Sorcerer Bloodlines


Advice


I've narrowed down the choice of bloodlines b/w Arcane and Sage.

With the bloodline Arcane I get a huge host of bonus feats and spells.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines -from-paizo/arcane-bloodline

With Sage I get to use my INT mod instead of charisma so I will be able to use so many more skills. It comes at a big cost though, losing all my bloodline spells and feats..

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/archetypes/paizo-sorc erer-archetypes/wildblooded/mutated-bloodlines-paizo/sage/

Of course if you think there's any other bloodlines that are just as good let me know, sooo many to go through.

Any recommendations as to which of the two bloodlines to choose would be great. I am a battlefield control sorcerer.

Thanks!


You don't lose the bloodline spells and feats...? The mutated bloodline features replace only what they say they replace. You lose arcane bond and the DC boost to metamagicked spells, and you gain Int-based casting and a force ray.

Edit: Which is better depends on your build. If you're not interested in Charisma-based skills or effects, including some mind-affecting spells, then the focus on Int gets you more skill points and languages, both of which are handy.


unless you are planning on going undead or dipping into something else that needs cha the int based sorc would probably be best in your case


CHA can get you Eldritch Heritage feats, get CHA to initiative with Noble Scion, and get CHA to many important Will saves with Irrepressible. Also, social skills benefit. Otherwise, INT is overall more useful for skills.


BadBird wrote:
CHA can get you Eldritch Heritage feats, get CHA to initiative with Noble Scion, and get CHA to many important Will saves with Irrepressible. Also, social skills benefit. Otherwise, INT is overall more useful for skills.

Don't forget outside PFS you can get Desna's shooting star and have CHA to attack and damage with a starknife.

But what I am unsure is can you still take bloodline familiar and trade out the Sage Arcane Bolt for an Arcane familiar. Not sure how Wild Bloodlines work with the ability from Familiar Folio.


Louise Bishop wrote:
BadBird wrote:
CHA can get you Eldritch Heritage feats, get CHA to initiative with Noble Scion, and get CHA to many important Will saves with Irrepressible. Also, social skills benefit. Otherwise, INT is overall more useful for skills.

Don't forget outside PFS you can get Desna's shooting star and have CHA to attack and damage with a starknife.

But what I am unsure is can you still take bloodline familiar and trade out the Sage Arcane Bolt for an Arcane familiar. Not sure how Wild Bloodlines work with the ability from Familiar Folio.

if you get a lvl 1 bloodrager or sorc bloodline power from any were you can trade it for a familiar

Grand Lodge

Actually its limited to only certain bloodlines, so you cannot trade out the first level Sage bloodline power for a bloodline familiar as its not on the list.

bloodline familiars wrote:
At 1st level, a sorcerer, bloodrager, or any other character with one of the following bloodlines can choose to gain a bloodline familiar.


Jurassic Pratt wrote:

Actually its limited to only certain bloodlines, so you cannot trade out the first level Sage bloodline power for a bloodline familiar as its not on the list.

bloodline familiars wrote:
At 1st level, a sorcerer, bloodrager, or any other character with one of the following bloodlines can choose to gain a bloodline familiar.

That's why I'm unsure because it basically is the arcane bloodline just the wild version.

I think the arcane bolt is useless after level 3 so I always hate that power.

Grand Lodge

Mutated Bloodlines are in fact their own bloodlines afaik.


Clarification Question on taking Sage vs Arcane Bloodline.

If I end up taking the Sage Bloodline.

I keep all bonus spells listed in arcane bloodline.
I keep all bonus feats(3) listed in arcane bloodline.

Arcane Bolt replaces Arcane Bond at level 1.

I keep all bloodline powers stated in arcane bloodline for levels 3, 9,15 and 20.

It says for Sage, that Using Bloodline Arcana (switching to use of INT instead of CHA) - this ability replaces the arcane bloodline arcana. Which states:

Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you apply a metamagic feat to a spell that increases the slot used by at least one level, increase the spell’s DC by +1. This bonus does not stack with itself and does not apply to spells modified by the Heighten Spell feat.

I lose the ability to get a familiar. Am I able to get a familiar later on? Perhaps with feats?

Hope that makes sense - So It would be arcane bloodline with Sage Archetype?

Liberty's Edge

All of that looks correct. You can gain a familiar with the Familiar Bond and Improved Familiar Bond feats. You need improved for most of the nice features like deliver touch spell, share spell, as well as the special ability they grant, like bonus to saves, initiative, etc. It also requires Iron Will, so 3 feats for a familiar.


Thanks Deighton!

Damn, 3 feats for a familiar seem to much. I'm conflicted about getting a familiar now. Any recommendations? Is it worth the 3 feats?

Grand Lodge

Skill focus + eldritch heritage get it with 2.

Liberty's Edge

If you already have the Arcane bloodline, you can't use eldritch heritage. Sage is just a mutated version of the Arcane bloodline.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Your character will be incredibly different to RP depending on your choice, since you will likely dump the ability you are not using for spellcasting (especially if it is CHA)

Sage is like the know-it-all Wizard, except with inborn spellcasting

Arcane is still the lovable vapid Sorcerer we all know


Deighton Thrane wrote:
If you already have the Arcane bloodline, you can't use eldritch heritage. Sage is just a mutated version of the Arcane bloodline.

they can just not with the arcane bloodline so as long as they can pick a bloodline that has a bloodline familiar they can get a familiar just fine it just scales lower than normal

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

or be a tattooed sorcerer
you lose the several bloodline powers, but get a familiar (which can be a tattoo on you )- handy for safety/sneaking - ...) and some nice Spell likes abilities

note that strict RAW does not allow wildblooded and tattooed (as both modifies bloodlines) but technically they combine perfectly


As a battle-field control mage, Arcane bloodline is pretty solid. You want to use metamagic more and that +1 DC will make some differences. One more creature you can slow done, means one less thing for your group to worry about. My group was able to beat an encounter with CR that over double our APL while having a PC away all because of some good Crowd Control.

However, Sage is equally good overall because the fact that you can focus on just Int instead Cha makes all the differences outside of spell casting. With more Int, you get more skills, you gain more bonus on spellcraft. Since sorcerer normally only get +2 skill points per level, most sorcerer have to add a bit Int to increase their skill points. As Sage, you don't. Which allows you to have flat 10 CHA with +0 modifier and you can put it in INT, which increase your DC overall. That is only if you are doing buy point or have to options to choose your ability scores.

As for their first level bloodline power, Arcane Bond can be both powerful, yet troublesome. While Arcane Blast is very weak, but no string attached. But mind you, with enough INT and knowledge, you can possibly set up some crazy chain reaction traps that require you to break something with 11 hit points. You can do that at least 3 times per day.

Personally, go Arcane. There are more and more options for Familiars. They are so powerful, the downside doesn't really matter. If they die, just wait a week, pay 200 gp per level and spend 8 hours. Far better than Arcane blast, which is weaker than a level 1 spell. At least a claw would let me threaten a square unarmed so the rogue can sneak attack.


DoubleBubble - Where do I get +DC?

I don't have much experience with metamagic, never used it before.

As a human, can I use the favored class at level 1? I.e. Gain 1 spell from sorcerer spell list.

Or do i have to wait til level 2 to recieve a level 1 spell? Just to be clear, this isn't the number of spells I can cast in a day, it's getting another spell to the 'spell known' list which seems better then getting HP or skill class.


Arcane Bloodline grants a +1 DC to spells you apply Metamagic to.


Crexis wrote:

DoubleBubble - Where do I get +DC?

I don't have much experience with metamagic, never used it before.

As a human, can I use the favored class at level 1? I.e. Gain 1 spell from sorcerer spell list.

Or do i have to wait til level 2 to recieve a level 1 spell? Just to be clear, this isn't the number of spells I can cast in a day, it's getting another spell to the 'spell known' list which seems better then getting HP or skill class.

Like BadBird said, it's from your Bloodline Arcana. As sorcerer, you could say that you are more suitable to have Metamagic than Wizard as your can choose which level of spells you want to use on the fly without having to prepare ahead. +1 DC on top of a improved spell is very deadly even in early level. If there is a spell you love to spam that require a saving throw. Consider taking a trait called Magical Lineage. Which lower the increase of spell levels by one when apply metamagic. It's almost a must have for Arcane Sorcerer.


DoubleBubble wrote:
Crexis wrote:

DoubleBubble - Where do I get +DC?

I don't have much experience with metamagic, never used it before.

As a human, can I use the favored class at level 1? I.e. Gain 1 spell from sorcerer spell list.

Or do i have to wait til level 2 to recieve a level 1 spell? Just to be clear, this isn't the number of spells I can cast in a day, it's getting another spell to the 'spell known' list which seems better then getting HP or skill class.

Like BadBird said, it's from your Bloodline Arcana. As sorcerer, you could say that you are more suitable to have Metamagic than Wizard as your can choose which level of spells you want to use on the fly without having to prepare ahead. +1 DC on top of a improved spell is very deadly even in early level. If there is a spell you love to spam that require a saving throw. Consider taking a trait called Magical Lineage. Which lower the increase of spell levels by one when apply metamagic. It's almost a must have for Arcane Sorcerer.

meta magic master will also lower the cost by 1 but only for a lvl 3 or lower spell works good in tandem with magical lineage


Crexis wrote:


As a human, can I use the favored class at level 1? I.e. Gain 1 spell from sorcerer spell list.

Or do i have to wait til level 2 to recieve a level 1 spell? Just to be clear, this isn't the number of spells I can cast in a day, it's getting another spell to the 'spell known' list which seems better then getting HP or skill class.

It is better than getting an HP or a skill point, usually.

Yes, you can do this at level 1, though technically what you'd get would be an extra cantrip, since it has to be at least one spell level below the highest spell level you can cast.


RoseCrown wrote:
Crexis wrote:


As a human, can I use the favored class at level 1? I.e. Gain 1 spell from sorcerer spell list.

Or do i have to wait til level 2 to recieve a level 1 spell? Just to be clear, this isn't the number of spells I can cast in a day, it's getting another spell to the 'spell known' list which seems better then getting HP or skill class.

It is better than getting an HP or a skill point, usually.

Yes, you can do this at level 1, though technically what you'd get would be an extra cantrip, since it has to be at least one spell level below the highest spell level you can cast.

I tend to just take +1 HP till Level 3 on Spontaneous Casters that can add +1 spell. The cantrips are nice but the extra HP is appreciated throughout the entire life of the character.


I agree with Louise

Grand Lodge

I second


So I don't get level 2 spells til level 4. Does that mean at that level I can use the human favored class and get an extra level 1 spell 'known'?


Crexis wrote:

So I don't get level 2 spells til level 4. Does that mean at that level I can use the human favored class and get an extra level 1 spell 'known'?

Yes


Louise Bishop wrote:


I tend to just take +1 HP till Level 3 on Spontaneous Casters that can add +1 spell. The cantrips are nice but the extra HP is appreciated throughout the entire life of the character.

I absolutely agree!


If you dont mind the religion/alignment the Wasp Familiar feat to get you arguably the best basic familair out there (+4 initiative; flies) for only 1 feat

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