Chief Technical Officer
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In the next couple weeks, I'm going to be working on updating the Adventure Card Guild Guide. (We didn't do it before Gen Con partly because the organized play folks needed to focus on Starfinder Society, and also because the main additions we need to make are to support products that aren't going to be released for a while yet.)
Here's my current list of things that need attention:
• Deal with the increasingly inaccurate "class deck" terminology.
• Add that you can play the promo goblins with specific decks.
• Add OP rules support for a particular feature of the Hell's Vengeance decks.
• Add OP rules support for using the Ultimate decks with other decks.
• Update this:
Option 2: Play a Pregenerated Character. Go to paizo.com/pfsacg/resources and download the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Character Sheets; these downloads include pregenerated starting deck lists for the iconic characters in each Class Deck.
Ideally, we need to actually make these available; if we can't get that in place, we should point to the thread where the pregens are. Also, we should replace "the iconic characters in each Class Deck" with "one character in each deck," since not all decks have iconics anymore.
Am I missing anything?
Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane
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Pg 9: Removing Cards From Play
Would there be any way to change the must to a may. I ask this because there are several characters (Alchemist for example) that have powers to where they can recycle cards that are normally banish cards. Potions of healing have come in handy more times than not when a cleric is low on or does not have cure spells available.
Thank you for your consideration.
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He may be thinking of the point where you start removing Basic cards from the box (generally around deck 4, IIRC?) It's been a while since I was really actively in the game (coming back from a hiatus myself) and when I was last involved, there was back and forth on the 'must' remove boons when it was time to do the cullings. (Yes, it's been a while. :) )
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Ahh, I see. I suppose it comes down to the wording on the Adventure Path cards and whether you're using one of the optional methods from the "Preparing the Game Box" sidebar (page 13 of the Guide v. 4.2).
In PluTo removing boons if they would be banished is already a "may" (the same as in the normal games) while back in Shackles you would have removed everything beforehand and thus would never have encountered them at all. (I don't have PDFs for the other two seasons.)
Perhaps the best place for something like this is in "Remove Basics and Elites on the Fly": add a note that "must remove" and "may remove" can still apply when removing as you go, and let the other methods remain as they are.
I don't know if you would need an accompanying note back on page 9 that this only applies to a "printed" power, as I've never interpreted that part as applying to boons being removed due to the AP power. (In this case, an AP power that's being preempted by a character power.) Hmm...
Man, we're really nitpicky, aren't we? :)
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Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane
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Actually, this has nothing to do with the preparation of the game box. Let me attempt to provide an example.
Game is in progress.
Player picks up a card from a location that requires a banish in the card power.
According to the paragraph on Page 9: Removing Cards from Play, that card must be removed from the game and replaced with one that does not have banish in the powers.
Now you have an alchemist in the game with a power to turn that card requiring it to be banished when used to a recharge. The paragraph on page 9: Removing Cards from Play, kicks in a removes the option from even using the card as it has to be removed from the game and then a new one drawn that does not have the banish when used power.
This is before removing any cards as you progress within the adventure path stated within preparing the deck box. Changing the must to may allows the party to use the card if needed knowing full well that the use of the card may take it away as a potential deck upgrade.
I hope this clears up the intent of the change requested. Thank you.
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<goes and looks up page 9 of the guide>
Preston, Parody is correct. That section is about cards that have powers that activate when they are removed from the game, not powers that activate when they are banished.
Potions of healing, vision, the ocean, etc. are all valid cards to use during organized play.
The ones that are not valid are ones like Cenovath from Mummy's Mask, where you remove it from the game to gain a feat.
Removing Cards from Play
If you encounter a boon that require you to remove it from the game to activate its power, you must instead exchange that boon with a random boon of the same type from the game box and encounter that card.
To give an example, page 9 is talking about cards like Vailea from Skull and Shackles or Tome of Mental Prowress from Wrath of the Righteous. The power itself says you remove it from play, not simply banish it.
A character can never begin a scenario with any card that has an adventure deck number higher than her tier.
This doesn't include traders, correct? A Tier 2 character, say, can still trade for higher tier cards, and can substitute Loot of a higher Tier? (there's no indication of when the timing for loot substitutions happen.)
Actually, I'd like to have the timing for traders and loot substitution interactions clarified. Keith indicated that you shouldn't be able to use substitute a loot, and then trade for something with that loot. This makes sense to me, but I think it works RAW (but again, there is no timing information about loot substitutions.)
There is no text talking about substitutions at all in the Guide actually, so there's no guidance on what you do when you banish a substituted loot.
You can add any character card of the same class (along with a matching role and token card) from any Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Base Set or Character Add-On Deck.
This should be modified to account for character decks. (Occult Adventures in particular)
If the back of your character card names a cohort, you may have any one cohort with that name in your Class Deck box.
I somehow completed missed this. This means you can't switch your Cohort once you've set it. This should probably be indicated in your chronicle sheet. In fact, any cards you add to your class deck box should be indicated on your chronicle sheet when you added it.
The "Removing Cards from Play" paragraph only talks about cards that require you to remove it from the game when you encounter it.
So does this mean if I encounter a Blessing of Nocticula I shuffled into a location deck for a substitution, it's exchanged for another blessing? What happens to the card I substituted then?
Also, does this mean I can actually activate a Blessing of Nocticula I substituted? How do I deal with the removing from the game part then? Does it return to the box next time? Do I remove the card I substituted from my class deck box?
(Not to rag on it further, but banishing a card puts it back into the game box, not removes it from the game.)
You can add any character card of the same class (along with a matching role and token card) from any Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Base Set or Character Add-On Deck.This should be modified to account for character decks. (Occult Adventures in particular)
If the back of your character card names a cohort, you may have any one cohort with that name in your Class Deck box.
I think that was (at least part of) what Vic meant when he said
Deal with the increasingly inaccurate "class deck" terminology.
The "Removing Cards from Play" paragraph only talks about cards that require you to remove it from the game when you encounter it.
I would also note that at least one scenario relies on the fact that you can have this kind of card in your deck.
not a scenario.
I would also note that at least one scenario relies on the fact that you can have this kind of card in your deck.
** spoiler omitted **
If you played it at Gen Con, what you were told could be from a more official source.
There was no one official involved in either the two times I was involved.
There is no text talking about substitutions at all in the Guide actually, so there's no guidance on what you do when you banish a substituted loot.
Seconding this.
We had a lot of "loot access" during season 1 that got banished* -- we went with the idea that the card that had been swapped for the loot was now gone and had to be replaced (using the tier system, so generally with a basic). But the loot access was still viable for the next scenario.* One early reward was swapping a blessing for a corrupted one. And one location requires a corrupted boon to be banished to close. So yeah, that Baphomet came and went a fair amount.
Thanks!
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I agree that bringing the ruling from the forums (if something happens to a substitute card, you're doing it to the card it replaced) into the Guide would be a good idea.
Interestingly the "Removing Cards From Play" paragraph does not use the term "never", so in theory it can be overridden. If that's intended, you should probably split the spoiler discussion into its own "asking for clarification/errata" thread for the Adventure involved, as adding an override to the Adventure card would be a pretty simple clarification.
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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Will there be any change to the rule that currently only allows adding NPCs when playing solo?
I'd love to be able to report the games my wife and I play to test new OP adventures and/or class decks, but we usually each play two characters.
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The talk about Red Carriage exposed something in the Guild Guide that didn't ever seem to be intended.
PFSACG Guide 4.2 says this on p.14:
"After successfully completing your fourth (scenario within a tier), you gain 1 card feat. When you gain a card feat, add a card of that type to your deck using the Hierarchy in the sidebar on page 7."
This wording not only breaks the normal deckbuilding process, but doesn't seem to be intended - it has only gone through minor revision since 1.0 of the guide, and Tanis had intended banished cards go through a similar replacement process as box play (aka AD#-2 once you're past AD3). But currently Card Feats RAW actually force you to take a Basic card which is against the spirit of the banished card ruling.
Guild Guide 4.2, p.10:
"After upgrading your deck, if your deck doesn’t have enough of certain card types to meet the Cards List requirement on your character card, and your character is Tier 2 or lower, choose the extra cards you need from your Class Deck using the Hierarchy in the sidebar on page 7. If your character is Tier 3 or higher, you may instead choose appropriate cards that have an adventure deck number at least 2 lower than your tier."
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Chief Technical Officer
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That should read "When you gain a card feat, add a card of that type to your deck using the Hierarchy in the sidebar on page 7; if your character is Tier 3 or higher, you may instead choose a card that has an adventure deck number at least 2 lower than your tier."
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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One thing that a few of us have talked about in other conversations is the possibility of treating promo cards as the current adventure deck number SOLELY for the sake of deck upgrades at the end. In other words, if you've added the Mummy's Mask promo cards to your box when playing Season of Plundered Tombs, for example, and you're playing Adventure 3, acquiring one of those cards would give the option for a 3 upgrade at the end instead of a B. Having promos count as B is actually a disincentive to adding them to the box in organized play.
One thing that a few of us have talked about in other conversations is the possibility of treating promo cards as the current adventure deck number SOLELY for the sake of deck upgrades at the end. In other words, if you've added the Mummy's Mask promo cards to your box when playing Season of Plundered Tombs, for example, and you're playing Adventure 3, acquiring one of those cards would give the option for a 3 upgrade at the end instead of a B. Having promos count as B is actually a disincentive to adding them to the box in organized play.
I would love to see this happen. I'm always conflicted about adding them to the box for organized play, and I hate that. Promos should be exciting to find, instead of feeling like they're cheating you of a potential upgrade.
+1 to Cartmanbeck’s proposal. We have never added promos to the game box during Organized Play for exactly this reason.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Nebraska—Bellevue
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I was talking to another ACG player and we came up with a recommendation that's not quite a guide thing. But this may be a good place to bring it up. Our ACG "certs" are not aging well as we do more cross-over benefits with the PFS RPG. Our ACG certs don't get dated, they don't have event numbers and all our benefits are written in.
I'd like to see some kind of PFS RPG cert in the back of ACG scenarios where PFS RPG rewards are offered. For an example see Season of the Righteous, Vol IV. "And the Void Would Be calling" (1-4E) grants a reward that goes to ONE of your PFS RPG characters. How do I implement that? Our ACG log sheets don't rise to the standards of a PFS cert. Do we insert a copy of our log sheet and tell the GM to trust us -- honest -- this hand written note refers to an actual benefit from the ACG. A PFS reward boon/cert in the back of the scenario could be printed for the participants to show the actual benefit in a form PFS GMs (who don't always play the ACG) would recognize.
Also, I's love to know what I, when I report this on the Paizo webpage, what am I supposed to type in the "PFS Boon" block. Am I supposed to enter the character number the player assigned it to? Or type in the actual benefit (not much room for that). There just isn't much guidance here.
I love the concept. But I feel we just need a few instructions in the guide and an adjustment to how we report.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Nebraska—Bellevue
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OK,
Here's one more clarification I think could help the ACG guide. To what extent can you rebuild your deck between games and how does that affect bury vs banish. Here's my example. I'm playing Reta the Goblin in Season of the Righteous. (BTW, she rocks!) Here's Reta's deck baseline:
Weapon: B, B, B, B, B
Armor: B, B
Item: B, B
Ally: B, B, B
Blessing: B, B, B
Here's Reta's deck as it exists right now:
Weapon: 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4
Armor: 1, 2
Item: N, 1
Ally: B, 1, 2
Blessing: B, N, N, 2
N = Non-basic B
Now, I'm of the opinion that a player should be able to rebuild their deck between games with the restrictions of what they have access to. But that does make the difference between bury and banish less significant.
If I chose the Javelin of Lightning (level 2 weapon in Goblins: Fight class deck), burying it works pretty normal. It's out of the game, but I don't lose it.
But if I banish it for the bonus effect, should I lose that item 2 reward? Do I have to replace it with a basic weapon? Right now the only thing I report for the ACG session is that I got a weapon slot. I don't even report the level. On our sheets, we only track the reward -- Weapon 2. If I'm supposed to lose that item, then we should probably report the loss of the weapon upgrade on the log.
Either way, the guide should probably explain it, perhaps with an example like above.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Nebraska—Bellevue
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But if I banish it for the bonus effect, should I lose that item 2 reward? Do I have to replace it with a basic weapon? Right now the only thing I report for the ACG session is that I got a weapon slot. I don't even report the level. On our sheets, we only track the reward -- Weapon 2. If I'm supposed to lose that item, then we should probably report the loss of the weapon upgrade on the log.
One more example. A potion of healing is a non-basic B card in the Goblins Fight deck. If I banish if for effect, can I rebuild my deck with the non-basic B item reward OR have I lost the slot, essentially removing my ability to get another potion of healing?
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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There is no rebuilding allowed between scenarios other than that explicitly described in the guide. You have to choose your deck upgrades at the time you earn them, and once you've picked that Javelin of Lightning, say, you can't decide you'd rather have the Flaming Scimitar +1 (until you manage to earn another "Weapon 2" deck upgrade).
If you banish cards from your deck (for any reason) you have to replace them with cards chosen according to the Hierachy - B Basic, B non-basic, 1 Basic, ... (or, once you get high enough tier, with a card whose Adventure Deck number is at least two lower than your current tier). You don't get to replace a banished "Weapon 2", for example, with another "Weapon 2"
If a player banishes a card during play we will note that on the chronicle.