Host Shirren go by the singular they.Androids don't have a gender, any more than a mannequin has a gender, mannequins are built to look either male or female, but they are neither, the same is true of Androids. Androids by definition are robots designed to look human, in order to look human, they have to be designed to look either like a male human or a female human, sex has nothing to do with Android reproduction as they are built in factories.
Androids in other fiction yes, but Androids in Starfinder have genders and can even reproduce with other races. They’re Humanoids, not Robots.
Androids in other fiction yes, but Androids in Starfinder have genders and can even reproduce with other races. They’re Humanoids, not Robots.
Where was this stated?
It's hinted at in the racial write-up. They don't see a *need* for it, because some of them view it as a call-back to being 'cast in their creator's image/slavery'.
However, there's nothing saying that they can't have gender identity, and as humanoids(Android subtype) a Serum of Sex Shift would work for them?
Yep.
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Androids in other fiction yes, but Androids in Starfinder have genders and can even reproduce with other races. They’re Humanoids, not Robots.Host Shirren go by the singular they.Androids don't have a gender, any more than a mannequin has a gender, mannequins are built to look either male or female, but they are neither, the same is true of Androids. Androids by definition are robots designed to look human, in order to look human, they have to be designed to look either like a male human or a female human, sex has nothing to do with Android reproduction as they are built in factories.
Actually, based on what info we have on androids, you're both partially right. Androids do indeed have all the physical sex markers of other species (well, of humans, to be specific)...except the ability to breed and have children in the conventional sense. Which is not built in.
So, depending on how one defines biological sex it's arguable whether they have one in the strictest biological sense...but I'd argue that they do for most layman's purposes (they have all the proper hormones, as well as primary and secondary sex characteristics, for the physical sex they were built as, for example).
But regardless, that's sex, not gender. Many androids disdain gender identity per se due to the 'not breeding' thing and it being artificially imposed in some ways, but many others indisputably have a gender identity (whether one that conforms to how they were originally built or not), and they can certainly change their physical sex characteristics to conform with any such identity (or lack thereof) with an Serum of Sex Shift.
So androids definitely have gender and sex for most practical purposes other than biological reproduction.
Ah okay, I went and reread the Android section and it does say they do not reproduce in the “Human fashion”.
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Going back a bit to the discusion of the Vesk and sexuality there.
In my head cannon the Vesk are basically Rome.
You cant be great at war if you are fighting people with lazer swords while you use a pointy stick.
In this sense they will value intellect, in its ability to influence warfare.
This is where they differ the most from Rome to me. Rome valued all intellect, with philosophy being just as valuable as other pursuits.
I could see philosophy being important to the Vesk though as well. "What does it truly mean to conquer?" as an example of a philosophical question that would be important to the society.
Where I was going before this sidetrack was that we often hear than in ancient Rome, gender just didn't matter in what you were attracted to.
I feel that the Vesk literally don't care enough about someone's gender. Each Vesk will appreciate different things. Some favouring physical brawn, while others may favour the intelect required to draw up a batlle plan and command effectively.
I don't even know what label to apply to my Vesk, but currently she is interested in a female Lashunta.
In a future where people can change their biology at will, where people can change their physical appearance at will, and where there are aliens of all shapes and sizes, the universe would be much more open to any coupling simply because of the ambiguity factor.
-snip-
That does raise up questions regarding the drow, given their -strong- matriarchal lean.
That aside, and to go back on topic with that race in mind, I am certain drow women get along well enough back in pathfinder’s times as well as starfinder. I mean, Nocticula is worshiped by the drow and she was taken by Sarenrae’s daughter* as a lover. I imagine then, at least in that regard, they would be considered a very progressive.
Given just how entrenched and deep-seated the drow matriarchy is, I imagine they had a simular thing going on that the spartans had back in the day, where the ladies hook up with eachother a lot simply becouse its the only way to have intercourse with someone who is 'their equal'.
The spartan tradition of brides dressing up as dudes for the wedding night also comes to mind here. Gives some... interesting societal implications.
The very first character one of my friends made was a large, colorful male Vesk soldier who was constantly mistaken for a female, very much like Francis the ladybug in A Bug's Life.
No matter how unusual the game options are, players will still try and play against type.
That aside, and to go back on topic with that race in mind, I am certain drow women get along well enough back in pathfinder’s times as well as starfinder. I mean, Nocticula is worshiped by the drow and she was taken by Sarenrae’s daughter* as a lover. I imagine then, at least in that regard, they would be considered a very progressive.
Is that speculation your headcannon?
Is that speculation your headcannon?
That aside, and to go back on topic with that race in mind, I am certain drow women get along well enough back in pathfinder’s times as well as starfinder. I mean, Nocticula is worshiped by the drow and she was taken by Sarenrae’s daughter* as a lover. I imagine then, at least in that regard, they would be considered a very progressive.
Which part of it? How drow women behave or the thing regarding Shamira?
If the former: Yes. Though.. Just as often such could be used to ill ends. These are drow after all.
To the latter: Until it is stated otherwise.
To me anyways, Shamira being Sarenrae's daughter works. She serves as a counterpart to Ragathiel. Further, one could paint her in an interesting light (though she could just as easily be a defiant child): That she wants her mother's attention, hence her seduction of good aligned priests, but its possible she has a bigger aspect in mind.. The redemption of a demon lord.
Is that speculation your headcannon?
That aside, and to go back on topic with that race in mind, I am certain drow women get along well enough back in pathfinder’s times as well as starfinder. I mean, Nocticula is worshiped by the drow and she was taken by Sarenrae’s daughter* as a lover. I imagine then, at least in that regard, they would be considered a very progressive.Which part of it? How drow women behave or the thing regarding Shamira?
If the former: Yes. Though.. Just as often such could be used to ill ends. These are drow after all.
To the latter: Until it is stated otherwise.
To me anyways, Shamira being Sarenrae's daughter works. She serves as a counterpart to Ragathiel. Further, one could paint her in an interesting light (though she could just as easily be a defiant child): That she wants her mother's attention, hence her seduction of good aligned priests, but its possible she has a bigger aspect in mind.. The redemption of a demon lord.
Latter. Its only a rumor and has not been confirmed. Unlike say, Nocticula's redemption.
Latter. Its only a rumor and has not been confirmed. Unlike say, Nocticula's redemption.Is that speculation your headcannon?
That aside, and to go back on topic with that race in mind, I am certain drow women get along well enough back in pathfinder’s times as well as starfinder. I mean, Nocticula is worshiped by the drow and she was taken by Sarenrae’s daughter* as a lover. I imagine then, at least in that regard, they would be considered a very progressive.Which part of it? How drow women behave or the thing regarding Shamira?
If the former: Yes. Though.. Just as often such could be used to ill ends. These are drow after all.
To the latter: Until it is stated otherwise.
To me anyways, Shamira being Sarenrae's daughter works. She serves as a counterpart to Ragathiel. Further, one could paint her in an interesting light (though she could just as easily be a defiant child): That she wants her mother's attention, hence her seduction of good aligned priests, but its possible she has a bigger aspect in mind.. The redemption of a demon lord.
This is true. I would like to know the truth there, especially who/what her father was if she is in fact Sarenrae's.
Far as Nocticula's redemption.. I hope that is addressed in Starfinder, be it in published material or at least in a post somewhere.
Latter. Its only a rumor and has not been confirmed. Unlike say, Nocticula's redemption.Is that speculation your headcannon?
That aside, and to go back on topic with that race in mind, I am certain drow women get along well enough back in pathfinder’s times as well as starfinder. I mean, Nocticula is worshiped by the drow and she was taken by Sarenrae’s daughter* as a lover. I imagine then, at least in that regard, they would be considered a very progressive.Which part of it? How drow women behave or the thing regarding Shamira?
If the former: Yes. Though.. Just as often such could be used to ill ends. These are drow after all.
To the latter: Until it is stated otherwise.
To me anyways, Shamira being Sarenrae's daughter works. She serves as a counterpart to Ragathiel. Further, one could paint her in an interesting light (though she could just as easily be a defiant child): That she wants her mother's attention, hence her seduction of good aligned priests, but its possible she has a bigger aspect in mind.. The redemption of a demon lord.
This is true. I would like to know the truth there, especially who/what her father was if she is in fact Sarenrae's.
Far as Nocticula's redemption.. I hope that is addressed in Starfinder, be it in published material or at least in a post somewhere.
If true... Asmodeus?
As a straight guy and I'm not sure how to play it queer. I threw in a random NPC in my session while they were in the Fusion Queen. I didn't want to over play it, but I just kinda had the NPC Ysoki hit on a PC.
Any information on how to do this would be appreciated, I do like the idea of it being a more open galaxy. https://youtu.be/hktB2MlhKIA
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Lance:
Be polite and respectful of player boundaries, and if the table has a set 'rating' limit, keep it within the bounds of that.
Offering polite admiration of a given sentient's attributes (whether it be their mind, their body, their attitude towards life, whatnot) might be a gentle yet appropriate way of carrying the message.
If it gets missed by the character it was aimed at, then make the determination as to whether it is worthwhile to pursue it, or if the NPC is throw-away. If the latter, just step away from it and don't force the issue.
Be ready for the possibility that other characters may attempt to garner the attentions of said NPC.
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The most difficulty I've had with 'queer' things in a game I've run (as a straight male I should add) had to do with a genderfluid character one of my PC's had as a contact.
I was running stars without number for a group of friends and we ended up on our group's soldier's home planet. She wanted to meet up with an old army buddy, who she told me was a genderneutral person (excuse me if I get any of the terminology wrong, I promise it's not out of any form of malice). I'm not the best roleplayer and I'm not terribly experienced with those kinds of people, so it wasn't especially easy to run that in a beleaveable way without running afoul of stupid cliche's or the like. It ended up working out pretty allright, the player was satisfied that the 'challenge' she'd thrown my way (her phrasing) had gone down fairly well. And in the end, even though I'd been quite stressed about doing that 'right' at the time, I'm glad I got to do it and that it went down well with my group.
I guess my takeaway from the incident was to try and distance myself from stereotypes as much as possible and (big shock) try to think of the character as a person seperate of whatever labels where attached. Not the easiest thing in the world when npc building for me usually starts with slapping a few labels together and then filling in gaps and smoothing off edges where needed.
Donno if this'll help anyone, but it seemed relevant and I felt like sharing.
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I always worry (probably irrationally) about what to do about trans representation in various kinds of fictional settings. Whenever I decide I won't make it a big deal for a character to be trans in a given setting, I worry I'm marginalising the problems that they face in real life, especially when something technological or mystical handwaves the physical changes away. That does kind of imply that all their problems would go away if only the change wasn't as difficult as it is, even though the biggest problems are caused by people being just... the worst.
And when trying to invoke the problems they have in real-life nowadays, I worry I'm misrepresenting something I can't fully understand from an outsider position.
I should note that I don't tend to extend that kind of scruteny to anyone else's work, when reading, watching or playing something someone else made I'm generally fine so long as they're not being dicks about the whole thing.
While I've used trans as an example here, this extends to a lot of maligned social groupings in society and how to fit them into games. I try not to be a dick about things and be open to people telling me when I'm messing up somewhere.
I'd love to hear some other people's takes on this.
The best advice I've heard as far as writing transgender characters was imparted two years ago at a panel during GenCon.
The upshot being 'Transition is a small step of the journey. An important one, but the story shouldn't be all about transition, but about the character and how they interact with their environment.'
I've played an FTM character in PFS, and I've been very careful and respectful of boundaries and my fellow players as to broaching that topic though admittedly it is difficult.
I'm heavily considering a MTF character in SFS, though given the setting it wouldn't be so much MTF as female, due to the nature of readily accessible technology and magic.
I think in Starfinder, the more odd things will be people who identify with an entirely different race or a non-traditional gender alignment for their race.
Be cool to each other out there, and remember your fellow players and their characters.
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There's absolutely no incompatibility between the audience knowing a character is somewhere on the LGBT spectrum and normalizing being LGBT. The idea that these are mutually contradictory is laughable.
Have some particular examples shoehorned things in? Probably. Is it inherent in having strong LGBT representation? No.
I've seen a number of shows, read a number of books, and watched a number of movies where one or more characters were gay (or bisexual, or whatever) and they never brought it up any more than they bring up a a character being straight. But, when you think about it, you'd be surprised at how often being straight is brought up.
Most of these examples just have the character, y'know, have a love interest. Or run into an ex. Or otherwise have someone they've been interested in at some point (or are currently) come up. This is bog standard stuff for straight characters, the only reason it'd jump out when they're not straight (and it does jump out, even to me) is that our media culture currently doesn't really view being anything other than straight as normal, and so it's surprising when it's shown (and sometimes goes into tokenism, stereotypes, and 'very special episodes').
Indeed, I've never been remotely surprised when someone I actually knew mentioned not being straight (and this has happened to me around a dozen times)...and yet still am sometimes when it comes up in media, simply because that happening in media not specifically targeted at LGBT people remains a relative rarity.
Despite that, I can think of several TV shows that do that off the top of my head, and many are fine shows (though not all, since having LGBT characters doesn't inherently make your show good).
Now, one of the issues (though by no means the only one) with transgender representation is that it is legitimately harder to bring up casually and in passing, but it's far from impossible, and a lot of other queer representation doesn't suffer those difficulties at all.
Honestly, seven genders feels a bit...well, impractical from a biological standpoint and makes me wonder how such a race developed as it's got a lot of issues where the race could easily go extinct.
I wonder if this was the inspiration.
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Apropos to not much really, I'm highly tempted to create the omnisexual Captain Jack Harkness - Starfinder Edition!
I would completely play a Captain Jack character, or his female or non-gendered equivalent. It would be fun as hell.