Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game

Starfinder


Pathfinder Society


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Rules Question!


Rules Questions

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If a character is given a racial 'bump' to a stat, can that 'bump' be traded 'down' to gain ability points to use on another ability, so long as the ability does not go below 10?


No. You start with 10 in all stats, Add racial modifiers, Add the +1 from theme. Then spend 10 points on a 1 for 1 basis. 18 is your max starting stat. You can voluntarily lower stats but you gain no benefit for it. No extra points.


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There isn't any way to gain extra ability points during character creation, if you decrease those stats you gain nothing from doing so.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well, hopefully later stat bumps will make up for a race that isn't geared for a given class, then.

Any word on what the character creation rule for SFS will be?

OMG!

Luke Spencer!

I remember you from General Hospital decades ago!

*hides in aged shame*


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think any race could work for any class but it depends on the level of play. A race at level 1 that takes a -2 penalty to their main class stat is gonna struggle unless they dump all/most of their points into that stat to get a 16 or 18, but once you get to higher levels and get access to personal upgrades and stat boosts then race bonus/penalty have a more negligible effect. Obviously it'll never be optimal but the difference won't make the character unplayable.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Well, hopefully later stat bumps will make up for a race that isn't geared for a given class, then.

Like Luke said, the only races that are sub-optimal for a given class (ability wise) are those than have a penalty in that class's key or secondary abilities. The way point-buy works, racial bonuses are no more valuable than points.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Is point buy going to be the SFS default, or will the arrays be allowed?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

What I'm really hoping is that the theme bonus isn't going to be stuck in a state of never being able to translate into a modifier bonus without being cancelled out by the 16 +2, 17 +1 rule of stat increases.

Unless its one of those "odd numbers unlock feats" things, its not worth mentioning it; and even then, its still just going to be made redundant once it inevitably gets raised.


It seems like a +1 theme bonus pays off in your primary or secondary stat late game. Instead of putting an extra +1 from level attribute gains to hit an even bonus, you use your existing theme point to get there, giving you the option to instead raise a tertiary attribute that hasn't hit the point of diminishing returns by +2. The Theme bonus is only stranded if you put in a stat you don't care about much that you'll never push above 15/17.


SFS will use the same point buy system. And the odd point boost from theme is mostly useless on purpose. The devs wanted any class to be able to choose any theme. They didn't want a clear best choice. So for example a Mystic Priest might seem best because Priest adds +1 Wisdom. But that just means you spend one less point on wisdom and make some other stat an odd number.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jimbles the Mediocre wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Well, hopefully later stat bumps will make up for a race that isn't geared for a given class, then.
Like Luke said, the only races that are sub-optimal for a given class (ability wise) are those than have a penalty in that class's key or secondary abilities. The way point-buy works, racial bonuses are no more valuable than points.

Sub-optimal, like my Android Envoy. :)


Bigguyinblack wrote:
SFS will use the same point buy system. And the odd point boost from theme is mostly useless on purpose. The devs wanted any class to be able to choose any theme. They didn't want a clear best choice. So for example a Mystic Priest might seem best because Priest adds +1 Wisdom. But that just means you spend one less point on wisdom and make some other stat an odd number.

What I'm saying is that the odd number isn't useless once you use your level up attribute boosts. You put a +1 into the odd one to get it even once it's past the cap for adding +2 (16?). That's 5 levels extra of an extra bonus in that attribute.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mark Stratton wrote:
Jimbles the Mediocre wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Well, hopefully later stat bumps will make up for a race that isn't geared for a given class, then.
Like Luke said, the only races that are sub-optimal for a given class (ability wise) are those than have a penalty in that class's key or secondary abilities. The way point-buy works, racial bonuses are no more valuable than points.
Sub-optimal, like my Android Envoy. :)

Or my Vesk Mechanic.

Hope everyone can live with the completely non-optimal stats layout mandated by point buy.

Liberty's Edge

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Mark Stratton wrote:
Jimbles the Mediocre wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Well, hopefully later stat bumps will make up for a race that isn't geared for a given class, then.
Like Luke said, the only races that are sub-optimal for a given class (ability wise) are those than have a penalty in that class's key or secondary abilities. The way point-buy works, racial bonuses are no more valuable than points.
Sub-optimal, like my Android Envoy. :)

Or my Vesk Mechanic.

Hope everyone can live with the completely non-optimal stats layout mandated by point buy.

I think the point buy is just fine.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

'Mandated Stat Array':
Had to go with 12 Str (mandated by race) 12 Dex (to have at least some sort of positive modifier to hit ANYTHING) 13 Con (because extra hp might mean less dying) 16 Int (best I could put in due to race starting at 8 INT) 10 Wis 10 Cha.

Hope things aren't as swingy as PF, or this will end really quick.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


** spoiler omitted **

Hope things aren't as swingy as PF, or this will end really quick.

I believe you can buy up from an 8 to an 18 in Starfinder, it will just take all 10 of your points, meaning you are stuck with 12/12/11 (or 13/12) with your racial and theme bounses in the relevant ability scores.


Xenocrat wrote:
Bigguyinblack wrote:
SFS will use the same point buy system. And the odd point boost from theme is mostly useless on purpose. The devs wanted any class to be able to choose any theme. They didn't want a clear best choice. So for example a Mystic Priest might seem best because Priest adds +1 Wisdom. But that just means you spend one less point on wisdom and make some other stat an odd number.
What I'm saying is that the odd number isn't useless once you use your level up attribute boosts. You put a +1 into the odd one to get it even once it's past the cap for adding +2 (16?). That's 5 levels extra of an extra bonus in that attribute.

You're implying you can actually add it somehow after the fact. But no, you have to add the bonus during Char-gen, and during Char Gen, you're capped at 18.

Whatever stat you put the 1 remainder in, its going to be odd; and no matter how many times you increase the base stat, you're not going to be able to bypass the point you're going to have to go through the 16 to 17 gap.

If we ignored the existence of that 1 remainder, it would be at 16 at this point, and increasing the ability score would put you at 18. If we don't ignore it, its going to be 17, which STILL only puts you at 18.

In order for it to grant this "5 levels extra bonus" worth of extra bonus, it has be applied at a different time to when its been FORCIBLY applied.

... Sigh...

You know what, I'm just going to house rule that the Theme Bonus will be +2 instead.


Luna Protege wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
Bigguyinblack wrote:
SFS will use the same point buy system. And the odd point boost from theme is mostly useless on purpose. The devs wanted any class to be able to choose any theme. They didn't want a clear best choice. So for example a Mystic Priest might seem best because Priest adds +1 Wisdom. But that just means you spend one less point on wisdom and make some other stat an odd number.
What I'm saying is that the odd number isn't useless once you use your level up attribute boosts. You put a +1 into the odd one to get it even once it's past the cap for adding +2 (16?). That's 5 levels extra of an extra bonus in that attribute.

You're implying you can actually add it somehow after the fact. But no, you have to add the bonus during Char-gen, and during Char Gen, you're capped at 18.

Whatever stat you put the 1 remainder in, its going to be odd; and no matter how many times you increase the base stat, you're not going to be able to bypass the point you're going to have to go through the 16 to 17 gap.

If we ignored the existence of that 1 remainder, it would be at 16 at this point, and increasing the ability score would put you at 18. If we don't ignore it, its going to be 17, which STILL only puts you at 18.

In order for it to grant this "5 levels extra bonus" worth of extra bonus, it has be applied at a different time to when its been FORCIBLY applied.

That's actually exactly what I'm saying. It's "useless" (except for feat prerequisites) at chargen, but useful for certain character advancement assumptions at levels 5 (maybe), 10, or 15.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Xenocrat wrote:


That's actually exactly what I'm saying. It's "useless" (except for feat prerequisites) at chargen, but useful for certain character advancement assumptions at levels 5 (maybe), 10, or 15.

Consider a base 14 vs base 15 stat at level 1.

Level 1: 14 vs 15
Level 5: 16 vs 17
Level 10: 18 vs 18 (the extra odd point disappears here 16->18, 17->18)
Level 15: 19 vs 19
Level 20: 20 vs 20

In this example, it sticks around to make meeting feat requirements easier for levels 1-9, and then from level 10 on, starting with a 14 is identical to starting with a 15.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The only value I can see for that +1 is:

  • Qualifying for feats that require an odd number in a stat
  • For stats that get ability damage or drain. That's 1 more point of CON dmg that you could take before dying from poison or something debilitating like that.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

All Vesk Mercenaries qualify for Heavy Armor proficiency without further investment.

There are other cases where it helps with feat prerequisites, but that one is certainly one of the better ones.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Some of the races in First Contact have odd (literally) racial bonuses/penalties.

Frex, Contemplatives get +4 Int, +1 Cha, –1 Str, –1 Con

Theme +1 combines with those to make an even score, bumping your modifier.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
BretI wrote:

All Vesk Mercenaries qualify for Heavy Armor proficiency without further investment.

There are other cases where it helps with feat prerequisites, but that one is certainly one of the better ones.

Vesk Mechanics, too, if one takes an exocortex.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

Some of the races in First Contact have odd (literally) racial bonuses/penalties.

Frex, Contemplatives get +4 Int, +1 Cha, –1 Str, –1 Con

Theme +1 combines with those to make an even score, bumping your modifier.

I think they said that the ability score modifier rules were changed after First contact came out, and those numbers aren't quite right, but I may be misremembering.


Luna Protege wrote:

You know what, I'm just going to house rule that the Theme Bonus will be +2 instead.

That would make it useful and/but immediately give a bonus at first level for a secondary. Another option I thought of was all the theme bonus - and only the theme bonus - to bump a stat to 19. Doesn't mean much, if anything at first level, but would allow the level 5 stat boost to bump it to 20.

Liberty's Edge

Lord Mhoram wrote:
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

Some of the races in First Contact have odd (literally) racial bonuses/penalties.

Frex, Contemplatives get +4 Int, +1 Cha, –1 Str, –1 Con

Theme +1 combines with those to make an even score, bumping your modifier.

I think they said that the ability score modifier rules were changed after First contact came out, and those numbers aren't quite right, but I may be misremembering.

Actually, First Contact specifies that you treat all +1 or -1 as +2 or -2 when making PCs of that race. It's in the sidebar on p. 3.

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


** spoiler omitted **

Hope things aren't as swingy as PF, or this will end really quick.

You have way more 'HP' so you'll probably be fine as far as it goes. You could go all the way to 18 in Int if you wanted, since the penalty doesn't effect caps in Starfinder...but honestly, if I were going Vesk, I'd go with the unusual melee Mechanic and skip Dex for Str.


Starfinder Guild Guide is out.

The character creation rules are exactly as in the book with the 7 base races available. So 10 in all stats, apply race and theme modifiers and then you have 10 points to add, up to a max of 18.

I imagine the 5th level ability boost will make a lot of changes. If I read it correctly it's +2 to 4 stats as long as they are 16 or lower. +1 to any of those 4 stats 17 or higher. So if you design it right you could have a few 18s and 16s at 5th level.

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Well, hopefully later stat bumps will make up for a race that isn't geared for a given class, then.

Any word on what the character creation rule for SFS will be?

OMG!

Luke Spencer!

I remember you from General Hospital decades ago!

*hides in aged shame*


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Lord Mhoram wrote:
Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

Some of the races in First Contact have odd (literally) racial bonuses/penalties.

Frex, Contemplatives get +4 Int, +1 Cha, –1 Str, –1 Con

Theme +1 combines with those to make an even score, bumping your modifier.

I think they said that the ability score modifier rules were changed after First contact came out, and those numbers aren't quite right, but I may be misremembering.

Actually, First Contact specifies that you treat all +1 or -1 as +2 or -2 when making PCs of that race. It's in the sidebar on p. 3.

Thanks, I missed that.

Liberty's Edge

Lord Mhoram wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Actually, First Contact specifies that you treat all +1 or -1 as +2 or -2 when making PCs of that race. It's in the sidebar on p. 3.
Thanks, I missed that.

No problem, I'm always happy to be of assistance. :)

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

It says do that to "adapt them to the traditional Pathfinder RPG racial traits".

I took that to mean that if you were converting these races to Pathfinder, for some reason, you'd treat 1s as 2s.

Otherwise, whats the point of listing them in 1 format to begin with?


Think this question falls here since it is rules related.
I am running the game and came across something that sort of confuses me. I plan on my 8 player group to encounter some Space Goblins! Now Space Goblins are CR 1/3 so I was going to have 3 to get to CR 1. I however run into the problem that if I add more creature the CR goes up by 1 per creature. Now since I had so many players I was going to up the APL to +2 anyway. My question is it 3 Space Goblins or 9 Space Goblins the characters would encounter? I just want a challenge for the characters.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Assuming your players are 1st level, and thus APL = 2 (1 higher for 6+ players). Then a hard encounter (APL+2, as you noted) would be equivalent to a CR 4. A CR 4 encounter has a budget of 1,200 XP. 1,200 XP divided by 135 (the XP for each goblin) would be just shy of 9 goblins.

However

Since you said there are 8 players, I'd drop in a couple more, or try to give the goblins a slight tactical edge (surprise round, cover, etc.)


Im confussed . On page 19 of the Starfinder Core Rulebook .it sates that a reduction in ability point below 10 is ok ,but the points CAN NOT be added to the pool. This is all under the heading Optional rule:Character Flaw . In Society Play is this a rule of law or not?

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo / Starfinder® / Rules Questions / Rules Question! All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002-2017 Paizo Inc.® | Privacy Policy | Contact Us
Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours, Monday through Friday, 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM Pacific time.

Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, Starfinder, the Starfinder logo, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc. The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Legends, Pathfinder Online, Starfinder Adventure Path, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.