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Potential errors / layout issues


Starfinder General Discussion

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Dark Archive

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Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Page 55: under the "PLAYING A YSOKI" section;
"Value your skills with technology but wish you reassembled.
things as often as you took them apart."
- there's an additional full stop and blue line divider.

Page 261: under the "DEALING WITH UNSEEN CREATURES" section;
"If you are unaware of a creature, aware of a creature's presence, or aware of a creature's location, that creature is considered to be “unseen” for you. A stationary unseen creature has a +40 bonus to Stealth checks, but this bonus is reduced to +20 if the unseen creature moves (and these bonuses are negated for potential observers with blindsense)."

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Claw-o-form wrote:


Page 261: under the "DEALING WITH UNSEEN CREATURES" section;
"If you are unaware of a creature, aware of a creature's presence, or aware of a creature's location, that creature is considered to be “unseen” for you. A stationary unseen creature has a +40 bonus to Stealth checks, but this bonus is reduced to +20 if the unseen creature moves (and these bonuses are negated for potential observers with blindsense)."

No error here. The 4 stages of awareness are Unaware, Aware of Presenc, Aware of Location, and Observing. If you do not have the full Observing level of awareness, you do not "see" the creature and it gets full concealment.

Additional potential errors:

page 31: You are hooked deeply into the culture of your iconic profession. When attempting a Profession or Culture check to recall knowledge about other icons of your profession or details about your profession’s cultural aspects, increase the DC by 5.

page 181: Entangle
A creature hit by an entangle weapon becomes entangled until it escapes with an Acrobatics check (DC = 10 + weapon’s item level + the attacker’s Dexterity modifier) or a Strength check (DC = 15 + weapon’s item level + the attacker’s Dexterity modifier).

Seems the Strength Check should have a lower DC than th skill check, as attribute modifiers are almost always going to be far lower than skills.


Starfinder Charter Superscriber

On page 332 (Negative Levels under Bringing Back the Dead):

"There is an exception to this rule, though. If the character was 1st or 2nd level (or CR 2 or less for a monster) at the time of death, instead of gaining negative levels, the character’s Constitution score is permanently reduced by 2 (or its Constitution modifier is permanently reduced by 1 for a monster)."

While under the Raise Dead spell on page 371 it says:

"If the target is 1st level, it takes 2 Constitution drain instead (if this would reduce its Constitution to 0 or less, it can’t be raised)."


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
rooneg wrote:

On page 332 (Negative Levels under Bringing Back the Dead):

"There is an exception to this rule, though. If the character was 1st or 2nd level (or CR 2 or less for a monster) at the time of death, instead of gaining negative levels, the character’s Constitution score is permanently reduced by 2 (or its Constitution modifier is permanently reduced by 1 for a monster)."

While under the Raise Dead spell on page 371 it says:

"If the target is 1st level, it takes 2 Constitution drain instead (if this would reduce its Constitution to 0 or less, it can’t be raised)."

This harkens back to This problem.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

page 61: At 3rd level and every 4 levels thereafter, you choose an
expertise talent, which gives you an extra option when using a
skill with which you have expertise. The list of expertise talents
appears on pages 269–270.

The actual pages are 64-65.


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Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Page 119: In the Spell Cache section for the Technomancer, we have the following sentence: "If your spell cache is damaged, it is restored to full Hit Points the next time you prepare spells."

The Technomancer could have a really long wait for that to happen since he is a spontaneous caster.

A similar problem can be found on page 223 under Ring of Sustenance.


  • p26 2nd paragraph last sentence- Says you get an ability score increase at 4th level when you don't get your first increases till 5th level
  • p69 Custom rig, Functions as a Mk 1 Comm unit but that doesn't exist. Comm units come in 1st/personal, 6th/system wide, and 12th/unlimited

I'm guessing they mean the 1st level one, but still an error

  • p70 Expert rig, Says it now functions as "any engineering or hacking specialty kit of item level 6th or lower" but there aren't hacking specialty kits and the kits are only level 1 and 2

Might be that they're going to introduce other kits in future books, but seems like an error now.

  • p87 Mindkiller doesn't cost a resolve point?

Most of the other abilities cost a resolve point, but an extremely powerful phantasmal killer-like effect doesn't? Surely that's a mistake.

  • p181 "Weapon special property and critical hit DCs" sidebar indicates Dex is used for thrown weapons but all other places say Str

  • p275 "Dying" condition says you must spend 3RP to stabilize but p251 says 1/4 your maximum RP (min 1-max3)

  • p374 Resistant Armor, Lesser the formating for "saving throw and spell resistance" are off


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The ability damage rules say that you add your Dexterity modifier to damage with Operative weapons. The general rules for Ability Scores and the Equipment section don't say that anywhere.


The Operative has 2 different insight bonuses to skills built in (One from the spec, one from the Operative's edge) that are thus non-stacking.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Ikiry0 wrote:
The Operative has 2 different insight bonuses to skills built in (One from the spec, one from the Operative's edge) that are thus non-stacking.

Addressed by Mark, I believe - apparently at 7th Operatives get something that lets them always take 10 on skills they have skill focus in. Don't have the PDF myself, so can't confirm.


Ikiry0 wrote:
The Operative has 2 different insight bonuses to skills built in (One from the spec, one from the Operative's edge) that are thus non-stacking.

As DrSwordopolis said, that's intentional. At 7th level, when the bonuses are equal, they get the ability to take 10 with the skills they have skill focus with. It's back somewhere in this thread.


Tiny weapons, rules as written, cost double. This might be interacting in unforeseen ways with the Hover Drone, which is tiny.

It means that, despite having weapon mounts built onto it to mount guns onto, the hover drone has to pay literally twice as much for guns as either of the other two drones.


Is Blazing Orbit per-square or just if they enter at all? It's a bit unclear with the writing.


sunderedhero wrote:
Ikiry0 wrote:
The Operative has 2 different insight bonuses to skills built in (One from the spec, one from the Operative's edge) that are thus non-stacking.
As DrSwordopolis said, that's intentional. At 7th level, when the bonuses are equal, they get the ability to take 10 with the skills they have skill focus with. It's back somewhere in this thread.

Dunno if it says its intentional, but I think it was pointed out that despite these not stacking, there is still another effect.


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1. The bonuses and penalties rules in pages 266-267 would, in fact, seem to allow multiple personal upgrades to the same ability score to stack. This seems highly abusable. Would this not mean a +12 bonus to one ability score from personal upgrade stacking?

2. Do thrown weapons and grenades use Strength or Dexterity for the attack roll?

3. Do thrown weapons and grenades use Strength or Dexterity for their DCs?

4. Do operative melee weapons allow you to use Dexterity instead of Strength for the damage roll, as the rules for ability damage apply?

5. Are grenades reusable?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber
Colette Brunel wrote:

1. The bonuses and penalties rules in pages 266-267 would, in fact, seem to allow multiple personal upgrades to the same ability score to stack. This seems highly abusable. Would this not mean a +12 bonus to one ability score from personal upgrade stacking?

This was answered in the blog about cybernetics and augmentations:

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Damanta wrote:

I like this system.

Just a bit unclear, can you apply the +2 / +4 / +6 to the same stat for a total of +12, or does the +4 replace the +2 and the +6 replaces the +4, or do you give one stat a +2, one a +4 and a third one the +6?

You can't stack them. You CAN upgrade or replace lower-effect systems with higher-effect systems.

So if I have synaptic accelerators giving me +2 Dex, and I get a meditation crystal for +4 Dex, I can overwrite the +2 with a +4. Or if I am buying a new upgrade, I can do the same thing. Or I can leave my Dex and +2 and buy a new upgrade to get my Strength at +4.

But the limit is three ability scores, one at +2, one at +4, and one at +6.


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The the book has an error as RAW you can stack them


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Pg. 170 Grenades (and ammunition) don't mention that they're destroyed on use, except in a roundabout way in the Mechanic section, "Once detonated, the weapon is destroyed, just like a grenade."


lakobie wrote:
The the book has an error as RAW you can stack them

...?


3 people marked this as a favorite.
QuidEst wrote:
Pg. 170 Grenades (and ammunition) don't mention that they're destroyed on use, except in a roundabout way in the Mechanic section, "Once detonated, the weapon is destroyed, just like a grenade."

I think that's one of those common sense things that they didn't think they needed to spend word count on.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

"Hey, guys! Remember to pick up all the pieces, I can reuse those!"


Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
lakobie wrote:
The the book has an error as RAW you can stack them
...?

You parsed that wrong, they meant

lakobie wrote:
"Then the book has an error, as (by) RAW you can stack them."


IonutRO wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
lakobie wrote:
The the book has an error as RAW you can stack them
...?

You parsed that wrong, they meant

lakobie wrote:
"Then the book has an error, as (by) RAW you can stack them."

The book is the RAW though...

(or did they and you mean the book has an error in that it currently allows by RAW to do this?)


Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
IonutRO wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
lakobie wrote:
The the book has an error as RAW you can stack them
...?

You parsed that wrong, they meant

lakobie wrote:
"Then the book has an error, as (by) RAW you can stack them."

The book is the RAW though...

(or did they and you mean the book has an error in that it currently allows by RAW to do this?)

Yeah sorry for lack of puncuation. As it is written in the book you can only have 1 mk1 1 mk2 and 1 mk3. Each one gives an untyped bonus to a stat. However untyped bonuses stack and there is no clause that states your mk1 mk2 and mk3 can't be the same stat. Thus as per rules as written you can get a +12 to one stat (+6 +4 +2), while the entry feels as though RAI you cant do this (and the devs have previously stated you cannot) the entry still needs to be written more clearly.


Mark Seifter had addressed these in another thread, but I would like confirmation:

1. Are the operative's Skill Focus feats from specialization supposed to stack with the Operative's Edge insight bonus?

2. Are the Daredevil and the Thief supposed to have the +4 bonus to trick attacks?

3. Do operative weapons allow the user to apply their Dexterity modifier to the damage roll rather than Strength, as the section on ability damage implies?

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

Pg 18. Ability Scores

Under Step-4, first sentence should read "race and theme" not "class and theme".
Ability scores are not modified by class.

Dark Archive

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
lakobie wrote:


Yeah sorry for lack of puncuation. As it is written in the book you can only have 1 mk1 1 mk2 and 1 mk3. Each one gives an untyped bonus to a stat. However untyped bonuses stack and there is no clause that states your mk1 mk2 and mk3 can't be the same stat. Thus as per rules as written you can get a +12 to one stat (+6 +4 +2), while the entry feels as though RAI you cant do this (and the devs have previously stated you cannot) the entry still needs to be written more clearly.

The closest rebuttalle I have for you is page 212 Personal upgrades.

"Personal upgrades may be cybernetics, biotech upgrades, mystical crystals, nanite enhancements, or various other forms of enhancement, and each permanently grants you additional ability score points. "


Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
I think that's one of those common sense things that they didn't think they needed to spend word count on.

Yeah, unfortunately there are non-exploding/reusable grenades in fiction (Shadowrun's Gel and Liquid Grenades are non-exploding, as are Star Trek's Phaser Grenades) so it likely would have been useful on that front as it's far from impossible, especially in a science fiction game.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ikiry0 wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
I think that's one of those common sense things that they didn't think they needed to spend word count on.
Yeah, unfortunately there are non-exploding/reusable grenades in fiction (Shadowrun's Gel and Liquid Grenades are non-exploding, as are Star Trek's Phaser Grenades) so it likely would have been useful on that front as it's far from impossible, especially in a science fiction game.

But those examples specifically call out that they are non-explodey/reusable.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I want to make sure people reading this thread are aware of the following, which Owen posted in a few other places:

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Heya folks!

Obviously, some people are going to be getting their pdfs before the street date of August 17th, so I just wanted to pop and and discuss rules clarifications, and pasting text from the books into this thread.

The Starfinder Team won't be addressing rules clarifications until after Gen Con at the earliest. The reason for this is twofold. First, we don't want to begin to focus on details before most people have the book (we still have previews planned, even). Second, we just don't have time. Combining the release and preview info with our regular workload and con prep means we just can't realistically get to it.

Most likely, it's best to hold onto questions until a week or so after release.

Second, I'd like to remind folks that it is not okay to to copy large portions of text from the book. Doing so may result in the suspension or removal of posting privileges.

We want everyone to be excited and be involved, but we don't want to tease folks who can't get the book yet, or spoil any of their experience of cracking open a new RPG for the first time.

Thanks for your attention. :)

(I am less worried about spoilers in this particular thread, as it's pretty obvious from the original post what you're getting here.)

Carry on!


Would we need a separate thread for things that are just unclear? For example a successful Trick Attack by the Operative causes the target to be Flat-Footed. Is that for everyone or just the Operative? And no mention is made of how long they are flat-footed.

Paizo Employee Developer, Starfinder Team

14 people marked this as a favorite.

I am reading this thread, and tracking issues I think need to be addressed. I just can't address them right now.
It's an asap priority, but it's not this week.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The DC modifiers table for a Computers check to forge documents seem backwards.

For instance, "Type of document is well known to examiner" is -2 to DC, rather than +2 as I would expect. "Examiner only casually reviews document" is +2 to the DC rather than -2.

I'm guessing at some point that table was once modifiers on the Computers check rather than the DC.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Claw-o-form wrote:
lakobie wrote:


Yeah sorry for lack of puncuation. As it is written in the book you can only have 1 mk1 1 mk2 and 1 mk3. Each one gives an untyped bonus to a stat. However untyped bonuses stack and there is no clause that states your mk1 mk2 and mk3 can't be the same stat. Thus as per rules as written you can get a +12 to one stat (+6 +4 +2), while the entry feels as though RAI you cant do this (and the devs have previously stated you cannot) the entry still needs to be written more clearly.

The closest rebuttalle I have for you is page 212 Personal upgrades.

"Personal upgrades may be cybernetics, biotech upgrades, mystical crystals, nanite enhancements, or various other forms of enhancement, and each permanently grants you additional ability score points. "

That's just a side-effect of a game mechanic using a word that's also a common word in other usages. That line isn't referring to the "enhancement bonus" game mechanic, it's just using enhancement as a general term for making something better.


lakobie wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
IonutRO wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
lakobie wrote:
The the book has an error as RAW you can stack them
...?

You parsed that wrong, they meant

lakobie wrote:
"Then the book has an error, as (by) RAW you can stack them."

The book is the RAW though...

(or did they and you mean the book has an error in that it currently allows by RAW to do this?)

Yeah sorry for lack of puncuation. As it is written in the book you can only have 1 mk1 1 mk2 and 1 mk3. Each one gives an untyped bonus to a stat. However untyped bonuses stack and there is no clause that states your mk1 mk2 and mk3 can't be the same stat. Thus as per rules as written you can get a +12 to one stat (+6 +4 +2), while the entry feels as though RAI you cant do this (and the devs have previously stated you cannot) the entry still needs to be written more clearly.

Multiple copies of untyped bonus from the same source don't stack.

Paizo Employee Developer, Starfinder Team

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KingOfAnything wrote:

The DC modifiers table for a Computers check to forge documents seem backwards.

For instance, "Type of document is well known to examiner" is -2 to DC, rather than +2 as I would expect. "Examiner only casually reviews document" is +2 to the DC rather than -2.

I'm guessing at some point that table was once modifiers on the Computers check rather than the DC.

Those aren't the DCs to forge. Those are the DCs to detect.

Any Computers check forges a document, and sets the DC. (The GM rolls this in secret)
Then when you attempt to detect a forgery, the DC is the Computer's check to create, it, modified by the table. So if someone made a forgery with a check total of 20, and you want to detect if it is a forgery, and it contradicts orders you are already aware of, the DC to know it is a forgery is 18 (20 -2 for "Document contradicts knowledge or orders").


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Soldier Theme, level 6 ability is "Grunt"

"Treat your Strength as 1 higher when determining your bulk limit."

Seeing as bulk limit is determined by half your Strength (and you always round down), there is a 50/50 chance this ability has no effect.

Wondering if it is a holdover from Pathfinder, where every point of strength increased your carrying capacity.

Perhaps that 1 should be a 2.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

It looks like something got removed in editing by accident. It seems that one can repair 10% of a Drone's HP in 10 minutes. As the "updated" skill reads:

Repair Drone (Ex)
When you spend 10 minutes to repair your drone, you repair 25% of its maximum Hit Points instead of 10%. You must have a drone to learn this trick.

The bigger issue is that in the current version there is NO way for an Mechanic to repair their drone. The Mending spell seems to be the only way to currently repair a drone ... other than that it's impossible to repair Drone damage.


p179 The Advanced Missile doesn't have the explode property
p191 Says weapons with weapon fusions count as magic for the purpose of overcoming DR, but what about other purposes like incorporeal creatures

Stonesnake wrote:

It looks like something got removed in editing by accident. It seems that one can repair 10% of a Drone's HP in 10 minutes. As the "updated" skill reads:

Repair Drone (Ex)
When you spend 10 minutes to repair your drone, you repair 25% of its maximum Hit Points instead of 10%. You must have a drone to learn this trick.

The bigger issue is that in the current version there is NO way for an Mechanic to repair their drone. The Mending spell seems to be the only way to currently repair a drone ... other than that it's impossible to repair Drone damage.

I'm guessing it refers to using Engineering to repair tech items(p142), but that repairs an amount equal to your check, not a flat percentage so that's still an error.


Colette Brunel wrote:

Mark Seifter had addressed these in another thread, but I would like confirmation:

2. Are the Daredevil and the Thief supposed to have the +4 bonus to trick attacks?

Looking at all the Specializations, I suspect that if there is any error in there, it is that the Ghost should *not* get the +4 bonus.

All the other Specializations that get a +4 bonus apply it to a skill which is *not* DEX based.

All the other Specializations that get no bonus use a skill which *is* DEX based.

Seeing as DEX is their key ability score, I presume the +4 is a balancing effort for those Operatives whose Trick Attack skills aren't based on their key ability score.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber Subscriber

Pg. 231, Space Suit
If damaged in combat you must succeed on a Reflex save or the suit gains the broken condition and is disabled for hours, but if it already has the broken condition it's only disabled for minutes.

The reverse seems more likely.


Page 430 stipulates that all armor of 1st level or higher comes with personal comm units; is such a thing stipulated in the armor section or the technological equipment section?

For that matter, is there any rule concerning free batteries with purchased equipment? Having to spend 60 credits for each battery-powered item can be deceptively costly with 1st-level wealth being 1,000 credits.

Do ysoki cheek pouches look full when they are stuffed, just like animals in the real world? If so, then that would limit their usefulness. It is a bit of a giveaway to have the shape of tactical doshko (greataxe) sticking out of the pouches.


kadance wrote:

Pg. 231, Space Suit

If damaged in combat you must succeed on a Reflex save or the suit gains the broken condition and is disabled for hours, but if it already has the broken condition it's only disabled for minutes.

The reverse seems more likely.

It is not disabled for 1d6 minutes - it stops working altogether in 1d6 minutes, where you'll then likely die in the vacuum of space.

Starfinder, 'Space Suit', Page 231 wrote:
...or the space suit's life systems suffer catastrophic failure, gaining the broken condition and losing all environmental protections in 1d6 hours unless the suit is repaired. If you fail such a saving throw while the suit already has the broken condition, you lose all environmental protections in 1d6 minutes unless the suit is repaired.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber Subscriber

ah, "in" vice "for".... yes.

/facepalm


Ithnaar wrote:

Soldier Theme, level 6 ability is "Grunt"

"Treat your Strength as 1 higher when determining your bulk limit."

Seeing as bulk limit is determined by half your Strength (and you always round down), there is a 50/50 chance this ability has no effect.

Wondering if it is a holdover from Pathfinder, where every point of strength increased your carrying capacity.

Perhaps that 1 should be a 2.

Nope its specifically a benifit for people in power armor (the strongest of which sets your str to 29) with side benefits to players with low odd numbered str


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Bigguyinblack wrote:
Would we need a separate thread for things that are just unclear? For example a successful Trick Attack by the Operative causes the target to be Flat-Footed. Is that for everyone or just the Operative? And no mention is made of how long they are flat-footed.

Since flat-footed is now a condition, I believe it would be for any attack towards the target (analogous to other conditions, such as "sickened"). I don't know about the duration.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

The flatfooted duration is until the beginning of your next turn, unless you use debilitating trick to make the duration until the end of your next turn.


Colette Brunel wrote:

Page 430 stipulates that all armor of 1st level or higher comes with personal comm units; is such a thing stipulated in the armor section or the technological equipment section?

For that matter, is there any rule concerning free batteries with purchased equipment? Having to spend 60 credits for each battery-powered item can be deceptively costly with 1st-level wealth being 1,000 credits.

Do ysoki cheek pouches look full when they are stuffed, just like animals in the real world? If so, then that would limit their usefulness. It is a bit of a giveaway to have the shape of tactical doshko (greataxe) sticking out of the pouches.

A doshko doesn't fit in a square foot of space.


A doshko for a vesk, maybe. A doshko for an ysoki is another story.

As well, page 168 stipulates that weapons with standard ammunition come preloaded. But what do they come preloaded with? A pulsecaster rifle costs 100 credits and has a capacity of 40; does that mean it comes with a 330-credit, 40-charge, high-capacity battery?


Yep.

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