how \ what creatures have AC 20 at level 1 ???
there is non at CR 1 with that AC.
and a full plate opponent? kill and sell the armor!!!now, as magus, your power is being able to attack with touch as well.
spell combat is nice, but not always the smartest choice.
Seriously. I've never even played PFS, but 20ish AC at level 1 shouldn't be happening. At all.
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Can you give an example of one of the scenarios you played (in a spoiler tag)? 20AC sounds a bit high for tier 1-2. Maybe not for a boss, but still sounds a little high to be routine. Were you playing with higher level characters that might have pushed things into the higher tier? It's possible for a level 1 character to end up in a CR 8 or 9 fight if the other characters are higher level and the average party level puts you into the level 4-5 subtier.
As for things to help your to-hit... At first level, there's only so much you can do. But try to remember all the bonuses when they are available. Shocking grasp, for example, grants a +3 bonus to-hit if the target is wearing metal armor or wielding a metal weapon. Don't forget to ask about that when you're using the spell.
Also, don't forget to use your Arcane Pool to enchant your weapon. The bonus to-hit won't stack with masterwork, but once you're able to get a +1 weapon, it will stack with that. Eventually you'll be getting a good bonus to-hit from doing this, once you can make your weapon +3 or + 4.
I'm not sure what Arcanas you have planned, but Arcane Accuracy can help.
Take Weapon Focus when you can.
Eventually invest in items to help your to-hit. There's an Ioun stone that gives a +1 competence bonus.
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I can think of at least one PFS scenario that this can happen in.
Seriously, you shouldn't need a 20 in Dex. You are only 1 point of attack behind a fighter at level 1, which is nothing.
As you go up levels you spells should more than make a up the difference that you drop in BAB.
And spellcombat gives you a lot more offensive power. Look up some of the good spells you can use with it.
Shocking Grasp is a constant favorite with Magus players. Chill touch (as it gives out multiple attacks over the rounds as you go up levels) is also a good option. As is Frostbite, which adds in a small debuff. (or a big one if you get a drop of a barbarian before he rages.)
But make sure you have an attack cantrip so you can always use it.
why are you fighting a white dragon at level 1?
There is this one scenario, the 3rd in an arc.
Character's using that as their first arc would encounter the white dragon at level 1.
Hopefully players don't skip the first two scenarios in the arc and show up to the fight with just starting gear.
AC 20 at level 1, oracle:
18 dex, plus racial bonus (elf, Kitsune, halfling etc) to tap it to 20.
Armor of Bones from the Bones Revelation.
Light Shield.Total cost, 3 gp (9 for steel).
You could up it to 23 AC with a heavy shield, size mod, AND a kit (if your GM will let you stack a kilt on the Armor of Bones.)
Also, OP? You're a Magus. Your spells aren't completely useless in battle. And you should, HOPEFULLY, have some dex or str... If you're a dex/int build trying to use melee, grab a rapier and take Weapon Finesse. :P
There is a huge difference between characters and NPC's.
Scenarios very rarely use optimized builds.
Potion or ward of reduce person is a great buff to ac and accuracy that has a net zero effect on damage when using Dex to damage.
A net increase to DPR.
Same damage/attack but you hit more frequently.
Spell combat truestrike with a trip.
Now 20+ AC guy has to spend his (move)turn getting up and provoking AoO from everyone that threatens. Everyone gets a +4 to hit him while he's prone. When you do your AoO make it another trip. To keep him on the ground.
Won't work on dragons but it should work on any humanoids until your BAB gets higher. Also for airborne Magic Missile, after you create an illusory wall/hut/Boulder around yourself.
Potion or ward of reduce person is a great buff to ac and accuracy that has a net zero effect on damage when using Dex to damage.
It makes your weapons one size smaller so not quite zero effect.
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with a monk 20 ac at level one isn't that hard
Lady-J, Seriously. Comments like these aren't helpful. It's VERY HARD for a monk to get AC 20 at lv one WHILE also being a playable character via other stats on a 20 pt buy.
On your super stat rolls sure, a monk will naturally just have tons of stats for tons of AC and still be great at everything.
But for most tables your "benchmarks" are completely off base and not helpful.
Like pretend someone was giving you advice that you should have at least at +50 to attack at lv1 and that no character should wear armor. Would that be useful advice for you? If you ask how they tell you that their table plays where everyone's stats are 100 at lv1. So does that advice really help you that you need to start with at least a +50 to hit and should never wear armor, when your table doesn't play with the stats that he's using?
Lady J's stats are 4d6 re roll 1,2 drop lowest if no 18 is rolled highest roll is an 18.
This leads to her view of stats being, "as a "workable" score at level 1 is 18 in your main stat pre racials and a 14-18 in your secondary stat with a 14-16 in your 3rd most used stat 9-14 on all others nothing below a 9(or 10 ideally) pre racials"
That comes out to probably something like a 40+ pt buy stat array on average.
This is why a 20 ac at lv1 is easy for a monk, they have a 20 dex and 18 wisdom with dodge feat, and their stats are probably something like, 16/18+2/14/12/18/10 or something.
But trying to reach those numbers on a normal 20pt buy, like in PFS getting a 20 dex and 18 wis comes out to 8/18+2/7/7/18/7, an unplayable character.
Potion or ward of reduce person is a great buff to ac and accuracy that has a net zero effect on damage when using Dex to damage.It makes your weapons one size smaller so not quite zero effect.
The +1 dex increase to damage counters the average -1 from using a smaller weapon.
Thanks Chess Pwn.The +1 dex increase to damage counters the average -1 from using a smaller weapon.Potion or ward of reduce person is a great buff to ac and accuracy that has a net zero effect on damage when using Dex to damage.It makes your weapons one size smaller so not quite zero effect.
Yes, thanks. I hadn't taken that into account.
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As came up, tactics is the other suggestion that can help. Flanking, finding a way to make the opponent prone, or in the case of a Magus, if you're having trouble hitting, you can truestrike, or you don't have to spell combat every round. In general, I think you're better off using spell combat for the extra roll, but if you're ever in a situation where you only hit on a 19 or 20 on the die, you're slightly more likely to hit once if you only attack once.
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If your attack stat is 18 as a Magus you're doing fine. PFS will feature the rare spikes in difficulty that can lead to frustration, but they're far from the baseline expectation. Just play the Magus you want to play and you should be fine.
I've played your scenario and at least one other that features enemies with unusually high armor class. The best solution is to prepare a spell or two that ignores AC, such as Color Spray. Other than that, take comfort that the rare enemy with 20 AC at level 1 tends to be poorly optimized for damage.
Besides, it could be worse. It could be a module with "keep" in the title.
As came up, tactics is the other suggestion that can help. Flanking, finding a way to make the opponent prone, or in the case of a Magus, if you're having trouble hitting, you can truestrike, or you don't have to spell combat every round. In general, I think you're better off using spell combat for the extra roll, but if you're ever in a situation where you only hit on a 19 or 20 on the die, you're slightly more likely to hit once if you only attack once.
If you normally only hit on a 19-20, you are better off eating the penalty and rolling twice.
1-.95^2 = .0975 miss chance
1-.9 = .1 miss chance.
You also get a .0025 (1/400) chance of hitting on both.
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I think you've got those backwards. You have a .1 chance to hit rolling once and a .0975 chance to hit at least once rolling twice.
You are giving up the .0025 chance that you hit twice, but that's included in the .0975 chance that you hit at least once already.
EDIT: actually, my nunbers aren't quite right either. If you only hit on exactly a 20 (not over, meaning not needing the nat-20 hit) then your chance to hit at least once rolling twice is .0975.
You would hit on an 18 or better without spell combat, so .15 chance to hit with one attack vs .0975 chance to hit with at least one of your two spell combat attacks.
EDIT AGAIN: If you need a 19-20, then your chance to hit at least once is:
.1 + .1 - (.1x.1) = .19
To hit with one attack it's a 17 or better, or .2.
EDIT AGAIN AGAIN: If you need an 18 or better to hit with spell combat, that's where you chance to hit at least once becomes greater than your chance to hit rolling once.
.15 + .15 - (.15x.15) = .2775
Vs
.25 for no spell combat (16 or better)
Going the other direction, if you need a 21 on the die (so nat-20 only) with spell combat, you've got the same .0975 chance as needing a 20. Without spell combat, you'd have a .1 chance (19-20).
So in those three very rare cases, needing exactly a 19 on the die or exactly a 20 on the die, or needing a 21 (nat-20), you are slightly more likely to hit at least once if you don't use spell combat. It makes the most sense if you need exactly a 20 (in the OPs case, against an AC 23).
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with a monk 20 ac at level one isn't that hardLady-J, Seriously. Comments like these aren't helpful. It's VERY HARD for a monk to get AC 20 at lv one WHILE also being a playable character via other stats on a 20 pt buy.
On your super stat rolls sure, a monk will naturally just have tons of stats for tons of AC and still be great at everything.
But for most tables your "benchmarks" are completely off base and not helpful.
+1'd, would +1 again.
Lady-J, I love that you're an active community member (and you do have good advice with things like feat builds, various strategies, and roleplay advice), but I do wish you'd take into consideration that your table plays a very different version of Pathfinder when it comes to giving advice based on *numbers*. I don't doubt your table has a great time. Every time I try to jump in to give an OP perspective on your posts, I always try to make that clear. But... well, the community shouldn't have to constantly jump all over your posts, y'know?
20 AC isn't unreasonable per say for CR 1 opponents, but it's definitely shouldn't be the norm. A GM need to exercise caution when stepping outside of the range of what is typical, but there's nothing intrinsically wrong with a hard-to-hit enemy.
The most common source of high AC opponents at low levels are NPC's, which can have very high AC with equipment alone. A suit of scale mail is +5 AC and a heavy wooden shield is +2; mundane equipment, but that takes the NPC to 17 AC before considering dexterity, feats, or class features. (Monks got mentioned, but Monks rely on high stats to be good and NPC's have garbage for stats). In an NPC-heavy combat environment it's inevitable (barring the GM actively "de-optimizing" the AC of the foes) that you will fight something with a high AC. However, on the flipside armor and shield telegraph this information nicely to the player. Even with a short and succinct description it's very easy to convey to your players "this guy has high AC". This helps PC's adjust their tactics accordingly, so I'm personally of the view this is just something that should be embraced as part of the game and "how do I deal with high AC foes?" is on the 1st level checklist, just like invisibility and flight at higher levels.
As for how you deal with it: flank them, get buffs/debuffs from the casters, touch attacks (acid flasks and alchemist fire are a bit pricey but are a very nice catch-all early in your career), combat maneuvers, or bolster your own AC and win the slug-fest that way.
This doesn't sound like a magus problem. I guess try to focus on teamwork.
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Not uncommon that you run into low level NPCs/monsters in a chain shirt or breastplate at level 1.If your opponent is wearing metal armor, you get a +3 to hit if you're using shocking grasp with spellstrike.This is hugely relevant, but the OP appears to still be level 1, so it's more a promise for the future than something that will help immediately.
Yeah, but you don't get spellstrike til level 2.
that monk was actually with 3d6 for the rolls rolled in front of the gm and got 18,18,14,11,10,10with a monk 20 ac at level one isn't that hardLady-J, Seriously. Comments like these aren't helpful. It's VERY HARD for a monk to get AC 20 at lv one WHILE also being a playable character via other stats on a 20 pt buy.
On your super stat rolls sure, a monk will naturally just have tons of stats for tons of AC and still be great at everything.
But for most tables your "benchmarks" are completely off base and not helpful.
Like pretend someone was giving you advice that you should have at least at +50 to attack at lv1 and that no character should wear armor. Would that be useful advice for you? If you ask how they tell you that their table plays where everyone's stats are 100 at lv1. So does that advice really help you that you need to start with at least a +50 to hit and should never wear armor, when your table doesn't play with the stats that he's using?
** spoiler omitted **
That still equates to a 40 pt buy right there, twice as much as normal. And like _Ozy_ said, the odds of that roll happening aren't the best, so using 1 improbable outcome to support your stance isn't any better than your normal view.
Like your scenario is the similar to "Winning the lotto is pretty easy. All I did was go to the store right after work on Thursday and bought a lotto ticket and I won."
there are several races that grant +2 to ac so while i did roll 2 18s and got 20 that way its possible for an 18 and a 14 or 2 16s to also net a 20 ac at level one, fighters can also get 20 ac or higher at level one with little to no issue, as can barbarians, rangers, and many other classes the point of the statement was that 20ac is actually pretty easy to achieve at level one and with the right race and class combo you can probably even get up to 26 ac with little effort at level 1
Do you know that most races that get +2 natural armor are also considered monstrous races and that most of those are also not allowed in most table as playable races?
Did you know that most tables enforce some sort of wealth per level capping the amount of AC you can start off with?
So if you want to claim "you can probably even get up to 26 ac with little effort at level 1" please show us how a lv1 PC on a 20 pt buy, with starting wealth and a core race, no templates, no self crafting of gear achieves 26 AC and has a stat spread that makes for playable character. Because anything much outside this setup isn't typical.
True, OP did say this was PFS which uses a 20-point buy for ability scores and montrous races require boons and are therefore exceedingly rare.
You can also fight a white dragon @1st in part2 of a 3parter. Comes out of nowhere if you open that last door despite having just completed your mission. Bonus points in that not doing so loses you 1 prestige!
Yep, there's a lot of good advice floating around here. It's mainly dependant on your group composition and strategy that affect how to deal with high AC enemies, but there's some things that can help.
Often, an enemy's AC will be much higher than their CMD. Targeting the CMD of the enemy will let you inflict a penalty enough so that your allies have a chance of hitting reliably.
Since it's doubtful anyone has the improved feat for a combat maneuver at this level, you'll likely want your highest AC character to provoke an attack of opportunity from the enemy first. An optional strategy to help make this safer is to have the group's AC character use total defense as a standard action before moving through the enemy's threatened area. This works best if they're not yet positioned to get a flanking bonus. Using total defense, they won't get attacks of opportunity, but there's nothing in the rules saying they don't still threaten their surrounding squares, and thus still provide a flanking bonus.
Next, determine where their AC is coming from. Ask the DM if they're wearing heavy armor. Ask if they're wielding a shield.
If most of their AC is coming from equipment, go for a trip unless they've got more than two legs. If you succeed, they'll lose 4 AC for being prone and also provoke an attack of opportunity if they stand. Remember that a flanking bonus for the character performing the combat maneuver adds +2 to their CMB. As a magus, if you true strike spell combat trip maneuver, you can reliably trip pretty much anything in the book.
If the enemy's got four or more legs, or is likely getting a lot of their AC from Dex, go for a dirty trick maneuver to blind them. They'll take a -2 to AC on top of losing whatever Dex bonus they're getting as well. Downside is they'll recover in one round or so, but if they spend their move action to clear the blindness at least they can't full attack, and typically creatures with multiple legs have more than one attack per round.
while not ideal 16,14,14,12,12,7
halfling +1ac +2dex+2 cha-2 str
fighter 1
depending on how they rule with starting wealth if average the 1st trait will be needed if max the 1st trait less needed
traits rich parent(+900gold), defender of society(+1ac in medium or heavy armor)gear brestplate +7ac, heavy steal shield +2 ac, longsword and other starting gear
while less than ideal in this combo dodge,shield focus(or armor focus) would net another +2 ac
recap +3 dex,+7 armor, +1 size, +3 shield, +1 dodge for 25 ac so while restricted to core only 26 doesn't seem possible but if allowed teifling with halfling heritage could get 26 with their +1 natural armor and the process gets easier the more variety of races are allowed and would allow for slightly more optimal feat selection at level 1
Starting gold is 150gp, and rich parents is not legal. Tieflings require a boon from a convention to play.
Starting gold is 150gp, and rich parents is not legal. Tieflings require a boon from a convention to play.while not ideal 16,14,14,12,12,7
halfling +1ac +2dex+2 cha-2 str
fighter 1
depending on how they rule with starting wealth if average the 1st trait will be needed if max the 1st trait less needed
traits rich parent(+900gold), defender of society(+1ac in medium or heavy armor)gear brestplate +7ac, heavy steal shield +2 ac, longsword and other starting gear
while less than ideal in this combo dodge,shield focus(or armor focus) would net another +2 ac
recap +3 dex,+7 armor, +1 size, +3 shield, +1 dodge for 25 ac so while restricted to core only 26 doesn't seem possible but if allowed teifling with halfling heritage could get 26 with their +1 natural armor and the process gets easier the more variety of races are allowed and would allow for slightly more optimal feat selection at level 1
please show us how a lv1 PC on a 20 pt buy, with starting wealth and a core race, no templates, no self crafting of gear achieves 26 AC and has a stat spread that makes for playable character.these were the rules put forth no more no less so the character made is completely legal by the parameters set forth
True enough, but not playable in PFS, which is what the OP is playing.
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that monk was actually with 3d6 for the rolls rolled in fornt of the gm and got 18,18,14,11,10,10
Just as an etiquette matter, however, when someone is making a PFS specific query (the OP begins with "Having started Pathfinder Society...") then suggesting things that are not possible within the boundaries of PFS is not helpful.
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while not ideal 16,14,14,12,12,7
halfling +1ac +2dex+2 cha-2 str
fighter 1
depending on how they rule with starting wealth if average the 1st trait will be needed if max the 1st trait less needed
traits rich parent(+900gold), defender of society(+1ac in medium or heavy armor)gear brestplate +7ac, heavy steal shield +2 ac, longsword and other starting gear
while less than ideal in this combo dodge,shield focus(or armor focus) would net another +2 ac
recap +3 dex,+7 armor, +1 size, +3 shield, +1 dodge for 25 ac so while restricted to core only 26 doesn't seem possible but if allowed teifling with halfling heritage could get 26 with their +1 natural armor and the process gets easier the more variety of races are allowed and would allow for slightly more optimal feat selection at level 1
So the answer is, you can't hit 26 by those rules, even chosing only options specifically geared towards boosting AC.
So I don't think it's fair to say that it takes "little effort" to have 26 AC at level 1 as you did earlier.
Also, 14 strength on a fighter is very much not a good character.