Hellknight

[Guinnesshero]

Ok my GM is getting rdy to run Crimson throne. I am considering Hellknight. without spoilers is there any thing I should avoid like certain orders or is it just a bad idea all around

[domicilius]

Hugely depends on the party and whether your GM is running the AP as written or not. Some parties have a large Hellknight influence, or at least don't mind working with them, but most parties (in my experience) view the Hellknights as enemies right from the word go. Ask your GM and the rest of the party how they would feel about having a Hellknight around at whatever passes for a Session 0 for your group and see if you can get some personal ties to the other characters so they see you as just another suit of armor. Hellknights certainly don't have *huge* plot importance in the first 3 books so you should be OK, but they might come into importance later (all of my CotCT instances have diverged before Book 4, so YMMV).

You'll also need to figure out why it is that your Hellknight character can just adventure with some freelancing nobodies. Hellknights have a structure and an organization, your character is likely to have a post or responsibilities that they should be taking care of, especially at the level 1. Maybe you can work with your GM to get a non-standard start for your Hellknight, perhaps as a liaison working with the Crimson Throne and the Korvosan Guard.

As far as orders go, the Order of the Nail is headquartered very near to Korvosa and as such would be the obvious Order your character could be from, but a member from another Order sent as a dignitary, spy, or messenger could also work. A member of the Order of the Nail will very likely come into conflict when interacting with Varisians or Shoanti, both of which make multiple appearances in plot NPCs. Hopefully your character can still find it in themselves to work with the party and the offending NPCs to accomplish their goal.

[fireshade]

In my opinion, Hellknight wouldn't work well. I feel like the focus on law and order might conflict with how the campaign encourages the party to resolve issues. Also, the local Order of the Nail may place a PC in a position where they might find themselves in conflict with the rest of the party.

I know that's pretty vague as I attempt to avoid spoiling anything, but the main thing is if you really wanted to try a Hellknight, talk it out with your GM and see how they feel about the idea and the adjustments they may need to make to smooth out such a character's participation.

[Guinnesshero]

Cool thanks for the info. ill get with the GM and the other players and try and hash it out. Conflicting with the AP was one of my biggest concerns. I didnt think about responsibility as a Hellknight

[taks]

I've got a guy that's going to be a Hellknight in the Order of Torrent in Hell's Rebels. Its urban as well, but a rather different theme. Given the nature of the connection between that order and the general story, there are complications for me, but the Torrent is tied to defending Kintargo, by any means possible, which offers a lot of leeway in his alignment "behavior" as well as good reasons to connect with the story. The Order of the Nail could offer similar opportunities in Korvosa, IMO.

[Bellona]

I suspect that a Hellknight would be rather difficult to pull off as a character concept in CotCT. The events in the AP would very likely pull the character too far away from the Hellknight organization's principles.

[Guinnesshero]

My GM shot it down. He said the strict adherence to the law that defines a Hellknight would be very difficult to pull off in this AP.

[taks]

That's too bad. My read is that their strict adherence to the law means obviously corrupt leadership should similarly be targeted for whatever retribution they intend to administer. This goes as far as making value judgements regarding what may be the "best" outcome in terms of the law. The law is, afterall, often ambiguous and even contradictory. That's why I allowed my player to pursue the Order of the Torrent path in HR.

[tonyz]

Having a Hellknight would actually be very nice for some aspects -- Kroft is trying to enforce the law in books 1-2, and it gives additional motivation for the quest for Neolandus in book 3 ("we need to legally depose Ileora, which means we need the person who can legally do it") which always struck me as a bit of a weak point in the plotting.

Admittedly, questing among the Shoanti would likely have some hard choices for a Hellknight.

[Mangenorn]

Order of the Torrent is LG, and their job is finding missing persons. They also have a particular grudge against the main villain (it's in the basic backstory of the AP, so not a spoiler), so they're flexible, at least in the terms of the AP.

Order of the Nail is LN (though I don't see how), their job is the elimination of all nomads. Not the nicest crowd.

Spoiler:

They also have no stake in any of this whatsoever.

Edit: now that I think about it, an Order of the Torrent armiger accompanied by an older Hellknight supervising him might work, especially if he starts on a missing child case to get his feet wet, so to speak.

[Rysky]

They were talking about Curse of the Crimson Throne, not Hell's Rebels.

Edit: your edit makes me think you knew that, but I'm unaware of any involvement Ileosa had with the Order of the Torrent.

[Mangenorn]

Rysky wrote:

They were talking about Curse of the Crimson Throne, not Hell's Rebels.

Hell's Rebels was mentioned by taks back there.

Rysky wrote:

Edit: your edit makes me think you knew that, but I'm unaware of any involvement Ileosa had with the Order of the Torrent.

She has none, which is part of the point. Order of the Torrent is a Hellknight order for which providing the city with a hero makes sense. I was mainly thinking how to work it in. Just an idea, even if it doesnt get used.

Spoiler:

My idea is that the older, full Hellknight of the Torrent would be sent to find the seneschal, while an armiger accompanies him for training, being given a task to find a missing child (which gets him together with the PCs at the start) while the full Hellknight generally fails at his task, but is on hand to initiate the younger PC, witness the obligatory duel with a Devil, etc. Would make a good jedi/padawan type of relationship.

This makes some sense because the Hellknights of the Torrent often go around independently trying to save kidnap victims and such. It is a predominantly lawful good order, after all.

[Rysky]

Taks mentioned HR, but that was it, the rest of this thread is about CotCT, so when you said the Order has a grudge against the main villain but didn't specify HR it was kinda confusing.

That being said I see no problem with an Order of the Torrent Hellknight in CotCT, and with the way things start in the Ap that's a perfect opening.