Android (Constructed)


Rules Questions


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"For effects targeting creatures by type, androids count as both humanoids and constructs (whichever effect is worse)."

Seeing as 'Construct' was not clearly defined, I have a few questions:

Can Androids benefit from Morale Bonuses ?
(I suspect the answer is 'no' based on the Envoy's 'Expanded Attunement' improvisation.)

Can Androids benefit from the Mending spell ?
(If they are considered as Constructs, the answer is Yes. If they are considered as Humanoids, the answer is No. If they have to pick the worse effect between 'Yes' and 'No', that would be 'No'.)


I think the answer is NO for both, since those are the worst off effects for each of those considerations.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A morale bonus isn't "an effect which targets creatures by type", most constructs are just unaffected by morale bonuses. Morale bonuses not affecting constructs is written into the rules for constructs, not the rules for morale bonuses. "Counting as a construct" is very different from "having all of a construct's traits".

As for the mending, that's debatable. I'd bet that the devs intended it to work (given that Pathfinder Androids can benefit from spells like that).

The Constructed quality definitely needs some clarification, though.


Brew Bird wrote:

A morale bonus isn't "an effect which targets creatures by type", most constructs are just unaffected by morale bonuses. Morale bonuses not affecting constructs is written into the rules for constructs, not the rules for morale bonuses. "Counting as a construct" is very different from "having all of a construct's traits".

As for the mending, that's debatable. I'd bet that the devs intended it to work (given that Pathfinder Androids can benefit from spells like that).

The Constructed quality definitely needs some clarification, though.

Everything that grants a bonus, morale or otherwise, is an effect. Spells caause effects, feats cause effects, class abilities cause effects, items cause effects.

If those effects can't grant morale bonuses to constructs because constructs can't benefit from morale bonuses, then an Android counts as a construct for the purpose of those effects.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
IonutRO wrote:
Brew Bird wrote:

A morale bonus isn't "an effect which targets creatures by type", most constructs are just unaffected by morale bonuses. Morale bonuses not affecting constructs is written into the rules for constructs, not the rules for morale bonuses. "Counting as a construct" is very different from "having all of a construct's traits".

As for the mending, that's debatable. I'd bet that the devs intended it to work (given that Pathfinder Androids can benefit from spells like that).

The Constructed quality definitely needs some clarification, though.

Everything that grants a bonus, morale or otherwise, is an effect. Spells caause effects, feats cause effects, class abilities cause effects, items cause effects.

If those effects can't grant morale bonuses to constructs because constructs can't benefit from morale bonuses, then an Android counts as a construct for the purpose of those effects.

I'm not arguing that morale bonuses aren't "effects", but a morale bonus does not target things by type. The immunity to morale effects comes from the construct type, the only entry on morale bonuses in the whole Core Rulebook only bars non-intelligent creatures from gaining them, nothing else. Androids count as constructs, but aren't the construct creature type. They don't have the immunity to morale effects that most actual constructs have.

In Pathfinder, if a human takes Racial Heritage (Orc), they don't get darkvision. They just count as an orc for effects related subtype. It's the same thing here. Counting as a particular type does not mean you have all the abilities and traits inherent to that type.


Brew Bird wrote:


I'm not arguing that morale bonuses aren't "effects", but a morale bonus does not target things by type.

I see what you mean : Unless the spell, ability or weapon specifically mentions having an effect on a Humanoid or Construct, it doesn't matter.

So the android would be affected by:

"Mystic Cure" (target: one living creature)
"Hold Person" (target: one humanoid creature) [humanoid is worse than construct]
A Construct Bane weapon [construct is worse than humanoid]

But would not be affected by:

"Rapid Repair" (target: one construct or weapon) [humanoid is worse than construct]

Makes sense !

Dark Archive

Ithnaar wrote:
Brew Bird wrote:


I'm not arguing that morale bonuses aren't "effects", but a morale bonus does not target things by type.

I see what you mean : Unless the spell, ability or weapon specifically mentions having an effect on a Humanoid or Construct, it doesn't matter.

So the android would be affected by:

"Mystic Cure" (target: one living creature)
"Hold Person" (target: one humanoid creature) [humanoid is worse than construct]
A Construct Bane weapon [construct is worse than humanoid]

But would not be affected by:

"Rapid Repair" (target: one construct or weapon) [humanoid is worse than construct]

Makes sense !

However Raise Dead won't work as it specifically states it doesn't work on constructs. This is in direct opposition to Owen Stephen's comment here http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5ljt9&page=2?Meet-the-Iconics-Iseph #97

When should we pay attention to the restrictions?


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Eindridi wrote:
Ithnaar wrote:
Brew Bird wrote:


I'm not arguing that morale bonuses aren't "effects", but a morale bonus does not target things by type.

I see what you mean : Unless the spell, ability or weapon specifically mentions having an effect on a Humanoid or Construct, it doesn't matter.

So the android would be affected by:

"Mystic Cure" (target: one living creature)
"Hold Person" (target: one humanoid creature) [humanoid is worse than construct]
A Construct Bane weapon [construct is worse than humanoid]

But would not be affected by:

"Rapid Repair" (target: one construct or weapon) [humanoid is worse than construct]

Makes sense !

However Raise Dead won't work as it specifically states it doesn't work on constructs. This is in direct opposition to Owen Stephen's comment here http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5ljt9&page=2?Meet-the-Iconics-Iseph #97

When should we pay attention to the restrictions?

Wherever the devs say we should, I guess. As written (and even by my fairly liberal reading), I agree that raise dead shouldn't affect Androids, so I'm certain the "take the worst effect" is gonna need an FAQ.

And regarding Rapid Repair, I'd actually say it should affect androids. As written it's unclear, but as intended, I'm inclined to think it should work.

More about my thoughts (which are more interpretation than strict RAW) below

Spoiler:
The way I interpret it (again, based on Pathfinder androids and how creatures that count as multiple types were handled, so not necessarily correct) is that the "worse effect" clause only applies when there are two distinct effects, one for each creature type. If something targets humanoids or constructs, but doesn't have text excluding constructs or humanoids from benefiting from the effect, it ought to work. Probably best illustrated like this:

Spell A
Target: 1 Humanoid

Spell B
Target: 1 Construct

Spell C
Target: 1 Creature
Effect for humanoids: bad
Effect for constructs: worse

Spell D
Target: 1 Creature
Effect: Something, but doesn't affect constructs.

Spell A works on androids, because androids count as humanoids, and can be targeted.
Spell B works on androids, because androids count as constructs, and can thus be targeted.
Spell C has 2 possible effects for an android, because they count as both humanoids and constructs. We use the construct effect, because it's worse.
Spell D does not work on androids, because it explicitly says it does not affect constructs, and androids count as constructs.


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Actually Raise Dead will work, as Constructed says "For effects targeting creatures by type, androids count as both humanoids and constructs (whichever effect is worse)".

Raise Dead does not target a type. It has the callout that it doesn't work on Constructs but Androids are not Constructs. They are treated as Constructs whenever an effect specifically targets a type.

Spells like Mystic Cure and Raise Dead do not target type and this would work on Androids. Rapid Repair on the other hand does target type and would work as well.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

OH. That's a way better reading than what I was thinking. Thanks Rysky, I think you've probably got it.


Np, glad to help ^w^

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