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I need a PFS answer to this please lol There's so many people on either side. A build relies on an answer. Thanks!!
Prehensile Tail: A vanara has a long, flexible tail that she can use to carry objects. She cannot wield weapons with her tail, but the tail allows her to retrieve a small, stowed object carried on her person as a swift action
if im dual wielding light crossbows, and have like 7 attacks a round, i need to be able to reload repeatedly
if i have rapid reload, which makes the reload move actions, would you think the tail could pull 2 levers as 2 moves and swift drop a bolt or bolts into them, OR hold 1 4lb crossbow to free a hand to reload with a bab of 1
and when i have crossbow mastery, reloading is a free action, do you think that by that level and practice with both feats i can freely reload the crossbows in order to get my multiple attacks in? im trying to find a way to make dual crossbows playable, and i think the tail would assist in that. thoughts?
id rather not dip into alchemist or such.
without some way to reload the crossbows in one turn theres no way i could ever use a full attack
"And repeating crossbow isn't an option?"
you still have to pull back to shoot it regardless
As long as it holds bolts, you can reload it by pulling the
reloading lever (a free action).
so unless people agree a tail can pull the lever, theres no way to full attack with 2 crossbows to their full potential, (without crazy gear or magic)
at level 11 i can have like 6 or 7 attacks.
4 on main hand and 2-3 on offhand
(lesser degree multi attacks at lower levels but this is the extreme scenario)
so if reloading is a free action by then, how would you go about reloading 6-7 times in 1 round during a full attack if not by a tail?
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I don't currently have the time to delve into researching this, but off the top of my head.
Gloves of Storing 10k Store/retrieve an item as a free action.
Reloading hands 2nd level spell, Duration Rounds per level, 1/round reload ammunition.
Endless Ammunition Weapon Enchantment +2.
The tail: YMMV. Some GMs may allow it and some may say no.
Prehensile Tail: A vanara has a long, flexible tail that she can use to carry objects. She cannot wield weapons with her tail, but the tail allows her to retrieve a small, stowed object carried on her person as a swift action
...would you think the tail could pull 2 levers as 2 moves and swift drop a bolt or bolts into them, OR hold 1 4lb crossbow to free a hand to reload with a bab of 1
No. The prehensile tail does exactly what its description says and only that: as a swift action, it allows one to retrieve a small, stowed item. There may be some table variation in what falls into the category of small, stowed object and there may be some table variation in how long that retrieved item can stay in the tail before it's transferred to a hand. But I doubt you'll find many (if any) GMs that would let a character hold a crossbow in that tail, much less use said tail to reload a crossbow.
This is a general rules question and will probably be punted over to there.
I'm not seeing a reason for the variation
Prehensile Tail: A vanara has a long, flexible tail that she can use to carry objects. She cannot wield weapons with her tail, but the tail allows her to retrieve a small, stowed object carried on her person as a swift action
You can carry an object. You carry the crossbow for a second and reload it. It's probably not a "small object" you can draw as a swift action, but i can't see not being able to hold it.
A small crossbow is a move action to reload normally. Rapid reload makes it a free action. So your tail just holds your crossbow for a second. A similar item (monkey tail belt)
The prehensile tail does exactly what its description says and only that: as a swift action, it allows one to retrieve a small, stowed item.
It also holds items.
It also holds items.
I have a tiefling with a prehensile tail. I've had GMs tell me that part of the tail's description is only flavor text. Rather than argue, I simply ask the GM at the beginning of a scenario what they'll allow me to do with the tail. I tell them what I'd like to do with it and let then rule ahead of time. Bottom line? Expect table variation.
It also holds items.I have a tiefling with a prehensile tail. I've had GMs tell me that part of the tail's description is only flavor text. Rather than argue, I simply ask the GM at the beginning of a scenario what they'll allow me to do with the tail. I tell them what I'd like to do with it and let then rule ahead of time. Bottom line? Expect table variation.
That is absolute horsefeathers, and grounds for walking. The tail can pick a wallet out of my pocket, but can't hold a crossbow against my side for a second because... ?
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That is absolute horsefeathers, and grounds for walking. The tail can pick a wallet out of my pocket, but can't hold a crossbow against my side for a second because... ?
There's a considerable weight difference between a wallet and a crossbow.
But I'm not arguing that point; I'm advising the OP that any build that requires any rule be interpreted in a specific, consistent and favorable way — when he knows said rule may be subject to table variation — is probably not a viable build in organized play.
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That being said, I am one of those GMs that does not allow the tail to do anything other than retrieve a stowed item as a swift action. I don't allow the tail to hold items.
Why? I look to the Tiefling and its Prehensile Tail for guidance. They're verbatim the same ability. But if you then look at the feat Grasping Tail, you see where the problem lies:
If you have the prehensile tail racial trait, you can use your tail to grab unattended items within 5 feet as a swift action as well as to grab stowed objects carried on your person; you can hold such objects with your tail, though you cannot manipulate them with your tail (other than to put them in your hand).
Without this feat, your tail can never actually "hold" items. All the tail does is speed up retrieval of stowed items, akin to a spring-loaded wrist sheath. And since Vanaras cannot take this feat (prerequisite: Tiefling), they're stuck with just that.
I have to say that I take issue with the statement that GMs disallowing a prehensile tail to do more is "grounds for walking". I think such a ruling is perfectly reasonable. Treating the tail as anything more, without a feat investment, is unbalancing, IMO.
I have to say that I take issue with the statement that GMs disallowing a prehensile tail to do more is "grounds for walking". I think such a ruling is perfectly reasonable.
Its perfectly reasonable to say -I'm sorry, your character doesn't work, you've picked a race and burned a two feats and the " long, flexible tail that she can use to carry objects." cannot actually be used to carry objects?-
Grasping tail (i have a disam happy tiefling with it) lets you grab things as a swift action. That's the big draw, not holding things.
It's one thing to do that in a home game where you can work out that exact ruling and build around it, its another thing to blindside players wandering around at random who build their characters in good faith and try to use a fun option.
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Reloading hands 2nd level spell, Duration Rounds per level, 1/round reload ammunition.
Endless Ammunition Weapon Enchantment +2
those just help get ammo in the crossbow, but alas, do not actually "pull back" and rearm them.
the gloves are an option, but at 10k thats a long way to making things viable.
You're looking for the Crossbow Mastery Feat from the APG.
You can load crossbows with blinding speed and even fire them in melee with little fear of reprisal.
Prerequisites: Dex 15, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot.
Benefit: The time required for you to reload any type of crossbow is reduced to a free action, regardless of the type of crossbow used. You can fire a crossbow as many times in a full attack action as you could attack if you were using a bow. Reloading a crossbow for the type of crossbow you chose when you took Rapid Reload no longer provokes attacks of opportunity.
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it was worth a shot. a cool idea. i'll just use my vanara for a throwing build haha bag of holding +1000 daggers with swift retrieval hahaha
Change Size (Su)
: One vanara in every 500 is gifted with
limited shapeshifting ability. Such a creature can adjust
her size at will. She gains the change shape ability and the
shapeshifter subtype. Instead of changing appearance,
she can use change shape to reduce her size category to
Small. Her ability scores don’t change, only her size (and
thus her weapon damage); normal size penalties and
bonuses to AC and CMD and on attack and skill rolls
apply. Changing size or returning to her true size is a full-
round action. This racial trait alters the vanara’s type and
replaces nimble.
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my best argument was that if i used small crossbows that if it can retrieve small objects, it would be able to hold a small crossbow(object)lol it wouldnt be "wielding it", as it wouldnt be attacking while holding it. however it can only do a swift action once per round, so its still not quite viable for multiattacks.
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main, off, swift hold, reload both free, main, free, main, free, main, free, drop with weapon cord, grab off, off, free, off free, turn. next round shoot offhand, free reload, move to grab crossbow on cord, swift to hold offhand, reload main free, turn. lol repeat. PITA to explain all the actions, but thats the only way i would be able to full attack
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Prehensile Tail: A vanara has a long, flexible tail that she can use to carry objects. She cannot wield weapons with her tail, but the tail allows her to retrieve a small, stowed object carried on her person as a swift action
Please see the bolded text. The tail clearly can be used to carry objects, but I'm not sure it's intended to allow reloading of crossbows.
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Please see the bolded text. The tail clearly can be used to carry objects, but I'm not sure it's intended to allow reloading of crossbows.
Prehensile Tail: A vanara has a long, flexible tail that she can use to carry objects. She cannot wield weapons with her tail, but the tail allows her to retrieve a small, stowed object carried on her person as a swift action
If assuming it can hold a small object, if it holds the crossbow, it's the empty hand doing the reloading
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If assuming it can hold a small object, if it holds the crossbow, it's the empty hand doing the reloadingPlease see the bolded text. The tail clearly can be used to carry objects, but I'm not sure it's intended to allow reloading of crossbows.
Prehensile Tail: A vanara has a long, flexible tail that she can use to carry objects. She cannot wield weapons with her tail, but the tail allows her to retrieve a small, stowed object carried on her person as a swift action
The text could be interpreted as the tail can hold objects, but can ALSO retrieve small stored items. Idk like stated some gms may rule it a no. I may inquire this to my VC
it's reasonable to assume you must be wielding the crossbow to reload it, and the tail can't wield it. So that's a line of thought saying no.
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If I'm understanding the sequence correctly, the tail is holding one of the crossbows. The now free hand is loading the other crossbow. So the tail is not holding/wielding a crossbow that is being reloaded. It's just freeing up a hand.
As for my question about the tail holding a Metamagic rod, it's not a vital part of my build, so it's not going to impact whether I make the character or not. I'll ask around with the local GMs, and I'll mention this thread. I'm trying to avoid a typical Magus magical lineage build, but being able to have a Metamagic Rod I could use with spell combat would let me intensify when I really need it.
@Chess Pwn That's not how you do it. Ferious Thrune nailed it perfectly. The tail holds the crossbow you're not currently reloading as you reload the other one.
While that does work, that was not the sequence that others above were stating.