Somewhat back on-topic, that was back when Thieves (they didn't call them Rogues until 2nd Edition) had d6 hit dice and 1/2 BAB (worse than Cleric on both counts, while the Wizard precursor known as Magic-Users had d4 hit dice and 2/5 BAB), but you had pretty much NO build options with which to fix this. Which -- rambling back off-topic again -- reminds me of a different campaign at close to the same time in which I played a Thief, Rolled 00 (Royalty) for Social Status, and rolled 1 for initial hit points . . . .
At first level, they were pretty terrible, but back then the Thief earned levels at twice the rate as anyone else. When a Fighter or Ranger was second or third level a Thief was a fifth or sixth. 5d6 hit dice compared to 2d10, and close to the same THAC0 thanks to the XP difference.
Also, their Backstab (forerunner of Sneak Attack) was a multiplier of the attack damage, so you wanted to use the biggest weapon you could. For Thieves (unless multiclass with all the awfulness that 1st/2nd Edition loaded that with), this wasn't much of a selection, but Assassins had Backstab with the same progression per level (somewhat slower per XP) and could use any weapon (although the Assassin class itself had its own hard level cap).
I have been toying with the idea of replacing Sneak Attack dice with a function that works like a Critical Multiplier (and adds to an existing Critical Multiplier when relevant), but the problem with that is that in D&D 3.x/Pathfinder it is a LOT easier for anyone to get proficiency with their weapon of choice, so this would lead to a flock of Greatsword-wielding Rogues unless something were done to adjust the Sneak Attack Multiplier progression to the weapon size . . . Which is probably why D&D 3.x went with the (almost) fixed Sneak Attack die size in the first place.
My 9th-level unchained rogue, Kujo the Butcher, is easily the scariest martial in the party, not because of his damage per say, but because of his horrible, debilitating debuffs.
And he isn't even optimized for Dexterity! He could be SO much meaner if I wasn't married to the axe-wielding shark butcher concept.
Love your characters, but I wish you would add in a section of the tactics of the character. Makes it a lot easier to figure out the goal of the build. Just an idea.
My 9th-level unchained rogue, Kujo the Butcher, is easily the scariest martial in the party, not because of his damage per say, but because of his horrible, debilitating debuffs.
And he isn't even optimized for Dexterity! He could be SO much meaner if I wasn't married to the axe-wielding shark butcher concept.
I still say that a Mark of the Grinning Skull (scaling unchained item) would make this even scarier. An extra -2 on shaken with all these other debilitating effects is ridiculous.
Love your characters, but I wish you would add in a section of the tactics of the character. Makes it a lot easier to figure out the goal of the build. Just an idea.My 9th-level unchained rogue, Kujo the Butcher, is easily the scariest martial in the party, not because of his damage per say, but because of his horrible, debilitating debuffs.
And he isn't even optimized for Dexterity! He could be SO much meaner if I wasn't married to the axe-wielding shark butcher concept.
I generally do that for the NPC characters, but not really for characters made to be used as PCs (in those cases, the player decides the tactics, not me).
For spellcasting characters though, I often put an "ongoing spells" section under their Special Abilities, which is somewhat similar to what Paizo does with their tactics sections.
I still say that a Mark of the Grinning Skull (scaling unchained item) would make this even scarier. An extra -2 on shaken with all these other debilitating effects is ridiculous.My 9th-level unchained rogue, Kujo the Butcher, is easily the scariest martial in the party, not because of his damage per say, but because of his horrible, debilitating debuffs.
And he isn't even optimized for Dexterity! He could be SO much meaner if I wasn't married to the axe-wielding shark butcher concept.
Ooh! Thanks for pointing that out!
Sooooo, how about unconventional builds?
I'm thinking ones that pounce, ones that bad touch people to death, ones wiht multiple familiars etc.
Takes some time to come online, but major magic - chill touch, improved unarmed strike 2wf and/or natural attacks, shadowdancer 3 for shadow and Rogue Trick - ninja Trick - pressure points. It's an alternate revenue stream, str dmg instead of HP.
Granted, Rogue and chill touch are the weakest part of the combo, would probably work better as any number of other classes, except for the Dex to hp damage for dealing with stuff immune to str dmg..
Sniper goggles make me want a rogue archer , but scout 8 is only 1/rnd now so mounted archery is no go.. I don't like the hoops and situationality of shatter defenses.. moonlight stalker with greater feint is also a deep chain, somewhat unreliable, and requires GM allowing ranged feints.. Grtr invis from EH Fey is really high lvl, and wands are too expensive for a core strategy..
It's a shame that pharasma obedience looks so nice, will be unable to resist joining the throng, being able to at last make a functional 2+ dagger Rogue when I finally get to play one.