The All-New, All-Marvel Thread Vol. 1


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In not quite related Marvel News, Brian "You screwed us all!" Michael Bendis is leaving Marvel to go work for DC.

*sad trombone* I mean for DC. Marvel I'm pretty happy he's gone.


I like a lot of Bendis's work.

Have they announced what he'll be doing at DC?


thejeff,

No and I guess you're the only one. I mean I like some of his work, but not enough to justify some of the other crap he's pulled...


I hear a lot of grarr about him, but his stuff seems pretty popular. I don't like all his big ideas, but the actual stories I've read have generally been good.

Not to the level I'll read whatever he works on, but enough that I'll check it out if it's a character or premise I like.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:
No and I guess you're the only one.

Nope :)

I like most of what he did and if there's one thing that weakened his work for Marvel it was that he had to much on his plate at times. But especially his collaborations with Alexander Maleev are fantastic. And I thought that most of his stuff for the Ultimate line was awesome even if I didn't like the idea behind Ultimateverse in general.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:

thejeff,

No and I guess you're the only one. I mean I like some of his work, but not enough to justify some of the other crap he's pulled...

Yeah no. I'm a Bendis fan as well. Then again I'm a huge David Mamet fan too. Granted Bendis screws up about as much as he hits the mark and is mostly character focused and not plot focused. More often than not because of this the ending of his stories seem anti climactic in terms of the story but the question that I ask myself when reading his books is: What does this mean for these characters going forward.

I love his early work on Powers, his Ultimate Spider-Man run is one of the best Spider-Man run's EVER. His X-books weren't great, but his Daredevil run is, again, one of the best runs on Daredevil ever. His Invincible Iron Man run has it's highs and lows but INFAMOUS IRON MAN is one of the best things that he's done in YEARS. Civil War II was saved only by David Marquez's art.

As he's leaving Marvel this pretty much marks the end of 40 years of me collecting comics from the big two. Most of the books I was still reading from Marvel were Bendis books (The Defenders, Jessica Jones, Invincible Iron-Man, Spider-Man and Spider-Men II). I was still reading Black Panther but I'm going to trade wait it now. Champions, Avengers and Captain America all written by Mark Waid I'll be dropping and probably trade waiting. I dropped DC during New52 and wont be going back.

The only books I'll probably subscribe to now are my Greg Rucka Image books LAZARUS and BLACK MAGIK. INVINCIBLE is ending in a few months so that's another book off of deck.

*shrugs* it seems that the only hobby that I can reasonably depend on for enjoyment these days is miniature painting.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

He was the architect of these Marvel events:
Secret War
House of M
Secret Invasion
Siege
Age of Ultron.

The only one I don't regret buying is Secret Invasion.
Add my name to the not a big fan list.

Edit: Just realized; he killed The Wasp (Janet Van Dyne) in Secret Invasion, then after she was brought back he killed Henry Pym in Age of Ultron.


I don't even remember Secret War. Was that really an event? Not Secret Wars, right? That was a Hickman project, I think.

The only one of those I actually read was Age of Ultron, which was decent.
I tend to dislike the big event stories in general, so that may play into it.

I like Miles. I liked Jessica Jones. As wacky an idea as it was, I liked bringing back the original X-Men and much of the rest of that run on X-Men.


I like the characters but I stand by my thought that he's done more harm than good.

As for Secret Wars, Jeff, that was the one where unbeknownst to many Marvel Comics people, SHIELD had started a war against Doctor Doom. At least I'm pretty sure SHIELD might have been involved since OG Nick Fury had done a covert...something against Latveria/Dooom.


*reads Mighty Thor 701* *softly cries*

Spoiler:
Goodbye War-Thor. We hardly knew you...but I guess if Asgardia survives, so too might Volstagg.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:

I like the characters but I stand by my thought that he's done more harm than good.

As for Secret Wars, Jeff, that was the one where unbeknownst to many Marvel Comics people, SHIELD had started a war against Doctor Doom. At least I'm pretty sure SHIELD might have been involved since OG Nick Fury had done a covert...something against Latveria/Dooom.

It wasn't even SHIELD it was just Nick Fury.

Fury had proof that the present Prime minister of Latveria was bankrolling baddies like Jack O' Lantern, Killer Shrike and the Tinkerer. Since these guys were technically being backed by a foreign government and committing criminal acts on American soil Nick wanted to go after Latveria for terrorism. The president told Fury to stand down.

Fury knowing that Latveria would eventually escalate the situation decided to basically take matters into his own hands and go rogue. He called in favors from Spider-Man, Luke Cage, Wolverine, Daredevil and Captain America to go to Latveria and halt their operations.

After they did it, Nick Fury being Nick Fury wanted his friends to have plausible deniability and had them mind wiped.

The only problem was that the Lateverian Prime minister, now super-powered begins hunting the heroes down one by one starting with Luke Cage who winds up in a medically induced coma.

IT only gets worse from there....

Secret War wasn't an event it was a 5 issue limited series and it was one I really enjoyed. It started the whole rogue Nick Fury thing that ran for years in Marvel and was the seed for Hickman's SECRET WARRIORS years later.


Shin,

Yeah I forgot how that helped lead into Secret Warriors and thus Daisy Johnson.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Shin,

Yeah I forgot how that helped lead into Secret Warriors and thus Daisy Johnson.

Now that you mention it I'm pretty sure that Daisy makes her first appearance in Secret War.


Yes. She did. I checked.


I find Bendis worked best when he had his own world and no continuity to worry about. I loved Ultimate Spider-man for years... but once he came over to 616, I'm struggling to think of ANYTHING he did that I didnt' feel just... angry all the time about.

Pretty much starting with Avengers Disassembled, through DD's unmasking (again), to Captain America allowing Wolverine on the Avengers to do his wetwork... Everything was just... BAD. MOst of that is probably on weak editors not stepping in to correct his continuity errors... but overall I hated it all.

Going to DC where Continuity is non-existent and each week it's a whole new universe... He may shine there?? On the other hand, Rebirth is supposed to get back to the optimistic heroic age... and Bendis was instrumental in grittying up Marvel... so it seems a weird fit.


It's not a fit or a fix so much as DC decided they wanted Bendis and he wanted DC. Why? I dunno.


Thomas Seitz wrote:
It's not a fit or a fix so much as DC decided they wanted Bendis and he wanted DC. Why? I dunno.

I wonder if this means anything for Johns? What Bendis was at Marvel has pretty much been Johns at DC... Not sure how that will work. Either Bendis is going to be relegated to a MUCH smaller role than he had Marvel... or there will be two very big fish swimming in that pond...


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phantom1592 wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:
It's not a fit or a fix so much as DC decided they wanted Bendis and he wanted DC. Why? I dunno.
I wonder if this means anything for Johns? What Bendis was at Marvel has pretty much been Johns at DC... Not sure how that will work. Either Bendis is going to be relegated to a MUCH smaller role than he had Marvel... or there will be two very big fish swimming in that pond...

Well, except that Johns' position is official (President and Chief Creative Officer), while Bendis is just an influential writer. Johns will be his boss.

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.
phantom1592 wrote:
Pretty much starting with Avengers Disassembled, through DD's unmasking (again), to Captain America allowing Wolverine on the Avengers to do his wetwork... Everything was just... BAD. MOst of that is probably on weak editors not stepping in to correct his continuity errors... but overall I hated it all.

I hated what he did to the Scarlet Witch and (much less character-assassinatingly) to Dr. Strange.

I won't even get into the crap with Wanda. He clearly had no idea how her powers worked, and the explanation for what happened has already been retconned multiple different ways, by multiple different writers.

With Strange, he put the Sorcerer Supreme, who, throughout his history as a solo act and a Defender, has teleported (often an entire team) casually across space, dimensions and even time (so casually, in fact, that when Nighthawk got a little too demanding for free rides, he just crapped out in a single panel a magic ring of teleportation for the guy to use!), onto the Avengers. But then he didn't want him to be able to teleport the Avengers around, because he needed them to have that time in the quinjet travelling to and from scenes, to sit around and talk, so, suddenly, Strange has lost the power to teleport. (And much of the rest of his Sorcerer Supreme powers. Bendis used Strange as just a guy who could fly and throw zaps, which means his role could have been filled by Living Lightning or Firebird or Jocasta with a jet-pack...)

Overall, Bendis seems to be a fan of deconstruction (and he's hardly the only one!). But he also seems to have the attention span of a tsetse fly, and never seems to stick around to build the hero back up after tearing them down, so he just shows up and breaks whatever toys he's handed, and then wanders off to break something else, and leaves other writers to try and fix whatever he's broken. I have no idea if it's just an attention span thing, or that he's just playing to his strength, which is deconstruction, not construction or building up or repairing or rehabbing characters, or a deep (and understandable, if unprofessional) resentment of being hired to work on characters owned by someone else and created by someone else that have decades of history and aren't going to ever pay him residuals.

I vastly prefer creators who are his polar opposite, and spend time and effort building up characters, or even rehabilitating them after they've been put through the wringer. Kurt Busiek and Peter David tend to excel at that sort of thing.

Even Bendis *can* do it. He dragged Luke Cage out of mothballs and dusted him off and made him relevant again. I just wish he'd do more of that.


Bendis did improve Luke Cage's standing no question.

But the rest made me want to scream.

Also I liked Hickman.


I don't really see it. I mean, if you don't like him, you don't like him. That's fine. I run kind of hot and cold on him myself.

He seems to sell pretty well though. If he's so horrible and broadly hated, why does he keep getting work? Why have him write so many big name titles?
Why is DC bringing him on with some big exclusive deal?

Dark Archive

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thejeff wrote:

I don't really see it. I mean, if you don't like him, you don't like him. That's fine. I run kind of hot and cold on him myself.

He seems to sell pretty well though. If he's so horrible and broadly hated, why does he keep getting work? Why have him write so many big name titles?
Why is DC bringing him on with some big exclusive deal?

I assume that he's super-popular with misanthropes who love to hate everything. I got stuck at a convention with a group of 'Authority fans' who spent pretty much an entire gaming session kvetching about how much they *hated* the Authority and wanted someone to 'stomp a mudhole' into them (whatever the heck that means).

Those who, like Bendis, don't like the whole super-hero genre, and find concepts like idealism and hope to be naïve and childish, and want to tear down anything seen by others as inspiring and make it something ugly probably think he's the bee's knees for making a 'silly' genre into something 'gritty' er.

That all said, Mark Millar's ten times worse. Captain America re-envisioned as a *literal* jack-booted thug? Hulk as a cannibal rapist? No thanks.


Set wrote:
thejeff wrote:

I don't really see it. I mean, if you don't like him, you don't like him. That's fine. I run kind of hot and cold on him myself.

He seems to sell pretty well though. If he's so horrible and broadly hated, why does he keep getting work? Why have him write so many big name titles?
Why is DC bringing him on with some big exclusive deal?

I assume that he's super-popular with misanthropes who love to hate everything. I got stuck at a convention with a group of 'Authority fans' who spent pretty much an entire gaming session kvetching about how much they *hated* the Authority and wanted someone to 'stomp a mudhole' into them (whatever the heck that means).

Those who, like Bendis, don't like the whole super-hero genre, and find concepts like idealism and hope to be naïve and childish, and want to tear down anything seen by others as inspiring and make it something ugly probably think he's the bee's knees for making a 'silly' genre into something 'gritty' er.

That all said, Mark Millar's ten times worse. Captain America re-envisioned as a *literal* jack-booted thug? Hulk as a cannibal rapist? No thanks.

I guess. Maybe. I think you're assuming a lot about him and about anyone who likes his work.

I mean, I like much of what I've read of Bendis and I don't think I'm a misanthrope who doesn't like the genre.

I don't know. There just seems to be a weird sub-cult of hating Bendis and apparently assuming everyone else does too.


There's a sub-cult hating Joss Whedon. How is that different from hating Bendis?


Thomas Seitz wrote:
There's a sub-cult hating Joss Whedon. How is that different from hating Bendis?

Not really, I guess.


Set wrote:
thejeff wrote:

I don't really see it. I mean, if you don't like him, you don't like him. That's fine. I run kind of hot and cold on him myself.

He seems to sell pretty well though. If he's so horrible and broadly hated, why does he keep getting work? Why have him write so many big name titles?
Why is DC bringing him on with some big exclusive deal?

I assume that he's super-popular with misanthropes who love to hate everything. I got stuck at a convention with a group of 'Authority fans' who spent pretty much an entire gaming session kvetching about how much they *hated* the Authority and wanted someone to 'stomp a mudhole' into them (whatever the heck that means).

Those who, like Bendis, don't like the whole super-hero genre, and find concepts like idealism and hope to be naïve and childish, and want to tear down anything seen by others as inspiring and make it something ugly probably think he's the bee's knees for making a 'silly' genre into something 'gritty' er.

That all said, Mark Millar's ten times worse. Captain America re-envisioned as a *literal* jack-booted thug? Hulk as a cannibal rapist? No thanks.

Kind of a strawman don't you think?


Anyways, new picture shows us that now the Infinity Gems are colored much more like their MCU counterparts.

Except of course that the Space stone isn't cube shaped.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Pardon the tangent, please:

I *think* I have collected all of the Generations comics. It was tricky, as the local comic shops didn't keep them on display for long, and theywere all numbered #1.

Was there a "Nova" Generations comic? The characters appeared on the large promotional poster, but the internal storyline, like the last couple of scenes in Generations: The Americas, he's a no show. And that's the only one of the promotional pairs I haven't ben able to track down.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:
There's a sub-cult hating Joss Whedon. How is that different from hating Bendis?

Yeah well, everyone can have their own opinions. What bothers me is the tendency to try and paint anyone who would disagree with one's own opinion in a corner. I have some misanthrope tendencies (especially at bad work days^^), but as far as my hobbies are concerned, I'm very much the paladin type of fan. I still like Bendis' work very much most of the time. Same with Whedon.

So what I do with those sub-cults most of the time is simply to translate their tirades from "that is so bad" into "I don't like that", because that is the actual thing they would say if they were honest about it.

Chris Mortika wrote:
Was there a "Nova" Generations comic?

I think there was none. Would have loved to see it, but apart from thet image, I never saw an announcement about the Novas being included in the Generations line-up


WormysQueue wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:
There's a sub-cult hating Joss Whedon. How is that different from hating Bendis?

Yeah well, everyone can have their own opinions. What bothers me is the tendency to try and paint anyone who would disagree with one's own opinion in a corner. I have some misanthrope tendencies (especially at bad work days^^), but as far as my hobbies are concerned, I'm very much the paladin type of fan. I still like Bendis' work very much most of the time. Same with Whedon.

So what I do with those sub-cults most of the time is simply to translate their tirades from "that is so bad" into "I don't like that", because that is the actual thing they would say if they were honest about it.

Pretty much. There's a bit of truth in some of the criticism - Bendis does tend to the dark and gritty side, but it's gets blown completely out of proportion: "don't like the whole super-hero genre", "want to tear down anything seen by others as inspiring and make it something ugly".


Wormy,

I won't deingrate you choices. I just vehemently disagree with them.

Also, no Nova didn't have a Generations comics. But then again Richard Rider is now alive so...yeah.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Wormy,

I won't deingrate you choices. I just vehemently disagree with them.

As long as we can amicably agree to disagree, everything's cool. Also, I'm not saying that I'm right and you're wrong. And I'm sure I've made the mistake once or twice myself to put people in categories they didn't belong to just because of their preferences, so I'm not even sure if those "sub-cults" really exist, or if it's just peoples' ability to get very vocal about the things they don't like, while they stay silent about the things they enjoy.

This all said, I certainly will give anything he comes up for DC a read and expect it to be good or at least decent.


Nah. We're always cool. Besides you let me hang around on this thread. So it's all good.

He and DC can do...whatever. I'll just stick considering all comics less as literature and more of an art form.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Chris Mortika wrote:

Pardon the tangent, please:

I *think* I have collected all of the Generations comics. It was tricky, as the local comic shops didn't keep them on display for long, and they were all numbered #1.

Was there a "Nova" Generations comic? The characters appeared on the large promotional poster, but the internal storyline, like the last couple of scenes in Generations: The Americas, he's a no show. And that's the only one of the promotional pairs I haven't ben able to track down.

I got my list of comics being released this week.

The Generations hard cover is coming out - $50.00.
Even if it is sealed in plastic it may list the various comics so you can check to make sure you got all of them.
If you can wait another 3-6 months, the soft cover should be out.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Thanks for checking, Charles.

Judging from this article, the Nova team-up never happened. Maybe it'll be a bonus chapter in one of the compilations??


I just read the Silver Sable One-Shot. Liked it a lot. And now I want that to become an ongoing Comic.


Yeah that was a good comic. But it will probably not get much play since it's not a main line character. Maybe.

What I do know is this: Jean Grey's new team costumes aren't the greatest.


So...any thoughts on the Death of Viv Vision? I mean is she REALLY dead or not?

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I hope not. I liked her.
Hopefully, she still has her phasing power or something similar.


Charles,

No she didn't because the High Evolutionary made her just a regular human before she tried to save the Earth.

But we'll see.


Thomas Seitz wrote:

Yeah that was a good comic. But it will probably not get much play since it's not a main line character. Maybe.

We got a Solo series. So I would not rule out that someone will greenlight a Silver Sable solo^^

Regarding Viv: I like her too. And I thought they would explore her being human more. But looks like it was just a excuse to kill her off more easily. Waid should be better than this cheap killing off for shock value stuff.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Charles,

No she didn't because the High Evolutionary made her just a regular human before she tried to save the Earth.

But we'll see.

Just because she became human doesn't mean the High Evolutionary didn't also give her powers.

Dark Archive

Charles Scholz wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Charles,

No she didn't because the High Evolutionary made her just a regular human before she tried to save the Earth.

But we'll see.

Just because she became human doesn't mean the High Evolutionary didn't also give her powers.

I expected her to retain her powers. It would hardly be much of an upgrade if the High Evolutionary turned her from a synthezoid with a bunch of powers to a human girl with no powers at all.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Unless he thought being a plain human with nothing extra was the upgrade.
Playing my own Devil's Advocate here.


I'm pretty sure the High Evolutionary thought being a robot wasn't cool.

As for her still having her powers, there was no evidence of that BEFORE she stepped into the Core thingie.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

True, but they didn't show her trying to use her powers and not being able to.
The only thing she said was that she was losing her computer skills.
Probably because a human brain could not retain everything a computer brain can.


So... Does anyone want to talk about what just happened in the X-men universe or should I just post spoilers?

Scarab Sages

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Paizo Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Spoilers please. Christmas shopping is putting me behind on my reading.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm just curious about what Thomas wants to talk, as there are quite some things happening right now. :)


Wormy and Charles,

You might recall that...

Spoiler:
We have a time-displaced OG X-men, one of whom is Jean Grey. Who had just started her own series... Well guess what. She thought the Phoenix Force wanted HER! Turns out, no it wanted ADULT Jean. So when she tried to fight it...it killed her. Like incinerated her.

So...yeah that happened.

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