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Wolf or Serpent Shaman for Mystic Theurge


Aloha all!

I have a simple question: I am going to play a druid/diviner/mt and I want to pick one of those two archetypes but dont really know which one suits better. The character is an elven sage calling himself "The Moon".

Wolf Shaman:
Liberation or Travel domain. Both great but the totemic transformation stuff isnt spectacular. I love travel for the increased speed but on the other hand it doesnt give much that I couldnt get via arcane casting. Also longstrider wouldnt stack with the increased base speed from the transformation. Liberation offers some sweet spells I couldnt access otherwise but as we have a cleric anyway those wouldnt be too much of a miss. The domain power is pretty sweet though.

Serpent Shaman:
This archetype would offer somewhat better options for totemic transformation - namely increased natural armor or swim/climb speed. Also I'd have access to the trickery domain. I wont be able to use early entry to MT anyway but the domain isnt that bad at all. stealth would be a nice addition to my class skills and creating a mirror image as move action is good as well. Same for the deception subdomain which gives a more or less useful teleport as immediate action.

Do you have any ideas which combination of archetype and domain might be favorable? Im looking forward to receive some advice. In case it matters: I can only access CRB, APG and ACG.

Thanks in advance!

Wasum :)

Noone? :/

There are typically character traits that can make a skill a class skill for your character if that helps narrow down which one you'll choose.

My choice, Wolf Shaman.
- Your character calls himself "The Moon" which is much closer thematically to the Wolf
- The totem transformations aren't that bad with +20 to land speed or the free Trip with the bite attack. If you must have a Swim or Climb speed you always have Wildshape
- Freedom is a pretty awesome domain as well and, like you said, Travel doesn't give much that you cant do with arcane casting

The thing is:I do not get wildshape, I won't be able to use the trip attack (7 Str) and the Base speed increase of the transformation doesn't stack with Longstrider...

Regarding Liberation I do not like the domainspells as we already have a cleric anyways.

Is Travel still the better domain?

Well the totem transformation gives more speed than Longstrider does and you can break up it's use. I would use that spell slot for something else. That low STR will definitely make the natural attacks less effective but you also have the Senses transformation which grants you Scent. You still get Wildshape though... not sure where you're getting that.

Liberation vs Travel
1st level: Freedom of Movement against magical effects vs ignore difficult terrain
... tough call but I vote Liberation is better

8th level: Freedom's Call- 30ft aura; cannot be grappled, pinned, shaken, frightened, panicked, confused or paralyzed vs Dimensional Hop- teleport 10ft/level as a move action
... both very useful. Liberation helps your party the most and Travel helps you the most

Domain Spells:
Cleric stuff vs Teleport stuff
... again, party support vs personal support

Honestly you cant go wrong with either of these so if Travel gets your fancy then choose that one.

The OP is discussing a mystic theurge build, so wild shape and 8th level domain powers aren't very relevant.

The fun spells from the travel domain will be available on the wizard list, liberation gives a couple options that are not on thr wiz list. For an MT I would choose for variety, that being the main reason to go for this build in the first place.

But both of you would pick wolf (Liberation or Travel) over serpent (trickery)?

The Liberation domain spells are great because they are clerics spells but as we also have a cleric with condition cures from the community domain, so in this case I favor the spells of the trickery or travel domains.

All three have an amazing bag of tricks.

I vote trickery. Climb speed plus stealth plus mirror image = A great shaman concept that's quite unique.

Another consideration would be to use your domain to fill in the gap left by your opposition schools on the wiz side.

As I plan to ban enchantment, trickery would provide confusion - the very best offensive enchantment spell...

I tried to give weight to the different things both domains provide... but in the end it wasnt that enlightening.

Travel provides:
10 feet base movement (+++)
Ability to ignore difficut terrain (++)
Longstrider spell (+)
Fly spell (+)
Dimension Door spell (+)
Teleport spell (+)
A little speed boost from totemic transformation 3/day (+)

Adding up to 10 +

Trickery provides:
Stealth as class skill (+)
Toned down move action Mirror Image SLA (+)
Climb and Swim Speed from totemic transformation (+)
2 natural AC from totemic transformation (+)
Invisibility spell (+)
Confusion spell (++++)

Adding up to 9 +

So I'm still not sure which would be the better choice... I appreaciate some more answers, I have no idea why but this decision gives me a hard time!

Mystic Theurge is sadly considered a "trap" choice, due to how badly it sets back your spellcasting ability (and class abilities). The exception to this is if you have access to the Spellcasting Guild rules from Inner Sea Magic so that you can gain access to Esoteric and Eclectic Training.

Assuming that's *not* an option, however, most folks recommend the Ancient Lorekeeeper Oracle archetype, which allows you to pick up choice sorcerer/wizard spells, and you're already an elf, so you meet the race requirement.

The Lunar mystery seems to be the perfect fit for The Moon, giving you access to most of your druid goodies, including beast shape (form of the beast) and an animal companion (primal companion), as well as a whole host of moon-themed revelations.

I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find a curse that you'd like.

The framework of the respective game doesnt allow any character to have a highter CL than 3/4th of her HD. This makes the MT the best choice in my eyes.

okay - I guess I'll just pick travel! :D

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