turned the "real" Steve into Hydra-Steve, and hasn't changed that.

New Good-guy Steve is Kobik's impressions of the original Steve, given flesh by the power of the Cosmic Cube.

--

My question about all this: if I recall correctly, Hydra-Steve wanted the complete Cosmic Cube (all the pieces) because an incomplete Cosmic Cube (missing one piece) was a little girl Kobik, while the entire cube lost that personality and became subservient to the owner.

Anybody else think that Hydra Steve badly misunderstood the cube?

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Regarding Legacy, and the last handful of Generations comics: does it seem that a wave of '70s nostalgia is hitting the Marvel editorial crew? Does it seem like they also want to get back to "one Spider-Man, and that's Peter Parker," "one Hulk, and that's Bruce Banner," etc.


Chris,

No. I think they realized that each of these characters (even the ones that aren't Peter Parker and Bruce Banner) have their own voices that add to the character of the roles they've chosen. I wouldn't say we won't go backwards but I think there are some stories that are moving forwards. (IE Miles and Kamala for starters.)

As for Kobik...she's a magic wish cube. That's pretty much all we can be sure about.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:

To answer your question Charles:

YOUNG Jean is still the ONLY Jean Grey that 616/Prime Universe has. HOWEVER due to recent Jean Grey related events in her OWN mini-series, she is being haunted (or at least annoyed by) Jean Grey (her future, OUR PRESENT Day dead Jean Grey). So while the Jean Grey we see in Legacy isn't THE Jean Grey, it is Jean Grey the younger.

*shakes his fist at time travel*

What I meant is that I wonder if the two Jeans (younger and dead) have had a mind-fusion and now there is a more powerful young Jean with all the memories and added abilities of dead Jean.


Nope. That I can answer definitively. We have TWO Jeans, but so far only one of them is among the living...or the corporeal.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Okay, thanks.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

tries to breath some life into this thread

Dammit, now that Legacy has started, I got distracted by other things, so now I'm even more behind in my reading as usual. What I did read is:

All-New Wolverine #25

New storyline that'll bring Daken and Laura together. Someone has mutilated and kidnapped Daken and the trail leads to the place where Laura was brought up and in the end forced to kill her mother. Though the last panel puts a serious question mark to that.

Not sure if I like this, but as I have a lof of trust in the author, I'll wait how this plays out

Amazing Spider-man #789

Seems like the good(?)-old Parker luck has finally come back into his life. Everyone hates him and those who don't still don't get what he actually sacrificed during the Hydra-cap crisis, so Pete falls into a deep depression. Good thing that Bobby Morse is there to take him out of it.

This one really seems to go back to a more classic approach. Again, I'm not too sure about my thoughts about this, but with Dan Slott staying the writer, I simply can't imagine that this will anything else but an awesome ride.

Despicable Deadpool #1

I didn't follow the development of the merc with a mouth in recent years too much, so I was a bit surprised about the much darker approach to Deadpool in this comic. There's still hilariousness enough, but our protagonist seems to be much more serious about killing his target (which happens to be Cable), which makes me actually a bit more interested in following this comic than I would have thought before.

Falcon #1

Would have loved if Nick Spencer would have continued writing this character. But new writer Rodney Barnes seems intent to approach similar topics, just from a Falcon perspectives, so the haters will still hate, which is as it should be. In the first issue, Sam, together with his new protegé Rayshaun Lucas aka the (new) Patriot, tries to put an end to an ongoing gang war in Chicago. But bringing them together proves a fatal mistake, when the meeting gets sabotaged by the actions of Blackheart.

Apart from that I just started a (partial re-) read of the new Star Wars comics. I've probably read the first 6 issues five times now and I still think that the last panel of #6 (when Lord Vader just got the memo that the young pilot that destroyed the Death Star in SW IV listens to the name "Skywalker") is one of the most impressive moments in comic book history I've ever seen.


Sorry I haven't been adding to the thread Wormy, but I figured you'd need time anyway to catch up after Secret Empire. (We all do!)

Deadpool is kind of in a bad way because of Secret Empire. That plus being blackmailed by Cable's clone from alternate future....

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I didn't read secret empire, but I just heard they killed

Spoiler:
Black Widow?


Charles Scholz wrote:

I didn't read secret empire, but I just heard they killed

** spoiler omitted **

You don't need to put up the Spoiler tag Charles. Yes they killed BW, but apparently at the end of the Aftermath, she's alive or at least MIGHT be, because Bucky is chasing her down. For...reasons.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Went to Wikipedia and saw that.
Does he know there is another person going around with the BW name?
It might have been her.


Charles,

You mean Yelena? Possibly. But I think it still might be Natasha. The Marvel U has been through some weird crap lately.


@WormysQueue : If you have the time, start the Darth Vader comic written by Gillen. It is great for Vader alone, but he introduces some great new characters, too.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Charles,

You mean Yelena? Possibly. But I think it still might be Natasha. The Marvel U has been through some weird crap lately.

Too much if you ask me.

Doesn't Natasha have a form of the Super Soldier formula running thru her?
I think it was the same formula that was giving to Mockingbird when she almost died a few years ago.
If it is, it has amazing healing properties, so she could have recovered.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

I bought Falcon #1, hoping for good things.

The hell? Sam needed to go halfway across the country to deal with street violence? How does he even know about these gangs?

How does "Falcon is beating us up, so I think we ought to seriously consider his plan for peace" work? If it didn't, what was Plan B? (For that matter, what is Plan A? The two gangs are willing to hold a truce, but they're still criminals. They just won't be shooting at each other.)

Nothing in this issue makes sense.


Charles Scholz wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Charles,

You mean Yelena? Possibly. But I think it still might be Natasha. The Marvel U has been through some weird crap lately.

Too much if you ask me.

Doesn't Natasha have a form of the Super Soldier formula running thru her?
I think it was the same formula that was giving to Mockingbird when she almost died a few years ago.
If it is, it has amazing healing properties, so she could have recovered.

Mockingbird got a bit of a transfusion from Steve Rogers plus a bit from Nick Fury when she nearly died.

Natasha has a different variation (seeing as how's she's Russian), but yes.


Charles,

Yeah well hopefully some the weirdness will stop now that Secret Empire is over. *Reads the latest Marvel Solicits for January* Mutherfruker! *shakes his fist* You said no more events!

Anyways she might but again, since it's not been mentioned in a while, I'm thinking maybe Spencer and the rest forgot or glossed over it. I mean look at what happened with poor Jack Flag!

Chris,

My understanding is he went to where the gang violence is the highest along with the fact he wanted to make an impact for his race. Thus, Chicago and gangs. (Don't ask me how Blackheart got involved other than he was bored I guess.)

As for the plan, I think it was sort of "strength through force" to get the gangs to settle down. Maybe.

Most of my problem with the issue was using Blackheart. It's just weird.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Lathiira wrote:

Mockingbird got a bit of a transfusion from Steve Rogers plus a bit from Nick Fury when she nearly died.

Natasha has a different variation (seeing as how's she's Russian), but yes.

Here is the Wikipedia entry about Mockingbird:

"During a raid on a warehouse that is revealed to be the location of H.A.M.M.E.R.'s attempt to reorganize after the defeat of Norman Osborn, Bobbi is mortally injured in a shooting despite Spider-Man's attempts to save her, forcing her teammates to evacuate her to the hospital. While Mockingbird lies in hospital in critical condition, Nick Fury contacts the team and gives her a top secret serum that was created by the Germans in 1959 and has recently been rediscovered by the H.A.M.M.E.R. agents; a combination of the Super Soldier Serum that turned Steve Rogers into Captain America, and the Infinity Formula that slowed Fury's aging. The Formula saves her life, but Nick warns the New Avengers that he cannot predict the consequences of turning Mockingbird into a combination of himself and Rogers."

And here is the one about Black Widow:
"The Black Widow has been enhanced by biotechnology that makes her body resistant to aging and disease and heals at an above human rate; as well as psychological conditioning that suppresses her memory of true events as opposed to implanted ones of the past without the aid of specially designed system suppressant drugs.
The white blood cells in her body are efficient enough to fight off any microbe, foreign body and others from her body, keeping her healthy and immune to most, if not all infections, diseases and disorders."


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well, sure Charles, if you want to go all-in on details and stuff :)


Thor 700 is good but Cable 150 was slightly better. If anyone cares.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Batman: Taking your current to talk to your ex?
Never a good idea.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

OOPS, wrong thread.


Yeah going to say Charles...move that one over a little! ;)

But if anyone has X problems is the X-men. It seems...


The old thread will never die!


Nah. It's pretty much dead.

Right now I'm just wondering what's up with having all these Jean Greys...or at least two Jean Grey and her adult daughter with the worst code name I can think of...

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