I was looking at a few different threads discussing the various character roles and thought it would be a good idea to create a consolidated list. Here is what I have so far:
Character Roles
Battlefield Controller. Typically a wizard, this character uses their abilities to change the battlefield conditions so as to be favourable to their allies and/or unfavourable to their enemies. This is effectively an indirect form of buffing/de-buffing.
Blaster. Typically a sorcerer, this character specialises in inflicting large amounts of damage to multiple enemies, usually through area of effect spells like fireball. A Blaster that can inflict huge amounts of damage but is relatively weak defensively is sometimes referred to a glass cannon.
Buffer. Typically a bard, cleric or wizard, this is a character who focuses on directly improving the mechanical abilities of their allies.
Crafter. A character who builds or supplies equipment, which could be mundane, technological or magical to benefit their allies. This is typically the party wizard.
De-buffer. A character focused on reducing the mechanical effectiveness of their enemies directly rather than indirectly through battlefield control or tactical means. The witch is the classic de-buffer character class.
Face. This character is focused on the social interactions within the game. Any character class can be the face of the party but in practice it tends to be classes that favour high charisma scores like: bards, paladins, sorcerers and clerics.
Healer. A character focused on healing damage and condition removal, sometimes referred to as the healbot. This is typically a cleric or oracle and other classes like alchemists and paladins can make good secondary healers.
Leader. The party leader. This character is focused on getting the party to cooperate and pursue a common goal. This can be any character class although in practice most players will build a character that makes sense mechanically, for example they may have high charisma and/or the leadership feat. The Leader and Face are often the same character.
Melee Fighter. A character focused on engaging the enemy in melee combat. This is typically a monk, barbarian, paladin or fighter. Melee Fighters often fulfil the role of Tank.
Ranged Fighter. Typically a gunslinger, alchemist or archery focused ranger or fighter. This character specialises in dealing damage to the enemy from a distance.
Scholar. This is a character who focuses on being very knowledgeable and sharing that knowledge with the other characters to improve their decision making. Mechanically this is a character that focuses on knowledge skills such as a bard or wizard.
Scout. This is a character who specialises in finding potential threats and other things of interest without revealing their own location. Typically rogues and rangers make excellent Scouts.
Skill Master. Also unkindly referred to as the skill monkey. This is a character with a large number of skills at a relatively high level. Their role is to fill the skill gaps within the party. Typical classes include: bards, rogues and wizards although other classes like alchemists, rangers and inquisitors can adequately fulfil this role as well.
Summoner. This character summons, creates or otherwise procures NPCs to support the party. This is most commonly summoners or druids but can also be specialist wizards like conjurers or necromancers, or any character class with the leadership feat.
Survivalist. This character helps the party find food, water, shelter and cope with various natural hazards. Typically, rangers and druids.
Tank. A really tough character that is hard to damage and/or can take a lot of punishment. Ideally when in combat they are positioned so that they can prevent enemies from engaging more fragile party members like glass cannons (see Blaster). Tanks are typically barbarians, fighters or paladins and often fulfil the additional role of Melee Fighter. In some groups the Tank is replaced with summoned creatures that are uncharitably referred to as meat shields.
Transporter. This character improves the mobility of the party. At mid to high levels this is usually wizards, sorcerers and clerics.
Trap Master. This character is focused on finding and disarming traps and opening locks. Traditionally this is the province of the rogue, but other classes like investigators and rangers have archetypes that can perform this role as well.
Have I missed anything?
Healer and Buffer is usually the same.
Instead of a limited Trap master, you often have your Skill monkey doing both.
In D&D Survivalist isnt much needed.
The list was compiled after searching through previous threads and trying to identify some common themes. Some roles seem to naturally complement each other like Tank and Melee Fighter but if you challenge that idea you sometimes get a more effective and hopefully more interesting character. For example I once had a cleric who was a Tank / Healer / Buffer combination and he was really effective because he became the glue that held the party together without becoming the weak link.
I'm not convinced that Summoner is the right name for the role I had in mind. Maybe Minion Master would be better.
Part of this, if you're going to use it, is that a lot of those "roles" are more of secondary roles, a side thing you cover too.
Like if you made a character that was the skills guy and nothing else, he'd realistically have no place in a party.
Part of this, if you're going to use it, is that a lot of those "roles" are more of secondary roles, a side thing you cover too.
Like if you made a character that was the skills guy and nothing else, he'd realistically have no place in a party.
For example, why a lot of people will say Bards suck.
For example, why a lot of people will say Bards suck.Part of this, if you're going to use it, is that a lot of those "roles" are more of secondary roles, a side thing you cover too.
Like if you made a character that was the skills guy and nothing else, he'd realistically have no place in a party.
YUP!
Any 3/4 bab class is supposed to be able to do combat fine AND cover it's niche. But the issue is most people build their characters to only do their niche and be useless in combat.Bards, investigators, summoners, and rogues for example. Lots of people build them to have like 8 str, 12/14 dex and 12/14 con and then are useless in combat situations. (granted the bards can try to do an offensive casting for combat and summoners have their eidolon) These guys will instead have mental stats of like 18, 14, 12. Which sure, lets them be a skills guy, but their character isn't a good party member and never has a positions. That's why these are considered the best 5th man of a 4 man party. Because people build these bad versions people see the bad versions and think that's all the class can do, and so if they make one, they build a bad version as well, thus the view of these classes being less than useful.
But all of them can do combat awesomely, just start with your attack stat as a 16 or 18 and then have decent other physical stats and still pull off like 12's or 14's in your mental stats. Now you're able to effectively contribute to combat, and still be the skills guy. Sure your skills are only at +15 instead of +18 at lv4, but it's still great enough to do your job WHILE not be a dead weight in combat but a useful member. Now you're a valid ranged attacker or secondary melee attacker and have an actual position in the party, while bringing skills as your secondary role.
and some of these classes have archetypes that can make them more selfish but better personally at combat, like bard has a few archetypes that causes it to not buff the party, but just itself and lets it fill the role of primary melee attacker, while still being quite good at their secondary role of choice.
The traditional roles for a Fantasy Table top game are
Tank: Fighter
Skill Monkey: Rogues
Arcane Caster: Sorcerer/Wizard
Divine Caster: Clerics
All of those other "roles" you listed are just ways these for the 4 arch-types of characters do their Job. A Tank is very often a melee Fighter who protects the party by getting up in the enemy's face. The Skill Monkey is the scout/trap finder and in my experience also the party face because they have the skills to put into bluff/diplomacy/intimidate. An Arcane Caster is a Blaster/Buffer/Controller/De-buff/Summoner/etc depending on what spells they know. A Divine Caster is a Buffer/Healer.
Pretty much every class either falls into one of these roles or between them. The Cavalier is a Tank, a Bard is a Skill Monkey/Arcane Caster, a Paladin is a Tank/Divine Caster, a Druid is a Divine Caster and if they have an animal companion also a Tank, a Magus is a Tank/Arcane Caster.
It is not that you are incorrect in your list of character roles, but you are in a "can't see the forest for the trees" situation. Hyper focusing on details while missing the big picture.
So really a character should have this a Primary role, and Secondary role. Also pretty much able to be summed up as combat role, and out of combat role. Primary roles means you have a reason to be in the party, secondary roles are nice to have but not enough of a reason for the party to want you.
have a 4 man party with 4/5 primary roles covered and you should be able to do well, 3/5 and you should do fine, only having 2/5 is risky business to really hard depending on which 2 they are.
Having a party missing out on multiple secondary roles, and you'll still be able to do fine. Sure you might need to get creating and end up doing more work to gain favors since you can't befriend people otherwise, but there's no critical setback to the party by not having secondary roles covered.
Primary roles:
battlefield controller.
buffer
de-buffer
melee damage
ranged damage
Secondary roles:
crafter
face
scholar
scout
healer (this is for status stuff, not HP healing)
The blaster isn't a role as it's just a version of the role ranged damage. (also it's damage is actually quite lackluster unless really specialized for it.) *you do need some sort of AoE damage source in the party to deal with swarms, but not a full role
leader isn't a role per se, it's more of some player tends to be the guy to steer the party.
skill master is just one that is filling multiple secondary roles, and thus isn't a role in and of itself.
summoner isn't a role, it just is using it's summons to fill a different actual role, like of melee damage or buffs, or summon an angel for status healing or to talk with someone as a face.
survivalist isn't a role since it's just 1 skill, and most of it's stuff can easily be handled by low level spells if NO ONE can be bothered to put a rank into it.
tank isn't a role, due to the fact that you can't draw agro, and you don't actually need to take a lot of damage. Have a controller block off it's means to reach you and then kill it via the buffed ranged damage and then have the melee damage finish it off, party takes minimal damage. Your personal tankiness is just your personal preference for not dying while doing your role.
Transporter isn't a role, as the only thing this is for is for fun, and also is just dependant on if you have someone with a spell for it.
Trap master falls under scout, scouts should be able to spot things well, and traps are something to spot. Then they either use disable device or some other means of bypassing the trap.
The way I see it:
Primary roles:
Striker - remove the enemy's hitpoints
Battlefield control - this is the tank role in D&D/PFRPG, since the way you defend your party is by preventing the enemy from being able to attack them at all; also helps to funnel the enemy into your strikers
*Healer - restore your party's hitpoints and remove harmful conditions
*Face - handle social skill tests for the party
(the ones marked with a * are only primary in ongoing campaign type games; in PFS, they can be considered secondary for most scenarios)
Secondary roles:
Buffer - make your party better in combat
Debuffer - make the enemy worse in combat
Dungeoneer - Disable Device, basically
Magic support - magic detection, identification, and dispelling
Ideally, each character should be good at one primary and one secondary, but situations where one character is good at several secondaries allowing others to be exceptionally good at their primary can work, too.
For example, why a lot of people will say Bards suck.Part of this, if you're going to use it, is that a lot of those "roles" are more of secondary roles, a side thing you cover too.
Like if you made a character that was the skills guy and nothing else, he'd realistically have no place in a party.
YUP!
Any 3/4 bab class is supposed to be able to do combat fine AND cover it's niche. But the issue is most people build their characters to only do their niche and be useless in combat.Bards, investigators, summoners, and rogues for example. Lots of people build them to have like 8 str, 12/14 dex and 12/14 con and then are useless in combat situations. (granted the bards can try to do an offensive casting for combat and summoners have their eidolon) These guys will instead have mental stats of like 18, 14, 12. Which sure, lets them be a skills guy, but their character isn't a good party member and never has a positions.
We had one of those bards, he was constantly doing boosts. one of our guys in a CPA and calculated that over all, he was "doing" more damage than any other member.
Boosts are a incredible way to do damage.
For example, why a lot of people will say Bards suck.Part of this, if you're going to use it, is that a lot of those "roles" are more of secondary roles, a side thing you cover too.
Like if you made a character that was the skills guy and nothing else, he'd realistically have no place in a party.
YUP!
Any 3/4 bab class is supposed to be able to do combat fine AND cover it's niche. But the issue is most people build their characters to only do their niche and be useless in combat.Bards, investigators, summoners, and rogues for example. Lots of people build them to have like 8 str, 12/14 dex and 12/14 con and then are useless in combat situations. (granted the bards can try to do an offensive casting for combat and summoners have their eidolon) These guys will instead have mental stats of like 18, 14, 12. Which sure, lets them be a skills guy, but their character isn't a good party member and never has a positions.
We had one of those bards, he was constantly doing boosts. one of our guys in a CPA and calculated that over all, he was "doing" more damage than any other member.
Boosts are a incredible way to do damage.
True, they can also go for the buffing role. Thing about buffs is that ALL the damage is only yours when they hit only due to your buff, otherwise it's just the little bit of damage you're adding per hit.
The main point is that a character should have something meaningful and impactful to do for the first 3-4 rounds of combat. If your buffing role is inspire courage and then total defend for the rest then you're not doing your role, nor really helping that much since you could easily contribute more.
In my opinion, there are 3 combat roles in Pathfinder.
Striker: Focus on kill the bad guys
Control: Minimize damage the bad guys can do to you, can include debuffing, and/or actual physical battlefield control (such as walls, pits, and often summons).
Support: Increases the ability of the other 2 to do their jobs, can include buffing, condition removal and some healing (preferably only emergency healing, most healing should be done outside of combat).
There are tons of ways to accomplish any of those roles, but given how much time most games spend on combat, everyone should have one as a focus (and having a secondary isn't bad either.) Ideally, each person in the party should know their primary role, and what everyone else's primary role is to ensure the best tactics.
There are plenty of out of combat roles (each skill could be consdered a 'role' pretty much, as well as certain types of spell casting), and covering as many as possible among the party members, and minimizing duplication is good, but these should be a secondary focus it is a rare campaign where only having these out of combat roles will be an enjoyable character and actually be useful to the party. Most campaigns are such that even an 'ok' ability to perform any of the out of combat roles is sufficient.
Things from the original list that aren't roles at all in Pathfinder:
Tank: Outside a few specialized builds, their is no aggro in Pathfinder, so you can't just 'tank' and contribute. Every character should have some means of defending themselves and minimizing negative effects on themselves (this can be lot of hit points, high armor, spells, good saves, or even just a combat plan to keep their distance while performing their combat role at range) defenses are part of making sure you can perform you role, not a role in and of itself.
Crafter: Even out of combat this isn't a role, while it is a useful thing to have in the party, it typically doesn't involve any real playtime or roleplaying (although it might take up considerable in-game time.)
Leader: There are no mechanical ways for a PC to 'lead' another PC. Some players may be leaders, and may build characters whose fluff fits that, but it isn't a build role and certainly isn't even a necessary function of the game, many groups prefer a more consensus based approach to what the PCs do.
Lastly, their are sometimes particular campaign goals. Kingdom rulership positions in Kingmaker, Shipboard roles in Skull and Shackles for example, these are determined by and usually are specific to a particular campaign and specialized rule system, but in those campaigns are only slightly less important than combat roles.
The traditional roles for a Fantasy Table top game are
Tank: Fighter
Skill Monkey: Rogues
Arcane Caster: Sorcerer/Wizard
Divine Caster: Clerics
All of those other "roles" you listed are just ways these for the 4 arch-types of characters do their Job. A Tank is very often a melee Fighter who protects the party by getting up in the enemy's face. The Skill Monkey is the scout/trap finder and in my experience also the party face because they have the skills to put into bluff/diplomacy/intimidate. An Arcane Caster is a Blaster/Buffer/Controller/De-buff/Summoner/etc depending on what spells they know. A Divine Caster is a Buffer/Healer.
Pretty much every class either falls into one of these roles or between them. The Cavalier is a Tank, a Bard is a Skill Monkey/Arcane Caster, a Paladin is a Tank/Divine Caster, a Druid is a Divine Caster and if they have an animal companion also a Tank, a Magus is a Tank/Arcane Caster.
It is not that you are incorrect in your list of character roles, but you are in a "can't see the forest for the trees" situation. Hyper focusing on details while missing the big picture.
As the saying goes: "the devil is in the detail".
We can rely on the four traditional archetypes to some extent but often to get real insight we have to dig deeper. On the surface you might have four characters fulfilling four archetypal character roles and think that the party is nicely balanced. But then when you look deeper and split those four further into eighteen different roles you notice that things aren't balanced at all. For example the wizard of the party might fulfill ten of the eighteen roles whereas the fighter only covers two roles and there you have it: evidence that the martial / caster disparity is genuine.
To use your analogy, yes I am focusing on the individual trees and that is because I have been gaming for 30+ years and I am already familiar with the forest and I want to discover new insights.
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I'll just leave this here.
I'll just leave this here.
There is a lot of interesting discussion there, which I used to create my list.
Also this even older thread I found useful as well: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k9d7?Party-Roles#1