**Official** Gen Con 50 Feedback Thread


Pathfinder Society

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4/5

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I'm thinking the 3 tablespoon instant coffee in my latte before bed was not a wise choice.... (*^*)

Dark Archive 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I can echo a lot of things already said here from a position as a muster and station runner.

GMs:

• Thanks for being understanding about the stickers!
• Always be ready for new players, experienced players, slow players; that's the GMs job. No need to make "new player friendly" GM distinctions.

Mustering:

• would be handy to see the tier of the game on the sheet..
• would be handy to have a map of iconic locations.
• would be handy to have the list of games and their iconics per slot.

Boons + Tokens:

• The 4 -> 2 conversion created way more problems than it solved.
• PaizoCon has a "one slot, one prize" system. With that system everyone knew to cash in their token, and most did. Subjectively it felt like a smaller percentage of people held onto tokens at PaizoCon when they could get a prize every time they play.
.

Signage:

• A "map" of iconic locations for the musterers, HQ staff, and player boards would help. Distribute a page with game locations with each pack and to each HQ table will also alleviate any questions about where to go.
• BTW thanks for jumping on improving signage for locations after the Thursday AM slot!

Specials:

• post the plan for generics (where to line up) and share it with all Musterers. Have a board too.
• During specials Have someone walk/manage the line of Generics to keep them informed. We had a huge generic line for our second special, but then the line dissolved mid muster and we ended up with GMs without players
• Cards are awesome, as long as we can stick to only 2-3 primary colors. Us colorblind folk had to guess during the Assault on Absalom on more than a couple occasions.
• the "double diamond" formation for special relays seemed to work well (two in center, two at end of aisle, then one more halfway along each part of the room for a total of four per side, eight total.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Starfinder Superscriber
Quote:

PaizoCon has a "one slot, one prize" system. With that system everyone knew to cash in their token, and most did. Subjectively it felt like a smaller percentage of people held onto tokens at PaizoCon when they could get a prize every time they play.

What do you mean by this? I think you may be remembering wrong -- or I am. What I remember from PaizoCon is that you got one coin each slot, but it took two coins to redeem for a boon roll.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5

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I feel like adding level 10 pregens is a bad answer. Mostly because regardless of how it would be implemented it inevitably will lead to people wanting more of them, or opened up for other scenarios.

Second Seekers (Roheas) 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Appalachia

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Then we cannot seat people who dont have characters in tier for 10-11.

It's that simple.

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Douglas Edwards wrote:

Then we cannot seat people who dont have characters in tier for 10-11.

It's that simple.

Hopefully the new table rationing system will help prevent this.

That being said, what do you tell the player who couldn't get a ticket swapped out and the only ticket they were able to get is 10-11 while you're mustering for say, the 3-4 tables?

Second Seekers (Roheas) 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ***** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Appalachia

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"I am sorry, but it's not fair to everyone else to have to play with a character who won't able to handle the challenges at this subtier"

I am all for inclusiveness, but if we are unwilling to open up level 10 pregens then turning someone away IS the only solution short of someone playing 3-4 but possessing a level 9 10 or 11 character wanting to swap.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ****

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rknop wrote:
Quote:

PaizoCon has a "one slot, one prize" system. With that system everyone knew to cash in their token, and most did. Subjectively it felt like a smaller percentage of people held onto tokens at PaizoCon when they could get a prize every time they play.

What do you mean by this? I think you may be remembering wrong -- or I am. What I remember from PaizoCon is that you got one coin each slot, but it took two coins to redeem for a boon roll.

It was 1 to 1, but they ran out of boons. Which sucked, when compounded with the Gen Con issues.

3/5

I do not want L10 pregens! Tier 10-11 tables (and above) of any scenario, but especially the specials, can really get bogged down. Players must know their PC and play them well and fast. Also, I see playing my PC at a tier 10-11 table as a reward for a lot (years) of work building that PC. Now I really get to see him shine.

At GenCon 2016 I played one of the specials and it seemed that one of the players was playing his PC for just the first or second time. They didn't seem to know how their character worked. It slowed down the game and made it less fun. A high level PC has just too much going on for someone to go up to HQ, pick up a pregen sheet and run the character well. Also, someone running a pregen (at any level) really has nothing to lose if the PC dies. That can have a negative impact on a table.

3/5

As for prize coins. At GenCon 2016 you received two coins for a morning slot and one each for afternoon and evening slots. It required two coins at the prize table to make a roll. This was a change from previous years that had one coin per game. The change was to encourage more people playing the early morning slots and to avoid releasing 30+ GM every morning. I believe in 2016 it did have a positive affect.

If problems and concerns with 2 hour slot games such as previous years of PSA and ACG games can be addressed, I would prefer going back to one game, one coin (the bonus coin in the morning is nice too).

Also, it was mentioned that it's difficult to have multiple prize table. I heard we did have multiple tables this year as the PSA (aka kids area) ran their own prize table. How much more difficult is it to have prizes at ACG HQ? I don't remember seeing any boons or physical product for the card game at the prize table. There should be.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

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We did not have multiple prize tables. In PSA, when my kids started to drag, that was when I knew it was time for all of us to do a run all the way across the Sagamore, singing (softly, so as not to disrupt), jumping and waving at HQ along the way. So PSA kids were rolling at the same boon table as everyone else.

They had different prizes at the same table.

Hmm

Dark Archive 4/5 5/55/5 **** Regional Venture-Coordinator, Massachusetts—North Shore

In 2016 the PSA had it's own Prize table located at the PSA HQ. But ACG and PFS were at the Main Table. This year all of the Prize tables were located at the Main one in the SAG.

The Difference was the Prize Tokens, PSA had their own tokens to give to the Prize booth so people at the prize booth would know which prizes to give to PSA Participants.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5

I had held off on this because GMing can be rough, but some kind of rating might be helpful. I knew I had a dud of a GM for one of the scenarios, but he admitted it was his first PFS table and rules wise it was OK. The fact that he barely spoke above a whisper though was a huge pain. It wasn't a lost voice he just can't be heard. What pushed me over the edge towards complaining though is that I'm now prepping the same scenario and realizing that he skipped over sections, botched running key encounters, and actually completed made up an encounter.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Davor Firetusk wrote:
I had held off on this because GMing can be rough, but some kind of rating might be helpful. I knew I had a dud of a GM for one of the scenarios, but he admitted it was his first PFS table and rules wise it was OK. The fact that he barely spoke above a whisper though was a huge pain. It wasn't a lost voice he just can't be heard. What pushed me over the edge towards complaining though is that I'm now prepping the same scenario and realizing that he skipped over sections, botched running key encounters, and actually completed made up an encounter.

Well since you didn't realize it at the time they couldn't have been that bad...

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5

Well I left wondering the last encounter where there were nearly deaths thinking he had accidentally grabbed the higher tier stats. I now know it was a bizzare encounter with mooks that had the right stats and added NPCs with stats that did not exist anywhere in the scenario (given there were no spell casters). The final encounter is supposed to be pure role play, and somehow we also fought her even though she also had no combat stats. I expect by now that playing a scenario rarely results in completely understanding the story. In this case the mismatch is the worst I've experienced. Luckily it seems to be a scenario that isn't well tied into things that came before. I'd be absolutely livid if this had happened during 9-02, I had a great time with that one at Gencon and enjoying some real storyline payoffs is important.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

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I can guess which scenario you mean, I'm prepping it too. And it's definitely not something I'd put in the hands of a newbie GM, because it looks very tough to convey to players in a comprehensible and satisfying manner.

4/5

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Any updates on the reporting issues for GenCon?

4/5 **** Venture-Agent, New Hampshire—Bow

CheeseStalker wrote:
Any updates on the reporting issues for GenCon?

Was wondering the same thing. I am still missing two scenarios. 1 of 00-01, Silent Tide, and 1 of 9-00, Assault on Absalom. Any update on when these are going to be posted?

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Willis Sloat wrote:
Was wondering the same thing
Bob Jonquet wrote:
We believe there is something wrong with the database as the frequency with which missing data is being reported is well in excess of the occasional missed or forgotten report. Paizo is looking into that. Likewise, 9-00 and season 4 of ACG is not available to report. Both of these issues will make for a lengthy delay in reported material populating. It could be many months before it is corrected depending on Paizo's schedule and workload.

4/5

Bob Jonquet wrote:
It could be many months before it is corrected depending on Paizo's schedule and workload.

That doesn't mean that Paizo should just be quiet about it until it is fixed. GenCon Leads could send out an email every now and again, with just a quick update "We are still experiencing reporting issues, thanks for your patience." Or something like that. It wouldn't take that long, or that much effort. If you want a suggestion for how to improve stuff, communication about issues like this after the fact. Once or twice a month, send an email with an update. Or post it to the Paizo blog. But we shouldn't have to come to a message board, with a legitimate concern, just to have a previous answer quoted back to us. I even emailed both reporting issues and GenCon Leads back in August, and still haven't received a response from either. Not even anything acknowledging that they received the email and are looking into it.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Why are people so concerned about the reporting?

Scarab Sages 5/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Why are people so concerned about the reporting?

Its a really convenient way to make sure your character is up to date when you are away from your paperwork. If it isn't reported, you can't double check and update hero lab until you get home.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

And it's really damn convenient when I need to audit a player/character for sessions.

I've taken to tracking my own sessions separately for audit and planning purposes.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Why are people so concerned about the reporting?

Because it is how Stars/Novas appear by our names. And I have been waiting on 3 Starfinder Tables to get posted so I can show my first Nova. I should have gotten it the Thursday after Gencon. But with the reporting problem, it does not show up. I am not even convinced that my problem is related to what Bob has talked about. I did send a detail email about a week after Gencon to the reporting address, but didn't receive an acknowledgement.

It is pretty important to me. But I am a small fish in a much larger pond. So I guess I will just wait. Frustrated.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

CheeseStalker wrote:
That doesn't mean that Paizo should just be quiet about it until it is fixed. GenCon Leads could send out an email every now and again, with just a quick update "We are still experiencing reporting issues, thanks for your patience." Or something like that.

In this particular case, I disagree. You are welcome to come to the boards and post update requests as often as you would like. We are volunteers just the same as the rest of our Gen Con staff and as such rarely have any more insight into these types of issues than anyone else does. I am sorry if you disagree, but I have better use of my time than to come to the forums twice a month (more/less) just to post, "yep, status quo." Now, if Paizo wants to respond to your requests for an update, that is their prerogative and I cannot object to your suggestion that they do so. However, considering the workload they have, I wouldn't be surprised if that does not happen. I am confident they will tell us when the issue is resolved. It is a big enough deal that I would assume that announcement will be made in both the Gen Con Feedback threads as well as part of a blog post. Additionally, once it has been announced, our Lead team will send an email to all the GMs on our Gen Con roster.

Now, that being said, coincidentally, I just received word that Paizo believes the problem of missing tables might stem from invalid character numbers (meaning the character is not registered) causing the table to be hidden. They are working on a script to fix that and see if the issue is resolved.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Gary Bush wrote:
...but didn't receive an acknowledgement

With over 300 GMs affected and possibly more if this issue extents beyond Gen Con reporting which is certainly might, we simply do not have to time to respond to every single email submitted, given everything else we are responsible for, especially when we have already noted the issue in the various forum threads. We depend on the community of VO to help notify people of the status if the subject comes up in an unrelated thread or a new one is started.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Why are people so concerned about the reporting?

I also ask the same question. If you are maintaining your chronicle sheets, what is online is mostly irrelevant. Personally, I rarely even look at my GM history.

However, for some, it CAN be an issue for a few reasons. First, if you lose your chronicle sheets (fire, theft, water damage, etc) having the history online means you can, with your VC's help, replace those missing chronicle sheets and restore your character to a "legal" status. Otherwise you are either SOL or some exception has to be made, like the VC writing a letter for you yo keep describing the problem so if you are audited, your character is not banned.

Second, reported sessions = stars/novas and many people are actively working towards the vaunted 5-star status. Without the sessions being reported, the VC cannot do the requisite audit of your sessions to verify compliance.

Lastly, perhaps the least important, but valuable nonetheless is having a history you can reference which can help if you are trying to figure out if you already took PC credit for a particular scenario or not. Or maybe you are trying to locate a player from a past table. Having the session reported makes it much easier to research those types of inquiries.

Scarab Sages 5/5

Bob Jonquet wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:
...but didn't receive an acknowledgement
With over 300 GMs affected and possibly more if this issue extents beyond Gen Con reporting which is certainly might, we simply do not have to time to respond to every single email submitted, given everything else we are responsible for, especially when we have already noted the issue in the various forum threads. We depend on the community of VO to help notify people of the status if the subject comes up in an unrelated thread or a new one is started.

Then delegate. Sending a request for help or with an error, and getting no response whatsoever (not even a response of, "This appears to be a problem on Paizo's end, they are looking into it. Once it is fixed on their end, we will report the session.") is demoralizing. Folks are like, "Did you see my complaint? Am I going to get my issue resolved? Am I going to fall through the cracks?"

I've been a volunteer before, and I would take the time to send 300 copy/pasted messages like above.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne

Bob Jonquet wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Why are people so concerned about the reporting?

I also ask the same question. If you are maintaining your chronicle sheets, what is online is mostly irrelevant. Personally, I rarely even look at my GM history.

However, for some, it CAN be an issue for a few reasons. First, if you lose your chronicle sheets (fire, theft, water damage, etc) having the history online means you can, with your VC's help, replace those missing chronicle sheets and restore your character to a "legal" status. Otherwise you are either SOL or some exception has to be made, like the VC writing a letter for you yo keep describing the problem so if you are audited, your character is not banned.

Second, reported sessions = stars/novas and many people are actively working towards the vaunted 5-star status. Without the sessions being reported, the VC cannot do the requisite audit of your sessions to verify compliance.

Lastly, perhaps the least important, but valuable nonetheless is having a history you can reference which can help if you are trying to figure out if you already took PC credit for a particular scenario or not. Or maybe you are trying to locate a player from a past table. Having the session reported makes it much easier to research those types of inquiries.

I can tell you this from my experiences working with another Organized Play Campaign that steadily showed less and less concern for reporting and eventually did away with it. Lack of concern for reporting shows a lack of concern for the members and volunteer staff of the Organized Play Campaign that can lead to serious morale issues. Note that I am not in anyway suggesting that Piezo is doing this. I am simply giving an answer to the question as to why some may be concerned.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 **** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Bob Jonquet wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:
...but didn't receive an acknowledgement
With over 300 GMs affected and possibly more if this issue extents beyond Gen Con reporting which is certainly might, we simply do not have to time to respond to every single email submitted, given everything else we are responsible for, especially when we have already noted the issue in the various forum threads. We depend on the community of VO to help notify people of the status if the subject comes up in an unrelated thread or a new one is started.

I understand. My comment was not meant to be "dig" at anyone and if it was taken that way I apologize. I was taking a fact, but looking back, that fact is a hot button for some.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I do what I can, but the sad reality is that TOZ can no longer be omnipresent. Such is life.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

As much as I'd like to come in every day and make an amusing comment telling everyone that there is no change in status, I'm just not that clever.

Scarab Sages 5/5

TOZ wrote:
As much as I'd like to come in every day and make an amusing comment telling everyone that there is no change in status, I'm just not that clever.

I don't necessarily think that the poster who wanted a constant update here is correct. I don't think that should be necessary.

But a response to an email query is just polite and professional so that the players know their request has been received, heard, and a fix is being worked on. Its rude and unprofessional, no matter how overworked you are, not send out zero responses in over a month.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Tallow wrote:
Its rude and unprofessional, no matter how overworked you are, not send out zero responses in over a month.

Considering the information has been posted in numerous places in the forums and many people have received email responses, but continue to ask the question despite being told "many months" is hardly "zero responses" and saying so is frankly insulting to the hundreds of hard-working volunteers who are doing this with little to no reward outside of personal satisfaction. Nor is it reasonable to expect people who are already volunteering very large portions of their free time to manage the workload of OP to have to repeat the same asked and answered question every time it comes up. Hell, Paizo staff is being paid and they cannot keep up with it either.

4/5 ****

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Hey Andrew/Bob - Rather than continue off topic I've created a thread to continue your discussion.

**Unofficial** Andrew and Bob complain at each other thread

Thanks. :P

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

I was hoping for a Dance Off.

★ ---- ★ ---- ★ ---- ★

Everyone, there is a thread on Website Feedback for the Missing GM Credits issue. Let's post there so that we can let the website team know this is an important issue to us.

I know that I am not the only person hoping this gets fixed soon. I am missing games from every Convention in which I participated in 2017. I keep GMing, but my tables have not been going up. It's making me a bit worried that I won't make 5 star by PaizoCon, because I keep having GM credits go missing.

Hmm

Sovereign Court 4/5 * Organized Play Manager

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A Gen Con Feedback thread isn't the place for Web Issues.

It is also not the place to criticize our volunteer team. They do huge amounts of work for the joy of participating.

If you want to call me out for not answering, go for it. I can handle the criticism, and it has merit. I get 100+ emails a day. I try to answer them, but don't always get to. The Org Play team have added two campaigns to their docket (ACG and SFS) without adding additional clerical support. Customer Service, who usually backs me up, is beset by their own issues (book bindings, anyone?). Tech, who are working on the issue and are best suited to post an update, don't look in OP forums. They look in Website Feedback threads. To those that got answers, it is because they emailed me direct, instead of sending to the reportingerrors email address. Because this isn't a reporting error issue - like fixing character type or correcting prestige amounts. It is a bug on the website.

When I have a choice between issuing convention support or answering reporting error emails, or adding Venture Officers to the team or reading the forums, I tend to go for the actvities that will most impact the org play family as a whole. To those I've slighted by making this choice, my apologies. In a perfect world, we will add staff (see our job postings) until we have time to do everything. Until then, we have to play pick and choose.

So update - tech has been notified, has investigated the issue, found several potential causes that happened during recent updates, and are writing fixes/testing their work. To note, this issue isn't limited to Gen Con sessions. It is any session that fits certain parameters.

TL;DR - We are proactively working the situation and hopes to have a fix soon.

So now that I've listed what this thread isn't for, let's list what it is good for. It is the place for constructive criticism on what we can fix for Gen Con 2018. Signage, scheduling, boon tokens...all of these are areas where we can improve and I appreciate your posts and suggestions.

Please put the vitriol to bed and bring the discussion back on topic. Thanks!

Lantern Lodge Customer Service Manager

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Removed some posts. All parties involved know better than to bicker on the messageboards with each other. If you feel another poster is violating our community guidelines, please flag it and move on.
As Hmm pointed out, there is a thread for the GM Credits here: Missing PFS GM Credits. Please take feedback regarding that issue to that thread. (PS: My current understanding is that the issue is active with our tech team).

4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well this kind of spiraled out of what I had intended. First off, let me say @Bob Jonquet, if what I said came across as overly critical of yourself, or offensive, please accept my apology. I was merely expressing my frustration at what, to some, may be a trivial matter, but to myself, I am legitimately concerned, and to that concern, I have received very little acknowledgment or updates (for example, let's say you take your car to the mechanic, and they say it will take a while, but they never update you, you get frustrated - I know the differences between that and a volunteer like yourself) and for that again, I apologize. In my comments, I intended absolutely no "vitriol" or ill will. I again understand the amount of workload on the volunteers, however, I will respectfully disagree that this isn't the place for this concern (maybe to the degree it got taken to today, sure, it should not have gotten this heated), however, if you want honest feedback on things to improve, reporting and communication are very big issues that could use improvement. I will consider the issue at this point put to rest, and again, please accept my apologies.

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