How to calculate the statistics of your animal companion?


Rules Questions


Hello paizo people, I've started game mastering about 1 year back and now a friend of mine wants to play a druid and I'm not entirely sure on how to calculate the statsitcs of his, for example, bear.

Here we have the Bear from the Animal Choices:
> Bear from animal choices <
and here we have the Animal Companion Base Statstics Table:
> Base Statistics Table <

My main question here is what things add up and what not?
Especially the 4th (or 7th) level advancements.
I've come to the conclusion that probably everything adds up right?

So for example a bear from a 9th level druid could look like this:
(both ability score increases into con)

Size Medium
Init +3 low-light vision, scent;

Defense
AC 21, touch 13, flat-footed 18 (+3 Dex, +8 natural)
HP 60 (8d8 (avarage 36) + 24 from 8x3 con mod.)
Fort +9, Ref +9, Will +3

Offense
Speed 40ft
Melee bite +12(1d6+6), 2 claws +12 (1d4+6
Space 5ft.; Reach 5ft.

Statistics
Str 22, Dex 16, Con 17, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6;

Plus his tricks, feats and skills.
Is this correct?

And onther question: as I understand the rules it would never be possible by raw that his bear would grow in size again right? Only way would be spells.
I mean this sounds fine but a medium bear feal a bit... well small. Concidering the fact that you could easily get a lion or roc which grow to large.
I'm saying this because I highly anticipate that he wants at some point a large bear companion (also for roleplay purposes) which I can totally understand. So I would have to house roule this and try to adapt the bear statistics to something large.
Any other ideas?

Thank you very much!
- Pryor


Linking screenshots of a readily available webpage? Now I've seen everything.

Yes, the advancement at 4th or 7th level is an addition. Take the constrictor snake:

PRD wrote:

Snake, Constrictor

Starting Statistics: Size Medium; Speed 20 ft., climb 20 ft., swim 20 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d3); Ability Scores Str 15, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2; Special Attacks grab; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.

4th-Level Advancement: Size Large; AC +1 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4); Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4; Special Attacks constrict 1d4.

It has +2 natural armor at the beginning. It is increased by one, to +3, at level 4. It would make no sense if it's natural armor decreased.

As for the stats you've posted, I'm sorry but I can't find it in me to double check your math. And I can't help you with the bear either.


All animal companions get those base boosts.

Specific ones add to that.

Leveled up ones add to THAT too.

It all stacks up.

Scarab Sages

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I want to apologize for the posters who want to quickly comment rather than provide either a substansive "yes, those numbers are correct", or trying to explain how to do things. In short, yes, it all adds up. Feats or magic items might provide additional bonuses that have non-stacking types, but in general, the base AC animal statistics, the 4th/7th level advancement, and the AC table benefits all combine to produce the "base" statistics.

Your numbers are correct. However, in the the belief that if we leave it at that you or another poster will need to revisit this question, I want to explain how we get there.

Lets slow this down a bit, take it step by step. Please bear with me for some of my comments - Others who may not be as versed in the rules as you may see this post, and I am wrting for them as well.

As a note, you should link to your sources in the furture. D20PFSRD (where it looks like you got those screenshots) is posting that information legally, there is no reason to hide the source of that info. And information not in the tables is needed as well.

Paizo PRD entry on Druids, for refrence.

First, the 1st level AC bear. From the List:

Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 40 ft.; AC +2 natural armor;
Attack bite (1d4), 2 claws (1d3); Ability Scores Str 15, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.

So we use those stats to calculate the Bear as if it were any PC or NPC. We apply the bonuses from the AC Table as well, noting that an AC has D8 Hit Dice as per the Druid entry on Animal companions.

1st level Bear:
Size Small;
Init +2; Speed 40 ft.;

HP 11 (2d8+2) (Depending on your house rules (average vs roll) this can vary)

AC 14: 10 + 2Dex + 2Nat

Melee attack: +3 (1BAB, 2STR)
Attack bite +3 (1d4+2), 2 claws +3 (1d3+2);

Saves: Fort: 4 (3BASE+1CON) Ref: 5 (3BASE+2DEX) WILL: 1 (0BASE+1WIS)

Skill Points: 2, Feats: 1

Tricks Known: 7 (6 for INT + 1 Bonus Trick) (Handle Animal tells you how many tricks an Animal normally can learn)

Ability Scores Str 15, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6;
Special Qualities low-light vision, scent, link, share spells.

Now, no major changes happen until 4th level, when the bear gets the advancement. This changes the base bear, but only in the ways specified.

4th-Level Advancement: Size Medium; Attack bite (1d6), 2 claws (1d4); Ability Scores Str +4, Dex –2, Con +2.

Since the AC table is cumulative, you just need to adjust the base bear with the above bonuses, and then apply the Bonuses in the AC table.

That gets you (with the ability increase to con):

4th level Bear:
Size Medium;
Init +2; Speed 40 ft.;

HP 30 (4d8+12) (The Con change provides retroactive HP, just like for PCs)

AC 16: 10 + 2Dex + 4Nat

Melee attack: +8 (3BAB, 5STR)
Attack bite +8 (1d4+5), 2 claws +8 (1d3+5);

Saves: Fort: 7 (4BASE+3CON) Ref: 6 (4BASE+2DEX) WILL: 2 (1BASE+1WIS)

Skill Points: 4, Feats: 2

Tricks Known: 8 (6 for INT + 2 Bonus Trick)

Ability Scores Str 20, Dex 14 , Con 16, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6;
Special Qualities low-light vision, scent, link, share spells, evasion

Now its just incremental changes from the AC table. That gives us, at level 9 (both increases in CON)

9th level Bear:
Size Medium;
Init +3;Speed 40 ft.;

HP 60 (8d8+24)

AC 19: 10 + 3Dex + 6Nat

Melee attack: +12 (6BAB, 6STR)
Attack bite +12 (1d4+5), 2 claws +12 (1d3+5);

Saves: Fort: 9 (6BASE+3CON) Ref: 9 (6BASE+3DEX) WILL: 3 (2BASE+1WIS)

Skill Points: 8, Feats: 4

Tricks Known: 10 (6 for INT + 4 Bonus Trick)

Ability Scores Str 22, Dex 16 , Con 17, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6;
Special Qualities low-light vision, scent, link, share spells, evasion, devotion, multiattack

And there you go, a level 9 Bear AC.

Now, the bear as an AC does not grow again. Its an unfortunate design decision, and does seem small. It does however provide a solid melee companion with no issues traveling through the 5 ft wide cooridoors common in dungeons.

I am unsure how I would design a large size bear companion. Perhaps a second advancement at 7 as a house rule, but make sure there is a drawback beyond the -2 dex for size.


Thank you very much for this detailed explanation burkoJames.

As I read this I also didn't catch how you calculated the total tricks known. But of course it's dependend on the intelligence as stated in the handle animal section.

D20PFSRD wrote:

Teach an Animal a Trick

You can teach an animal a specific trick with one week of work and a successful Handle Animal check against the indicated DC. An animal with an Intelligence score of 1 can learn a maximum of three tricks, while an animal with an Intelligence score of 2 can learn a maximum of six tricks.

Also thanks for the explanation how you handle sources here.

Usually I would just post relevant screenshots but paizo seems to dislike to imbed images direktly.


You want to apologize for people answering quickly 3 hours after the op posted?

Dude.


Druids log its for PFS , but still a lot of good info.

going through the math on making an animal companion


The bear staying medium has never made much sense, especially when you consider that a wolf goes to large.

For you home game, there is nothing wrong with simply saying the player can have a grizzly bear (or whatever you want to call it) companion that uses the stats of a large cat instead of those of a bear.

Grand Lodge

>Pokes head in<
So, my druid, a Saurian Shaman, just hit 7th and his Ankylosaur now goes from medium to large with a +4 Con boost in doing so.

If the dino's HP increases retroactively, is that an additional 14 HP [2 per level] or is it something else?

Ankylosuar [base]
10 Str/14 Dex/9 Con/2 Int/12 Wis/8 Cha

Ankylosaur [w/ progression, *score increase at 4th]
12/16/10*/2/12/8

Ankylosaur [@7th]
20/14/14/2/12/8


Increases to con or int give retroactive hp or skill points.


Retroactive hit points for sure.

I've got a hunter with the same pet (ankylosaurus), at level 2 I named him dwarven for "broken egg" because it's a hard shell that it hard to out the pieces back together on.


Yes the HP boost is retroactive. Ankylosaurs really need it.

Grand Lodge

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Yes the HP boost is retroactive. Ankylosaurs really need it.

So, yes to 14 additional hit points with the size increase?

And my dino hasn't gone down often, with a 26 AC [+3 Dex/+13 NA] most things couldn't hit it- especially after a "full defense" command.

Now, at 7th/Large and 20 Str, my dino still has 26 AC [+2 Dex/+15 NA/ -1 Size]- i'm just glad the dino finally has a decent chance to hit stuff. From a +5/1d6+1 to +8/2d6+5 dmg.

It's touch AC is horrendous though.


Selvaxri wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Yes the HP boost is retroactive. Ankylosaurs really need it.
So, yes to 14 additional hit points with the size increase?

I don't know how many people you need to say yes, but yes.

Grand Lodge

Some Random Dood wrote:
Selvaxri wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Yes the HP boost is retroactive. Ankylosaurs really need it.
So, yes to 14 additional hit points with the size increase?
I don't know how many people you need to say yes, but yes.

no one confirmed with a solid yes. just affirmation that con bonus grants retroactive hp. For all i know, it could have been only 7 HP.


Selvaxri wrote:
Some Random Dood wrote:
Selvaxri wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Yes the HP boost is retroactive. Ankylosaurs really need it.
So, yes to 14 additional hit points with the size increase?
I don't know how many people you need to say yes, but yes.
no one confirmed with a solid yes. just affirmation that con bonus grants retroactive hp. For all i know, it could have been only 7 HP.

you got +4 to CON which mean a modifier of +2 higher which mean you get 2 more HP per HD, so what more do you need to understand that simple concept of HP boost is retroactive, we can't say how much your dino will get in total HP because we don't know its HD but you don't need us to make a simple calculation for that or else i think you are in lot of trouble if you want to play pathfinder


I had the same issue with the bear only staying medium.

We houseruled an additional size increase at 7. That's it. It just got bigger. Used the size adjustment rules. It is still weaker than a large cat so no balance issues arise


Selvaxri wrote:
Some Random Dood wrote:
Selvaxri wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Yes the HP boost is retroactive. Ankylosaurs really need it.
So, yes to 14 additional hit points with the size increase?
I don't know how many people you need to say yes, but yes.
no one confirmed with a solid yes. just affirmation that con bonus grants retroactive hp. For all i know, it could have been only 7 HP.

BNW answered with a solid yes, so I don't know how we could be any clearer about it. And you said yourself that you got a +4 to con, which is a mod of +2, so you would retroactively gain +2 hp per HD.

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