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So, I've been tossing around character ideas and one that stood out to me was a Kasatha warrior-priest. They are mentioned s few times in the book, and I thought I'd look into making a soldier with the arcane assailalint style. I like the idea of a fighter that has enough faith that he can augment his fighting capabilities, even if he isn't a full on mystic.
I mean, is that viable? All I see is "blitz soldier, blitz soldier.". Are they the only viable choice?
No, someone just really likes them.
Arcane Assailant specialization would work great for what you're going for I believe :3
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I will say, however, that Blitz would probably be a good secondary fighting style if you're planning on going melee with your character.
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I think most of why you're seeing them brought up a lot is that a blitz soldier is a really good 1 level dip for a lot of melee builds, but it's certainly not any kind of One True Build.
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Yeah, as a Soldier, Blitz Soldier is pretty good but nothing special. Where it really shines is as a dip for other Classes.
One level for all a Soldier's Proficiencies, a boost to Fort and Will, +1 BAB, and +4 Initiative and +10 speed is an amazing dip, as dips go.
I feel left out, I'm planning on building a soldier that's good at blowing stuff up...
I think most of why you're seeing them brought up a lot is that a blitz soldier is a really good 1 level dip for a lot of melee builds, but it's certainly not any kind of One True Build.
This seems to be my impression. Not so much it is the one true build for soldiers but that it makes a really good 1st level dip for things like solarians or others who want to go melee focused. It just gives a lot of good melee utility for a one level dip.
I just made a Kastha soldier as a switch hitter constantly wielding both a longarm and a tactical pike. The Hit-And-Run style seems to work better for that than Blitz.
A blast from the rifle and a wallop with his pike will be his opening move. Maybe even in the same round eventually!
I'm looking forward to trying out the Armor Storm. I don't think Blitz is the end-all be-all, but it's pretty tempting for a secondary.
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My soldier is a sharpshooter.
I'm looking forward to trying out the Armor Storm. I don't think Blitz is the end-all be-all, but it's pretty tempting for a secondary.
I actually like bombard for the secondary. You pick it up when grenades really start to cost money, but level appropriate ones start to have vaguely level appropriate effects, and getting at least one and possibly several free per day is pretty useful.
As primary, my favorite is sharpshooter. Start with at least a 13 strength (to qualify for heavy weapons and armor use), and you aren't that bad off in melee, especially once 3rd and 5th level roll around. Add in bullet storm and a targeting computer and there is very little people can do to hide from your really punishing shots.
Nah, they're pretty good, but the other options have appealing aspects too. We've got a sharpshooter in our campaign (that cover reduction is really useful), and I know I'm planning on doing a bombard for those free grenades when I eventually play my first soldier.
Ah. I was thinking it was just qualifying for the style techniques- which ones you had access to.
I'm looking forward to trying out the Armor Storm. I don't think Blitz is the end-all be-all, but it's pretty tempting for a secondary.I actually like bombard for the secondary. You pick it up when grenades really start to cost money, but level appropriate ones start to have vaguely level appropriate effects, and getting at least one and possibly several free per day is pretty useful.
As primary, my favorite is sharpshooter. Start with at least a 13 strength (to qualify for heavy weapons and armor use), and you aren't that bad off in melee, especially once 3rd and 5th level roll around. Add in bullet storm and a targeting computer and there is very little people can do to hide from your really punishing shots.
Secondary bombard seemed like a pretty solid option I was looking at as well. Possibly even primary being able to have a nice level appropriate grenade for basically every major encounter is nice and saves a LOT of cash over time. Higher level grenades seem like if you are not bombard you would have to be pretty stingy with their use or you will not be able to afford your other gear. With bombard you are getting enough free ones that you should not need to spend a ton on others and it allows you to adjust for enemies you find yourself fighting. Find yourself needing some sonic grenade or cryo grenade and all you had were fire well go make one of the type you need.
Bombard is far better as a primary, Blitz as secondary (as others have explained, the grenades you get would be 8 levels behind if Bombard is secondary).
I'm going to try the Blitz start into Solarion for my game. I could live without the +10 speed and +4 init, but I just can't handle only having 1 resolve point until level 4.
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Bombard is far better as a primary, Blitz as secondary (as others have explained, the grenades you get would be 8 levels behind if Bombard is secondary).
I'm going to try the Blitz start into Solarion for my game. I could live without the +10 speed and +4 init, but I just can't handle only having 1 resolve point until level 4.
Ditching Cha isn't exactly required to make a Solarian work. Which is not to say that route isn't valid, it's just not necessary.
I mean, my starting stats as a human are 16 Str, 14 Dex, 12 Con, 10 across mental (+1 to something from Theme).
For someone that wants to go into melee and try to not die, those physical stats seem pretty necessary.
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I mean, my starting stats as a human are 16 Str, 14 Dex, 12 Con, 10 across mental (+1 to something from Theme).
For someone that wants to go into melee and try to not die, those physical stats seem pretty necessary.
They really aren't. Stamina + HP gives characters more survival than hp alone from pathfinder, making con less necessary. The extra resolve from having a good charisma is more valuable than the extra stamina from a con 12.
If you take heavy armor, the dex is less necessary. Or you can use an operative weapon and lower str while going dex primary.
For a human, 16 str 12 dex 10 con 10 int 10 wis 14 cha would be an array that will be fine in combat and give you decent DCs and resolve points without a soldier dip.
At low levels heavy armor has a lot of penalties and most of it still supports +2 from Dex. Speed penalties are not where you want to be when you want to get into combat. And Dex is still needed if you want to attack at range greater than what throwing weapons offer.
I could consider swapping Con and Cha, but that's still too few resolve points unless I dump Dex as well. I guess I'll see if I overdid it on toughness when I take it for a spin, the numbers just feel low.
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At low levels heavy armor has a lot of penalties and most of it still supports +2 from Dex. Speed penalties are not where you want to be when you want to get into combat. And Dex is still needed if you want to attack at range greater than what throwing weapons offer.
I could consider swapping Con and Cha, but that's still too few resolve points unless I dump Dex as well. I guess I'll see if I overdid it on toughness when I take it for a spin, the numbers just feel low.
Hidden Soldier Armor at 1st gets you 14/16 AC with Dex 12. Yeah, it could get you 15/17, but the best anyone without Heavy Armor does is 15/16, and that's only at Dex 18 so a 14/16 is perfectly respectable as AC goes. And only gives -5 feet movement.
That's more than 'good enough' in terms of AC, and will only go up with level. By 5th you've got 20/22 with your 14 Dex and your Dex is maxed for your level in terms of armor.
In short, all Dex 14 gets you over Dex 12 is +1 AC at some levels (maybe half of them).
Now, the Soldier dip gets you various useful things, don't get me wrong, I'm just noting that a straight Solarian build doesn't suffer too much comparatively, and getting all your class abilities one level later hurts.
I personally made mine an Armour Storm - rolling him as a Vesk and carrying around (currently) a laser rifle. Planning to eventually dip into Blitz at level 9, but that's far off. Loved the idea of comboing the power of Hammer Fist with the Vesk's eventual 1.5x str bonus to it, especially since I'm planning to pick up the Melee Striker gear boost at level 3 - so he'll have a total of 1d4+6 damage by that point. Not -crazy- amounts of damage, but I more see him as going in with a rifle/heavier weapon and then being able to do a 'Sit down!' type wallop with his fist.
Plus, at level 5, Imma try to nab me a Battle Harness - dealing 1d10+8 on an unarmed strike.
So, I've been tossing around character ideas and one that stood out to me was a Kasatha warrior-priest. They are mentioned s few times in the book, and I thought I'd look into making a soldier with the arcane assailalint style. I like the idea of a fighter that has enough faith that he can augment his fighting capabilities, even if he isn't a full on mystic.
I mean, is that viable? All I see is "blitz soldier, blitz soldier.". Are they the only viable choice?
Blitz is the God Dip in Starfinder. If you want to dip 1-3 levels into Soldier and have most of your other levels in something else, it's by far the best choice.
However, if you're in Soldier class to stay rather than to just grab a couple levels, it's not nearly as overwhelming, and actually fairly balanced against other options.
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Heck I am going Blitz Soldier for my "dip" of 4 levels for my SFS 702 RANGED Small arms character. It is going to be Doc Holiday in space. Icon 4 levels of Blitz Soldier/8 levels of Thief Operative at second level I will have 9+dex to Init and moving 50 ft. Max ranks in Profession Gambler, Pilot, Intimidate, & Slight of Hand. High Culture & sense motive. Enough ranks in the other sciences that I am trained in to maybe occasionally remind the smart people some obscure thing (i.e Aid other)
It is a work in progress but this is what I have so far.
1)Fighter - Quick Draw, Improve Init
2)Operative -
3)Operative - Weapon Focus (Small arms)
4)Operative -
5)Fighter -
6) Fighter - (With my gear focus being the one that improves projectile damage-don't have my book in front of me)
7) Operative
8) Operative
9) Operative
10) Operative
11) Operative
12) Fighter
I personally made mine an Armour Storm - rolling him as a Vesk and carrying around (currently) a laser rifle....Loved the idea of comboing the power of Hammer Fist with the Vesk's eventual 1.5x str bonus to it, especially since I'm planning to pick up the Melee Striker gear boost at level 3 - so he'll have a total of 1d4+6 damage by that point.
I've also created an armor storm Vesk, and I'm excited about playing him, but sadly your beautiful dream of combining Hammer Fist and the 3rd level Vesk natural weapons specialization is not to be. The description of Hammer Fist makes clear that "these unarmed attacks don’t benefit from other abilities that apply specifically to unarmed attacks."
If that's not enough, the Vesk racial description states that the 3rd level specialization lets them "add 1–1/2 × their character level to their damage rolls for their natural weapons." The wording there strongly implies that this bonus is for attacks made with their bare fists/head spikes/tails/etc., not with armor-clad body parts.
I mean, hey, if your GM will go for it, rock out. But my reading suggests such a combo is against the rules as written and as intended.
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So lets look why this might be the case
Rune of the Eldritch Knight (Su) : this is a terrible ability. The main point of it (enchanting a weapon) can be done for 110 credits. (and probably will be done by most characters anyway). The benefit it provides is against sundering which.. I haven't seen yet.
Armor storm: ... you can just buy a better weapon than a battle glove
Bombard: one grenade a fight. Grenades are very Meh in this system
Guard: you are better at using armor in a system where armor won't stop you from being hit. You are either ranged (in which case you dont need armor) or melee (in which case its going to be a few levels before the max dex matters)
Hit and run. you gain a feat that you could take anyway. That is +2 to hit on one round of combat.
sharpshooter: Good for ranged.
+4 to init and 10 feet of movement is a very tangible, very real benefit at first level. The others.. not so much. They might be balanced over the long term but for level 1 blitz is miles ahead of everything else melee releated and isn't bad for any build
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Heck I am going Blitz Soldier for my "dip" of 4 levels for my SFS 702 RANGED Small arms character. It is going to be Doc Holiday in space. Icon 4 levels of Blitz Soldier/8 levels of Thief Operative at second level I will have 9+dex to Init and moving 50 ft. Max ranks in Profession Gambler, Pilot, Intimidate, & Slight of Hand. High Culture & sense motive. Enough ranks in the other sciences that I am trained in to maybe occasionally remind the smart people some obscure thing (i.e Aid other)
It is a work in progress but this is what I have so far.
1)Fighter - Quick Draw, Improve Init
2)Operative -
3)Operative - Weapon Focus (Small arms)
4)Operative -
5)Fighter -
6) Fighter - (With my gear focus being the one that improves projectile damage-don't have my book in front of me)
7) Operative
8) Operative
9) Operative
10) Operative
11) Operative
12) Fighter
To be honest, I'd simply take only 1 level of Blitz soldier, and ditch the other 3 soldier levels. And that is only if you really want the highest initiative in the West. Otherwise, straight operative is generally better.
Compared to a straight operative, your build will notice the extra BAB at levels 1, 5,6, and 7. This is because weapon focus gives +2 to hit when your BAB is 3 levels lower.
However, in exchange, your trick attack doesn't effectively become automatic until level 10, instead of 7 (due to the 7th level ability to take 10 in combat with skill focus). Which means a significant fraction of the time, you're not actually getting the trick attack damage levels 7, 8, and 9.
Unless you have plans that absolutely require those extra 2 feats, gaining them at the cost of 2 operative exploits is painful. Two level 10 operative exploits are going to tend to be better than 2 feats.
The +1 insight bonus to damage (+2 at level 12) on projectile weapons just doesn't make up for the loss of +2d8 trick attack damage.
Levels 3,4,5, and 6 are going to be particularly painful in combat.
At level 6 you're dealing something like 2d6 (gun) + 1d8 (trick attack) + 3 (specialization) + 1 (insight, bullet barrage).
2d6+1d8+4 averages to 15.5 on a trick attack.
A straight operative would be rolling 2d6+3d8+3 which is 23.5.
Out of combat, at level 6, you're out 12 skill points compared to a 1 level blitz soldier dip, which is 2 entire maxed out skills at that point.
You could put those extra points into medicine (Doc Holiday was a dentist after all, hence "Doc").
I suppose if you actually are planning on taking advantage of weapon specialization in longarms, heavy weapons and advanced melee weapons that 3 levels of Soldier provides than this makes a bit more sense. But as a small arms gunfighter, I think you're reducing your effectiveness without significant gain.
Armor storm: ... you can just buy a better weapon than a battle glove
True, but you don't get 1st level Melee Striker to go along with it. 1d4+6 damage for a 1st level Soldier with 18 Str is extremely respectable, especially for a free ability. Probably the best minimum damage you're going to get at 1st level as a soldier, which helps for people who get frustrated rolling a great To Hit and then roll a 1 for damage.
This ability really shines in Starfinder Society where money is at a premium and you want to be spending the most possible on your armor.
Bombard: one grenade a fight. Grenades are very Meh in this system
One grenade per fight is often all you need before everyone gets mixed up in melee. While you are right that grenades are somewhat lackluster, having a character-level grenade every fight to toss as an opener can be a game-changer, especially those with special effects. Has there been a ruling on whether or not Bombard Soldiers can make the Armory hybrid grenades? Chucking a summon grenade might be pretty fun.
Guard: you are better at using armor in a system where armor won't stop you from being hit. You are either ranged (in which case you dont need armor) or melee (in which case its going to be a few levels before the max dex matters)
Hard disagree. If you have top level, updated armor, you can avoid being hit maybe half the time, at least to my experience in Society. Since AC is at such a premium, any point you can squeeze out matters. Guard and Armor Savant have saved our soldiers a bunch of damage.
True, but you don't get 1st level Melee Striker to go along with it. 1d4+6 damage for a 1st level Soldier with 18 Str is extremely respectable,
Or you can just be a vesk (so.. 3/4s of all non dipping soldiers?), or better yet, a vesk with a ring of fangs and improved unarmed strike.
Worrying about rolling a 1 on a non vesk soldier melee operative is such a niche market that is really really small
This ability really shines in Starfinder Society where money is at a premium and you want to be spending the most possible on your armor.
Or just accept that you'll be hit and buy a few healing potions.
One grenade per fight is often all you need before everyone gets mixed up in melee.
These are a few problems with grenades
1) This system rewards specialization. You make yourself good at one thing and then spam that thing as often as you can. You use abilities to make yourself better at that thing (like weapon focus) or to make sure you can do that thing (like getting a jetpack for melee against flying enemies) Grenades as an opening volley means you're not as good at something else.
2) Grenades spread their damage out. But someone with 1 hp and 100 hp still hit you just as hard. You want to deadify the bad guys(or rehorizontalize them if they're already dead) not injure them
3) Granades are good against lots of mooks but the hard fights are against smaller groups.
If you have top level, updated armor, you can avoid being hit maybe half the time, at least to my experience in Society. Since AC is at such a premium, any point you can squeeze out matters. Guard and Armor Savant have saved our soldiers a bunch of damage.
But you can't keep getting top level armor and have reasonable amounts of other gear. You need to go a few levels without upgrading
It also seems to be less than 50 against boss fights, which are the ones where you're really worried about getting hit.
@BigNorseWolf
You're not ever going to get +6 to damage as a soldier at 1st level outside of Armor Storm, to my knowledge. Everything you referenced is 3rd level specialization to get bonus damage.
I'm honestly not happy that Ring of Fangs exists and would just as soon forget it; 315 credits to get better than the vesk racial unarmed strike is a little much.
I've avoided so much damage in SFS just by buying the best armor every 2-3 levels that it's probably paid for itself in Mk. 1 healing serums. My GM routinely grumbles that it's hard to hurt me. You're right, you do have to prioritize; right now at 7th level I've been buying augmentations, armor upgrades, and a reach weapon with fusions, so I'm actually going to go an extra level or two without upgrading my armor; it is a little worrisome, but I think that the upgrades will be worth it in the long run, and let me concentrate on the better armor, later.
And it may be less than 50% protection against bosses, but I'm counting my lucky stars every time the boss misses that attack roll by 1 or 2.
Of all the Starfinder soldiers I've ever seen played, I've observed that fully half of them were blitz soldiers, with the other half being all the other soldier types combined.
The ring of fangs is pretty obscene. Although it doesn't take away the Archaic property. But it seems that if a vesk wore it, that would be solved. Uglier, if a nuar wore it, probably also :(
It grants you a natural attack. Natural attacks don't have the archaic property.
The ring of fangs is pretty obscene. Although it doesn't take away the Archaic property. But it seems that if a vesk wore it, that would be solved. Uglier, if a nuar wore it, probably also :(It grants you a natural attack. Natural attacks don't have the archaic property.
Doesn't say anything about a "natural attack" as in the race feature or the Natural Weapons universal monster rule.
Just says that your unarmed attacks with the bite do lethal piercing damage and you get a ridiculous weapon specialization bonus.
So, upon review, I'm pretty sure it's still archaic unless you have natural weapons naturally or have Improved Unarmed Strike. Maybe that's why the specialization bonus is so large... to get past the -5 penalty.
Correct about the ring of Fangs not removing the archaic property, but Improved Unarmed Strike also doesn't.
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The ring of fangs is pretty obscene. Although it doesn't take away the Archaic property. But it seems that if a vesk wore it, that would be solved. Uglier, if a nuar wore it, probably also :(It grants you a natural attack. Natural attacks don't have the archaic property.
Doesn't say anything about a "natural attack" as in the race feature or the Natural Weapons universal monster rule.
Just says that your unarmed attacks with the bite do lethal piercing damage and you get a ridiculous weapon specialization bonus.
So, upon review, I'm pretty sure it's still archaic unless you have natural weapons naturally or have Improved Unarmed Strike. Maybe that's why the specialization bonus is so large... to get past the -5 penalty.
It seems to me that the ring is intended to only apply to said bite attack and not all unarmed strikes. FAQ'd
EDIT: Hey, where did the FAQ button go!?
EDIT: Hey, where did the FAQ button go!?
It's only available in the rules forum threads.
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Starfinder doesn't differentiate between an unarmed strike and a natural attack. A natural attack merely augments unarmed strikes.
So when a Vesk has armed unarmed strikes that are not archaic and it doesn't matter what they do: they can punch you, they can kick you, they can bite you, they can whack you with their tail.
The ring makes it so you need to specify your unarmed strike as a bite anad changes the damages from B to piercing , although there's no need to use it if you suddenly need to whap a skeleton or something.
The ring makes it so you need to specify your unarmed strike as a bite anad changes the damages from B to piercing , although there's no need to use it if you suddenly need to whap a skeleton or something.
(not that Skeletons take less damage from non-bludgeoning kinetic attacks anymore; they have DR 5/magic and you might as well use your highest damage attack if you don't have a magic weapon).
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Yeah, I'll admit that Magical Mu, my melee technomancer, dipped Blitz.
I looked at all the other soldier styles. I truly did. I was planning to do 'anything but Blitz' and then I realized that Blitz not only offered that bonus to initiative, but also a lovely bonus to my Nuar charge speed. I joined the herd even when I tried to rise above it to do something else!
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As for the Armor comment, I agree with Dracomicron that good armor is the best investment you can make on a character. Most players I know will bypass weapon upgrades to prioritize excellent armor.
In my experience, good armor on a frontliner means that sometimes the monsters miss you. I'm not sure that they miss half the time (though it would be easy to check the math using Alien Archive monster creation tables), but they do miss at least a third of the time. This is huge, because in Starfinder, you just expect to get hit and injured!
Armor is a fantastic investment to make on your characters. I'll admit that I have scoured AP and Alien Archives 1 & 2 looking for interesting armor alternatives. Combined with Armory, there's a lot of fascinating options out there to choose from!
Hmm
More to the point of this thread, whether armor helps you or not in general Guards increase in the max dex bonus is unlikely to help anyone but a highly specialized meatwall build right away. Yous start with a 14 dex, and just don't get golem forged.
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At level 5 you up your dex and snag Vesk overplate 1
At level 10 you up your dex again and snag lashunta ringwear
How is a dex ranged fighter who chooses Guard a highly specialized anything? Making yourself and your adjacent ally more durable as you shoot stuff is a perfectly fine choice.