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As a newbie (played 4 games and still playing a campaign) I can't really decide between two of them, can you help me to decide? Or maybe is there some kind of efficent way to mix them? I want to deal OK damage (not low or high)and still want to be a skill monkey.
STR-16
DEX-15
CON-10
INT-16
WIS-10
CHA-8
Also I'm curious if that would be good or rubbish.
Str build does the most damage.
Dex has better AC and is better at skills.
That's pretty much the difference between the two.
I would NOT mix them. Pick one and go with it. Pathfinder rewards specialization and pretty much punishes builds that try to do too much of everything.
with those stats I'd suggest dropping dex to a 14 and boosting con to a 12, getting 1 hp per level for "free" is pretty good.
But I guess before that, How are stats generated? Are those stats before or after a race? Do you have a race in mind?
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with those stats I'd suggest dropping dex to a 14 and boosting con to a 12, getting 1 hp per level for "free" is pretty good.
But I guess before that, How are stats generated? Are those stats before or after a race? Do you have a race in mind?
Those stats has been generated after human. I would like to play as human because bonus feat+skill focus would be good and it's iconic for investigator. But if I would decide to go for a dex inv. I might consider sylph or elf.
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So to summery though.
Dex based is to boost AC, to consolidate stat points, and still be okay in a fight. Very popular to go 1 level of inspired blade swashbuckler to get Dex to damage with a rapier from lv1. And your mutagen boosts AC more and penalizes your wisdom, which isn't your main stat.
With this build you're using a rapier or similar weapon, wearing mithral chain, and using a buckler. AC is really high.
Str builds are used but you kinda need to decide what you're benchmark is for skills to really use them. They will wield a two handed weapon, maybe with reach, and be looking to get power attack and str mutagen. Your offensive powers can keep up with the best of them, and you still are great at skills, very much enough for me to call them a skill monkey. Your AC is lower than the dex build, but easily high enough to be fine on the front line.
Those stats has been generated after human. I would like to play as human because bonus feat+skill focus would be good and it's iconic for investigator. But if I would decide to go for a dex inv. I might consider sylph or elf.with those stats I'd suggest dropping dex to a 14 and boosting con to a 12, getting 1 hp per level for "free" is pretty good.
But I guess before that, How are stats generated? Are those stats before or after a race? Do you have a race in mind?
If that's the case for human I strongly suggest 14+2/14/14/14/12/8 for the stat spread for str and 10/16+2/12/16/10/8 for dex. If elf I'd suggest 10/16+2/14-2/14+2/12/8. Trying to stay close to your original stats.
Cause with only 10 con and a d8 you can be in trouble if something hits you.
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So to summery though.
Dex based is to boost AC, to consolidate stat points, and still be okay in a fight. Very popular to go 1 level of inspired blade swashbuckler to get Dex to damage with a rapier from lv1. And your mutagen boosts AC more and penalizes your wisdom, which isn't your main stat.
With this build you're using a rapier or similar weapon, wearing mithral chain, and using a buckler. AC is really high.
Str builds are used but you kinda need to decide what you're benchmark is for skills to really use them. They will wield a two handed weapon, maybe with reach, and be looking to get power attack and str mutagen. Your offensive powers can keep up with the best of them, and you still are great at skills, very much enough for me to call them a skill monkey. Your AC is lower than the dex build, but easily high enough to be fine on the front line.
Thank you for all those informations, but now I have fresher ones :d Would you recommend medium armor proficency and multiclassing for STR build ? And what minimum number would be good for DEX in a STR build ?
Thank you for all those informations, but now I have fresher ones :d Would you recommend medium armor proficency and multiclassing for STR build ? And what minimum number would be good for DEX in a STR build ?
Do you gain access to traits?
Medium armor can be helpful but not needed a 14 dex with light armor, mutagen and barkskin gets you good enough AC.A dip for str would probably be armored hulk barbarian or steelblooded bloodrager and go in full plate, this would tank your dex skills with a 12 dex, but you'd still be great at the int skills and still have skill points to be pretty good at dex skills.
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One thing you might do is take one level of Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade). Then you get Weapon Finesse (rapier only) and Weapon Focus (rapier) as free bonus feats. You also have panache based on both charisma and intelligence, and you get more class skills. You can then select the feat Fencing Grace and get DEX to damage.
That was my plan at first but I became doubtful about damage and feats
I debated and posted about this awhile back. I agree with most of what has been said. You have to remember that the str mutagen hurts int so your skills take a hit and your studied target duration is lessened too. I went the dex root for that and for the flavor. As a compromise I went with a 13 str for power attack and to carry my stuff. Honestly his damage is pretty good.. Maybe a little less than a str but not by a lot. I did go with a 12 con and ended up buying a con boost asap. Did half elf and favor going to a boost in inspiration rolls. So 1d6+1 at level 5
Thank you for all those informations, but now I have fresher ones :d Would you recommend medium armor proficency and multiclassing for STR build ? And what minimum number would be good for DEX in a STR build ?
You don't need medium armor proficieny with mithral kikko or mithral +1 comfort breastplate.
One thing you might do is take one level of Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade). Then you get Weapon Finesse (rapier only) and Weapon Focus (rapier) as free bonus feats. You also have panache based on both charisma and intelligence, and you get more class skills. You can then select the feat Fencing Grace and get DEX to damage.That was my plan at first but I became doubtful about damage and feats
The Swashigator is not bad damage. It is just not completely optimized damage. You will not be the strongest at the table but you will have good defenses and a decent offense. What makes the swashigator really good is he is a skills master. Inspiration AND Panche to boost skills and most the skills are class skills for you.
STR is the better damage for 2 reasons. Power attack and 2 handed damage. They also can make better use of the Polymorph Extracts. So they can reach higher levels of damage than the Swashigator.
After reviewing your stats and such I recommend a Reach STR based Investigator. The Str build still is good at skills compared to many classes, they just can not spike as high as the Swashigator on bonuses. Not to mention Disable device, Acrobatics, escape artist and such are DEX based so that is why the swashigator outshines the STR build. Also, STR mutagen hits your INT so a Swashigator has his full INT on all his INT based skills making them higher as well.
Eventually when it matters you can pick up a Vest of Stable Mutation and ignore the mental penalties to Int and stuff.
With that Stat Spread I would say go with Strength.
Eventually when it matters you can pick up a Vest of Stable Mutation and ignore the mental penalties to Int and stuff.
With that Stat Spread I would say go with Strength.
At that point your extracts and UMD can replace skill checks. The benefits of a skill monkey are in the early game. Knowledge checks tend to stay relevant tho.
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I would go strength and int. Trade your dex and con. Pick up artful dodge and 2wf.
Int/str 2w builds are my favorite Investigators. You get better damage, great skills, and more inspiration.
I would go strength and int. Trade your dex and con. Pick up artful dodge and 2wf.
Int/str 2w builds are my favorite Investigators. You get better damage, great skills, and more inspiration.
If her trades Dex and COn he would have a 10 dex and not qualify for Twf.
Personally, I would just go Reach with his stats and pick up Toughness and a Con belt ASAP.
Feats:
Human: TOughness
1 HD: COmbat Reflexes
3 HD: Power attack
5 HD+: whatever floats the boat.
Rely on your Dex and toughness to survive the early game till you get your Extracts like Blur and Displacement.
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I would go strength and int. Trade your dex and con. Pick up artful dodge and 2wf.
Int/str 2w builds are my favorite Investigators. You get better damage, great skills, and more inspiration.
If her trades Dex and COn he would have a 10 dex and not qualify for Twf.
Personally, I would just go Reach with his stats and pick up Toughness and a Con belt ASAP.
Feats:
Human: TOughness
1 HD: COmbat Reflexes
3 HD: Power attack
5 HD+: whatever floats the boat.Rely on your Dex and toughness to survive the early game till you get your Extracts like Blur and Displacement.
Artful Dodge allows you to use your int in place of dex requirements for feats. It really is a game changer for a lot of str builds that want to go ambi.
Even works with non-investigators by making studied combatant line of feats work well.
That's the final product (race:Human)
STR-16
DEX-12
CON-14
INT-16
WIS-10
CHA-8Should i make CON 12, Dex 10 or is it good enough ?
This is good for a Str build yes
Id personally go with:
Str: 16, Dex: 14, Con: 12, Int: 16, Wis: 10, Cha: 8
I like using a Longspear and Reach Tactics. You have access to Both Enlarge person and Long Arm. So you can pick up AoOs easy enough.
Empiricist Investigator
Traits
* Student of Philosophy
* Armor Expert
Str (15) Dex (14) Con (12) Int (18) Wis (10) Cha (7)
At 2nd level, an empiricist uses his Intelligence modifier instead of the skill’s typical ability for all Disable Device, Perception, Sense Motive, and Use Magic Device checks. He can also use his Intelligence modifier instead of Charisma on any Diplomacy checks made to gather information.
Student of Philosophy lets you use your Intelligence for diplomacy, except for gathering information (empiricist takes care of that) and lets you sue intelligence for bluffing (but not for feinting in combat)
Your intimidate will suck. But hey. Everyone has a weakness.
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For Armor, grab a mithril breastplate. 0ACP with armor expert, so it doesn't matter that you are lacking medium proficiency.
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At lvl4 get +1 strength, and you are up to Str16.
I don't feel you need that high of a int for investigator's. Personally I'd swap the str and int of that build for that build. Maybe even drop wisdom a little to start off with the 16 (int).
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Hmm, nobody mentioned dex to damage. Particularly with improved crit or keen on a rapier. With quick study and studied strike, the investigator is pretty powerful later on as well as hard to hit. I generally run a minimum 11 in STR, 12 in CON, dump CHA to whatever is allowable, 10 in WIS, and the rest split between INT and DEX. I tend to favor INT for skills and studied combat duration. If you are an empiricist, no need to care about CHA for UMD anyway (2nd level and later).
You do not lose duration on studied target, that is not something a penalty to int does. Attribute penalties do specific things, not actually lower your stat.
According to RAW, yes, you do.
Ability Score Damage, Penalty, and Drain
Diseases, poisons, spells, and other abilities can all deal damage directly to your ability scores. This damage does not actually reduce an ability, but it does apply a penalty to the skills and statistics that are based on that ability.
...
Some spells and abilities cause you to take an ability penalty for a limited amount of time. While in effect, these penalties function just like ability damage, but they cannot cause you to fall unconscious or die. In essence, penalties cannot decrease your ability score to less than 1.
It then goes on to specifically call out spell DCs, but does not add any further qualifications. Studied combat duration is a statistic based on INT, after all.
Ability damage applies a -1 to some stuff.
Intelligence: Damage to your Intelligence score causes you to take penalties on Intelligence-based skill checks. This penalty also applies to any spell DCs based on Intelligence. A character with an Intelligence score of 0 is comatose.
That's what int damage does.
And any other statistic based on intelligence, per the line that I quoted from the PRD. Penalties can't make you comatose, however, also per the line I quoted.
Dotting.
How come I never thought of dual talent for investigator? Great idea PCScipio!
Personally I'd switch dex and con, but that's just a preference.
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Thank you guys/gals for all the ideas-informations you've given to me, I've played my first game with this build today;
Empiricst Inv/Free Style Fighter
STR-18 DEX-14 CON-12 INT-16 WIS-10 CHA-8
Traits-Student of Philosophy, Reactionary
Feats-Combat Reflexes, Martial Flexibility
Extracts: Enlarge Person, Comp. Languages, Extend Arm, Expeditious Retreat, Shiled
I've selected 3 knowledges: Local, Dungeoneering and Religion (I feel bad for selecting local tho because I have high diplomacy)
Armor:Chain Shirt
Weapons:Lucerne Hammer, Longsword, Light Crossbow, Switchblade (can be pretty useful if you want to have a hidden weapon)
That game was pretty enjoyable, I was good at both combat and skills, extend arm-enlarge person+combat reflexes was pretty devastating
Well I have used the questioner archtype from magic tactics toolbox do not know if your gm allows it but it becomes a crazy skill monkey and can use offensive spells like reach with a longspear and be great at skills but this is entierly different build.