| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The archetype system of Starfinder intrigued me when I read it as it applies to all classes, meaning the concepts you implement through it don't have to be class-specific and can, instead, represent broad character archetypes in the traditional sense of archetypes (as opposed to the mechanical sense).
That, in turn, feels interesting to experiment with.
Here, for example, I tried to implement a vampire "template" through archetypes and I think it showcases how the archetype system can be used for unexpected things across a broad spectrum of ideas and to provide more character creation options.
One thing that I dislike about the archetype system, though, is that different classes lose very different things from it, making the system feel very unbalanced overall: a Soldier who takes Phrenic Adept simply loses bonus feats, keeping all their main class features and not really losing anything important from it; a Solarian who takes Phrenic Adept doesn't get their first non-Zenith Revelation until level 8 and their second until level 14, practically crippling the class, given how strongly it is reliant on Revelations; an Envoy who takes Phrenic adept is stuck with only one Improvisation until level 8, which is very harsh when Improvisations are nearly the only class feature Envoys get.
I would have strongly preferred if it worked like VMC in Pathfinder, giving up feats for archetype features.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
As a potential homebrew adjustment that makes archetypes more like VMC, here's this:
Features gained at levels 2, 4, 6, 12, and 18 are moved to 3, 5, 7, 13, and 17 respectively.
Features gained at level 9 stay at their original level, not being moved anywhere.
All features replace feats gained at respective levels instead of class features.
Since replacements are tied to feats, archetypes are linked to character level instead of class level, applying across all classes instead to only one class of the player's choice.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I agree that what different classes give up don't seem to be on a par, and that's unfortunate. The archetypes seem like interesting options for Soldiers. But it's hard to see how any archetype will ever be a viable option for Solarians. (Which is too bad, since Solarians seem like the class that might most benefit from some Pathfinder-style archetypes.)
Your VMC-alternative... sounds pretty good, actually. It ensures balance between what different classes give up. It puts the abilities at pretty much the right levels, power-wise. And given the optional nature of feats in Starfinder, it makes the archetypes viable choices for every class.
Nice. I like it. I might adopt something like this myself.
I agree that what different classes give up don't seem to be on a par, and that's unfortunate. The archetypes seem like interesting options for Soldiers. But it's hard to see how any archetype will ever be a viable option for Solarians. (Which is too bad, since Solarians seem like the class that might most benefit from some Pathfinder-style archetypes.)
Your VMC-alternative... sounds pretty good, actually. It ensures balance between what different classes give up. It puts the abilities at pretty much the right levels, power-wise. And given the optional nature of feats in Starfinder, it makes the archetypes viable choices for every class.
Nice. I like it. I might adopt something like this myself.
I'm glad you like it.
Is there any class that currently can reasonably take an Archetype other than soldier? Maybe an operative, but I don't think I'd really want to with any other class.
I'm glad you like it.I agree that what different classes give up don't seem to be on a par, and that's unfortunate. The archetypes seem like interesting options for Soldiers. But it's hard to see how any archetype will ever be a viable option for Solarians. (Which is too bad, since Solarians seem like the class that might most benefit from some Pathfinder-style archetypes.)
Your VMC-alternative... sounds pretty good, actually. It ensures balance between what different classes give up. It puts the abilities at pretty much the right levels, power-wise. And given the optional nature of feats in Starfinder, it makes the archetypes viable choices for every class.
Nice. I like it. I might adopt something like this myself.
Yet another perk of your suggestion that I didn't mention above: because all of the archetypes Paizo puts out will be balanced with with the Soldier in mind (among other things), we're more or less guaranteed to have archetype features which are worth about a feat each. So the VMC-style approach you suggest is pretty much guaranteed to balanced for any archetype Paizo comes up with.
Nice!
(Have thought about posting this suggestion in the "How will you change Starfinder in your home games?" thread? I suspect it's a house rule that a number of people will find appealing. And that's the most natural thread for people to comb through looking for potential house rules.)
I'm glad you like it.I agree that what different classes give up don't seem to be on a par, and that's unfortunate. The archetypes seem like interesting options for Soldiers. But it's hard to see how any archetype will ever be a viable option for Solarians. (Which is too bad, since Solarians seem like the class that might most benefit from some Pathfinder-style archetypes.)
Your VMC-alternative... sounds pretty good, actually. It ensures balance between what different classes give up. It puts the abilities at pretty much the right levels, power-wise. And given the optional nature of feats in Starfinder, it makes the archetypes viable choices for every class.
Nice. I like it. I might adopt something like this myself.
Yet another perk of your suggestion that I didn't mention above: because all of the archetypes Paizo puts out will be balanced with with the Soldier in mind (among other things), we're more or less guaranteed to have archetype features which are worth about a feat each. So the VMC-style approach you suggest is pretty much guaranteed to balanced for any archetype Paizo comes up with.
Nice!
(Have thought about posting this suggestion in the "How will you change Starfinder in your home games?" thread? I suspect it's a house rule that a number of people will find appealing. And that's the most natural thread for people to comb through looking for potential house rules.)
Ok, I'll repost it there.
Is there any class that currently can reasonably take an Archetype other than soldier? Maybe an operative, but I don't think I'd really want to with any other class.
Soldier is definitely the most attractive class to use an archetype with.
I could also imagine using an archetype with the Mystic or Technomancer classes, since they generally just delay progressions and limit amounts of things (e.g., spells known), instead of depriving you entirely of their central class features for 2/3rds of an AP.
I personally can't imagine taking an archetype (at least not a total replacement one, like the ones in the CRB) with the Envoy, Mechanic, Operative or Solarian classes. They have to give up their central class features (and the features which make these classes fun to play) until level 8, or the first 2/3rds of an AP. And even after that they only get to pick from those features a handful of times.