So one way to permanently link two locations is to use two teleport circles, one each way and then make them permanent which has a total cost of 2x 22500gp = 45000gp.
I was thinking that another way is to use greater create demiplane with a portal, then from within it cast create greater demiplane again to make a second portal from it to the second location, then make the demiplane permanent for 22500gp - so total cost 22500gp, much cheaper.
However, in the Greater Create Demiplane spell it does state that such a portal 'can only be used for planar travel', which seems to indicate that both your portals would be close to each other in the material plane.
So is it the case that once you create a demiplane all it's portals would then be physically next to each other in the material plane?
I think the wizards of High Sorcery in Krynn had the same idea to link their towers of high sorcery, but one opened to the abyss and allowed the Queen of Darkness, Takhisis onto the mortal plane. Some times cheap has unforeseen costs...
Naglfarthedwarf wrote: So one way to permanently link two locations is to use two teleport circles, one each way and then make them permanent which has a total cost of 2x 22500gp = 45000gp.
I was thinking that another way is to use greater create demiplane with a portal, then from within it cast create greater demiplane again to make a second portal from it to the second location, then make the demiplane permanent for 22500gp - so total cost 22500gp, much cheaper.
However, in the Greater Create Demiplane spell it does state that such a portal 'can only be used for planar travel', which seems to indicate that both your portals would be close to each other in the material plane.
So is it the case that once you create a demiplane all it's portals would then be physically next to each other in the material plane?
the spell demiplane make you create an actual plane inside another plane, so both of them are separate plane, which mean that the portal will work between them.
Scrapper wrote: I think the wizards of High Sorcery in Krynn had the same idea to link their towers of high sorcery, but one opened to the abyss and allowed the Queen of Darkness, Takhisis onto the mortal plane. Some times cheap has unforeseen costs... the tower in question were all in the material plane so they needed to go through another plane unlike demiplane which create a plane inside a plane
John Murdock - I'm not quite following you.
So when you cast create demiplane you choose either the Etherial Plane or the Astral Plane in which to make you're demiplane. So, say you cast create demiplane in your house and pick the etherial plane. By choosing the portal as your 'free' feature your house now has a permanent portal to your demiplane in the etherial plane. Walking through that portal will take you to your demiplane.
Now, while within your new demiplane you cast the spell again, and again choose portal as your feature. Where does that second portal lead? Does it lead to your house? Or can you specify where it goes like the 'Gate' spell it replicates?
Gate spell description: 'a gate spell functions much like a plane shift spell, except that the gate opens precisely at the point you desire'.
Naglfarthedwarf wrote: John Murdock - I'm not quite following you.
So when you cast create demiplane you choose either the Etherial Plane or the Astral Plane in which to make you're demiplane. So, say you cast create demiplane in your house and pick the etherial plane. By choosing the portal as your 'free' feature your house now has a permanent portal to your demiplane in the etherial plane. Walking through that portal will take you to your demiplane.
Now, while within your new demiplane you cast the spell again, and again choose portal as your feature. Where does that second portal lead? Does it lead to your house? Or can you specify where it goes like the 'Gate' spell it replicates?
Gate spell description: 'a gate spell functions much like a plane shift spell, except that the gate opens precisely at the point you desire'.
Yes, as Gate.
Create Greater Demiplane wrote: Portal: Your demiplane gains a permanent gate to one location on another plane, which can only be used for planar travel. This location must be very familiar to you. This gate is always open and usable from both sides, but you can secure it using normal means (such as by building a door around it).
I believe what you want to do would work (assuming both desired portal locations are valid), but your process and costing are a little off.
By my reading, your first casting of whichever version of the spell simply creates the plane with no free gate; none of the versions mentions getting any features for free, so we pick whichever version we like, and create a featureless demiplane. So far we've spent 500gp for the material component.
Next, we cast Create Demiplane Greater to add a feature (our first portal) to our demi-plane. We pay an additional $500gp for another material component and 22500gp for permanency. Total cost at this stage is 23500gp.
We then cast the spell again to add the second portal. Again, we spend 500gp for a material component, and I believe another 22500gp for permanency - I'm not sure on this one though, as it seems like it should be the intent, but looking at how it's written it seems like we might only need an additional permanency for enlarging the demi-plane but bizarrely not for adding features. Our total would, therefore, be at least 24000gp, or possibly 46,500gp if a second permanency is required.
EDIT: The portal feature is explicitly listed as permanent, so a second permanency is not required!
I believe the line restricting the portal to planar travel is to prevent you from casting spells through it, etc. rather than simply travelling through.
jbadams wrote: So far we've spent 500gp for the material component.[...]We pay an additional $500gp for another material component Where are you getting material components from? No version of Create Demiplane has a material component, from what I can see.
By the way, Naglfar, I don't see anything about a "free" feature from just creating a demiplane. I believe you would have to cast it three times, once to just create it and once each for the portals.
And I believe that would work. Even better, you could add even more portals, essentially turning your demiplane into a teleportation hub. And you would not need to pay a higher cost for Permanency, since that only applies if you made the demiplane larger. Even better, you could turn it into an interplanar travelling hub, not just from the Material to the Material. The Astral Plane is adjacent to all other planes, so portal away.
Nixitur wrote: jbadams wrote: So far we've spent 500gp for the material component.[...]We pay an additional $500gp for another material component Where are you getting material components from? No version of Create Demiplane has a material component, from what I can see. PRD Create Demiplane. Looking again however, I notice no component is listed for Create Demiplane, but both the Lesser and Greater versions list "a forked metal rod worth at least 500gp". I'm assuming something is in error; archives of Nethys list the component for all 3 variations.
Looking one more time I see I misread, we need a focus rather than a material component. So a one off, non - expended 500gp investment. :)
Do note that other people can use the gate as well given that it's always open and usable, so don't use it as a homebase unless you want the baddies to murder you in your sleep.
I can think of some people playing Kingmaker who'd just love this idea!
I think that works (I'm not an expert on planar travel), but there are some downsides.
1) Demiplanes are subject to special rules: One of them is that the creator can just expel people they don't like from their demiplane. So if the organization and creator have differences of opinion, (s)he can just shut your entire operation down.
2) Spells like planeshift and others can break into demiplanes meaning others could hijack your demiplane without knowing it, and break into your stuff (or ambush you). There's actually an entire season about this in the pathfinder society.
Naglfarthedwarf wrote: John Murdock - I'm not quite following you.
So when you cast create demiplane you choose either the Etherial Plane or the Astral Plane in which to make you're demiplane. So, say you cast create demiplane in your house and pick the etherial plane. By choosing the portal as your 'free' feature your house now has a permanent portal to your demiplane in the etherial plane. Walking through that portal will take you to your demiplane.
Now, while within your new demiplane you cast the spell again, and again choose portal as your feature. Where does that second portal lead? Does it lead to your house? Or can you specify where it goes like the 'Gate' spell it replicates?
Gate spell description: 'a gate spell functions much like a plane shift spell, except that the gate opens precisely at the point you desire'.
what i say is that your demiplane is a real plane even if conected to another plane they say this in create lesser demiplane
''The demiplane is another plane of existence, and therefore is outside the range of any spell or ability that cannot affect or reach other planes. Creatures can only enter the plane by the use of planar travel magic such as astral projection, etherealness, or plane shift. You are considered “very familiar” with your entire demiplane.''
so the gate from greater demiplane can be linked to another demiplane that is not linked to your plane, so if you want you can create a nexus plane to go to other plane via all the gate in that nexus plane, but all the other plane are only connected to that plane if you want
Thanks for all the great input guys. Yeah, I misread a line in the spell description and thought you got your first feature for free.
Glad this idea works as it's obviously more cost effective and cooler than teleport circle. It was mainly to link a city to an outpost, which would effectively mean that the outpost would have immediate access to all the city's strengths in terms of reinforcements, trade etc.
I guess there is an extra component of your demiplane being invaded or something, which can't happen with a teleport circle.
In either case, whether using a circle or a portal, the entrance itself would have to be defended - still, a demiplane would seem to make that easier in many ways i.e. timeless feature with summon monster IX or something.
you can always have a portal in the material plane but they say you can always use normal mean to secure it, so using magic to make only who you want to enter the gate or using a building to secure the passage and the like, i always like having a portal to go through my demiplane when i make one.
oh and you can't use teleportation circle to go from a plane to another plane since it works like greater teleport and greater teleport function like teleport but has no limit of distance and teleport say you can't travel to another plane
Additionally, Teleportation circle makes a 10ft diameter circle, gate is up to 20ft diameter. Second Addendum, you can pull things through a gate, having the soldiers lift that wagon above their heads to use the teleportation circle seems like a less efficient means of moving supplies. Bad for morale.
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