What kind of monster would it be?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Sovereign Court

A wizard in my group is looking for the truth about his great-grandfather. They said he wanted to become a lich, but he did not succeed, that's what they told everyone at least. (background of the character

The story of my campaign:
- an evil power is manipulating the deep creatures of earth, and making them evil. He is raising an army, this army will dig out archdemon dragons, the dragons will lead the army on earth to destroy everything.
This is all because of this main villain who cursed the creatures, the archdemon, and everything that get's tainted by it.

This is also something that repeats itself every like 5000 to 10000 years, everytime some evil character learns the power of the curse and wants to conquer the world.

What kind of evil character would be able to do something like that?
Is it possible for a lich to do? Could his great-grandfather have become something else, like say a demon?
(I'd like it not to be a lich, because that would be to obvious).
Ideas?


Templating dragons is nasty. Nice idea.

Depends in part on the type of fiend (evil outsiders in general). Daemons, demons, demodands, devils, kytons, rakshasha, et al all have very different motivations.

If you want to really mix things up ... an Evil monk with Perfect Self and massive skills with Occult Rituals will do the trick. They become Outsiders, which are generally immortal.

Sovereign Court

to clearify, i want his great grandfather to be the big bad guy, since my player wants to clear his family name and prove that he was not so bad... things will blow up in his face :)

He was a wizard, could be necromancer. So how can this mortal become a demon or such thing, if at all possible; and have the power to do this kind of cursing


Some version of a Siabrae? They normally start out as druids and become infused with a corrupting blight force.

A Dybbuk?

A Nemhaim?


I would be tempted to have it both be his great-grandfather and not be his great-grandfather at the same time, in particular, while his ancestor did all sorts of bad things, in life he was possessed by something else, and that something else is back, with the memories and knowledge that great-grandfather had, and in fact had been the great-grandfather for most of the man's adult life (and his lichdom search and death were just the entity moving on, perhaps needing to go back to another plane for a while and recharge.)

I don't know what kind of specific monster I'd have it be. If it is something behind everything you say, it would have to have, or at least have had, deific powers. I might come up with some sort of 'remnant of a dead god' type of thing, working to return to full power. Perhaps use a super beefed up shadow demon as inspiration for some of things current powers.

The fun thing with this is that the player can first find out his great-grandfather was a really the bad guy, and then still maybe, if not clear his name at least come to understand it wasn't actually his fault. I'd probably have the great-grandfather end up being possessed not by doing something particularly evil, but more foolish, meddling with things he didn't fully understand sort of thing.


Great-Grandpa was an adventurer who delved too greedily and too deep!

Maybe he can find an early spellbook with a treasure map in the back...


A devourer would be different enough, assuming great-grandfather's quest for lichdom and power sent him beyond the realm of mortals in the Outer Planes, returning twisted and alien. A devourer would likely be trying to flood the world with ancient unspeakable evils.


How stable is the control over the earth army? I ask, since having something like 'archdemon dragons' seems like a major risk of them turning on you.

Due to how I understand liches, this might make them a poor choice for the villain.

Liches are, but their nature, cowards. They fear death. They were spell casters of moderate success... but they felt they could not get far enough to gain some form of living immortality before they die. So they picked the low hanging, worm infested fruit- they abandoned the joys of life just to hang onto their existence. And they rely heavily on their cheat out of getting killed too- but they fervently hide their weakness away.

So, for a coward... they might not want to get involved with this. at the very least, they wouldn't want to be involved in anything that they can't simply avoid by hiding in a cave for a few hundred years. A plague that wipes out the kingdom? Cool- they will just come in and rule over the abandoned waste land after things quiet down. But anything that gets the world destroyed or controlled by a power other than his own..... yeah liches don't really like that.

So when it comes to 'crazy methods of power'. I prefer worms that walk. Their entire story is 'lived fast, died young by getting shanked in a gutter, and then they were just too determined to let death keep them down'. Their evil and magical power lets them take over the worms and other insects that tried to devour their flesh. They are a miracle of their own determination... which vindicates the bad habits that got them killed in the first place. Ergo, worms that walk tend to go very hard into crazy plans. Great choice for an idiot that shoves his head into a big source of power.

Sovereign Court

Just use the conqueror worm(Bestiary 6). I'm sure that it will take everybody by surprise.

Guess the only issue of the Conqueror Worm CR 21 unless your game goes really high level, your party would probably not be strong enough to fight it.

Liberty's Edge

Sounds kind of like a cultist or daemon follower of Rovagug to me


An ancient necromancer tried to achieve lichdom, failed, but nonetheless ended up with their soul in the phylactery. Their father was just the latest attempt to take over a body and create a litch. The archdemon dragons might in some way be able to help with the ritual, being older than dirt and all.

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