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feats you think are seriously underrated


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

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I'm sure this question has come up before, but I haven't seen a version of it in a while, so: what are some feats you think are seriously underrated? For instance, ones that you don't see all that much, but you think most characters should seriously consider?

I'll start: Rhino Charge.

Rhino Charge (Combat) wrote:

Your charges are both violent and unpredictable.

Prerequisites: Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, base attack bonus +5.
Benefit: You may ready a charge, though you may only move up to your speed on the charge.
Normal: Charging is a full-round action and allows you to move twice your speed.

Since readying an action remains a standard action, and since you can always set a readied action to trigger on some trivial condition (e.g. "anyone does anything" or "my turn ends"), this feat could (and probably should) have just read: "You can charge as a standard action, provided that it's the last action you take on your turn and that you only move up to your speed."

This is well worth a feat for almost any melee character, but it's amazing with pounce, since it lets you full attack (and move!) as a standard action. This is huge in late game, since there are lots of ways to get staggered with no saving throw, and probably uniquely Rhino Charge + pounce lets you handle this without losing most of your offense. Plus if you're a kitsune with Vulpine Pounce you can use Rhino Charge + the fast shifter alternate racial trait to effectively pounce as a regular full action (shifting as a move, charging as a standard), thereby getting around the swift action cost. And even characters without pounce get a lot of utility: you don't actually lose any distance (you can use your regular move action to get into position), you have a better ability to maneuver around obstructions when charging, and you can ready a charge to interrupt spellcasters the way ranged characters ready shots.


GMs shouldn't let you ready actions like "anyone does anything" or "your turn ends", but that is a secondary issue the diverges from the purposes of this thread.

Feats that are underrated are the feats that usually people think characters should already be able to do without needing the feat.

Such as Strike Back, where it allows you to strike the "limbs" of creature when they attack you with reach (as part of a readied action).


I really like Pushing Assault. Prereqs are pretty easy (Power Attack, 15 STR, BAB +1), and this lets you shut down anybody who tries to charge inside your threatened area as well as prevent people from 5' stepping inside of your reach without getting an AoO.

I agree that "readied actions" are the sort of thing that are ripe for abuse and I'd be nervous about "anything happens" as one, but "Bill yells 'GO!'" might be okay.


I really think Blind-Fight is sorely Underrated.

I typically play full casters but Have been playing (and enjoying) a brawler. I have used Martial Flexibility to pick up Blind-fight and it has been great. I have landed more attacks thanks to the feat. The class really got me thinking about a Hunter that uses Fogs and a companion that has scent and Blind-fight. Using Fogs to gain Mischance (an extra layer of defense) and to cripple my enemies at the same time. Might make it a BBEG for a homebrew I am trying to write.


Claxon wrote:

Feats that are underrated are the feats that usually people think characters should already be able to do without needing the feat.

Such as Strike Back, where it allows you to strike the "limbs" of creature when they attack you with reach (as part of a readied action).

Sure, but afaict that particular feat is terrible. Super situational, and a BAB +11 prereq? At that level, even if you can't full attack there've got to be way better uses for a standard action than hanging around and waiting for something with reach to attack you, then taking a single regular swipe.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

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I'm fond of Combat Patrol, which doesn't seem to get much love. Sure, you give up your regular attacks but if you want to make a "tank" the ability to threaten out to 20 feet with a reach weapon and move as part of your AoOs is pretty solid. It's a very reactive way to play but you can often cover an entire room indoors.


yeah... with BAB +11 as a prerequisite, Strike back should be able to be done as an immediate action, or even as an AoO that is limited to only once per round.


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I'd like to nominate Cut from the Air as a feat that people tend to overlook. This feat, when built around, allows a fighter to completely ignore a ranged Full Attack.

I built a half-elven fighter, at level 6 with 16 Dexterity and Combat Reflexes you can effectively try to outroll a full attack from an Archer with Rapid Shot and Many shot, a Flurry of Shurken's Monk, or a TWF throwing character. This serves as an additional type of defense, which the Fighter tends to lack in comparison to the Barbarian (Who gains DR).

Honestly some of my favorite feats that I see people dismiss. As a melee fighter, I am always looking for ways to stop getting my face shot in from a distance.


Three feats I've enjoyed are Punishing Kick, Noble Scion, and True Breed.

Punishing Kick maybe a little more restrictive with the Prereqs but should be considered if you're using reach weapons or are trip fishing. 1 level of Hungry Ghost Monk gets you everything you need. If they fail the save, they are knocked prone, which severely restricts their mobility. Or for reach weapon users kick anyone inside your threat range back into range with no save to stop it.

Noble Scion needs to be taken at 1st but gives a variety of options, most notably the Scion of War which lets you use CHA for initiative instead of DEX. Bloodragers, Dragon Disciples and other melee CHA casters should love this. Scaled Fist Monks use CHA instead of Wisdom for everything else, why not add initiative? Heck even regular CHA casters likely have DEX lower than their primary casting stat.

True Breed also needs to be taken @ 1st and only by half-orcs and half-elves. It's very situational and some would argue that it nullifies one of the advantages of playing those races. However, Human is the most common favored enemy evev for enemies in PFS scenarios, and denying a ranger their FEB and seeing their faces is it's own reward.

I also agree that Blind-Fight is incredibly helpful. My Fighter/Brawler uses Martial flexability when in darkness or blinded. My Dragon Disciple picked it up as a bloodline feat the same level he got Blindsense and wished he had it sooner. Invisible enemies are common enough but greater invis is a major pain that is reduced with this feat.

Oh, one last one is Combat Reflexes. Almost no one seems to have it so it is always a big deal when an enemy actually uses it or an ally drops a mook before it's even his turn.


ryric wrote:
I'm fond of Combat Patrol, which doesn't seem to get much love. Sure, you give up your regular attacks but if you want to make a "tank" the ability to threaten out to 20 feet with a reach weapon and move as part of your AoOs is pretty solid. It's a very reactive way to play but you can often cover an entire room indoors.

It's even sillier if you combine it with some of the reach shenanigans that are out there, like a Aberration Bloodline Bloodrager with Enlarge Person, Longarm and a Reach Weapon.


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Step-Up - It's situational, but really effective.


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ShroudedInLight wrote:
I'd like to nominate Cut from the Air as a feat that people tend to overlook. This feat, when built around, allows a fighter to completely ignore a ranged Full Attack.

I highly, highly recommend this feat (and also Smash from the Air) for any martial in a mythic campaign in which you take Mythic Combat Reflexes. Being able to knock an entire army's worth of arrows out of the air (like that scene in Hero) is like near the height of how you can feel really awesome as a mythic character.


It's not PFS legal, but with Racial Heritage (duergar) and Gray Dwarf Magic you can get invisibility or ironskin as an SLA at first level. That's handy in the right circumstances.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

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Jodokai wrote:
Step-Up - It's situational, but really effective.

Step Up is worth it entirely for the look on the GM/player's face when their archer or spellcaster tries to 5 foot step away to shoot/cast.


Step up is one I use on my martial master often.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

It isn't terribly optimal, but Cosmopolitan is one of those feats that I really appreciate. As a PFS player and summoner apologist, the instant 2 languages really help to fill in the gaps. And for any class with some glaring holes in your skill list, this is flexible enough to fill in whatever you need.

Plus, the design has a certain charm to it. Traits are said to function as half of a feat (like Reactionary's +2 versus Improved Initiative's +4) but this is one of the few feats that feels like two traits added together.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I've found that, while usually situational, Swap Places with Tactician or a similar party-share ability can be very useful in tight-quarters combat.

This could be just the way I view it, but I find just about anything that causes an opponent's "normal tactics" to go out the window to be enjoyable yet underrated. It's easy to get into tunnel vision of, "I walk up and hit it," which gets pretty boring and one-dimensional after four or five levels. Things like Step Up, Combat Patrol, or Swap Places can spice things up a bit.

Silver Crusade

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I think Toughness is under-rated, particularly on squishy casters; hit points never go out of style. Most people seem to consider it boring, but I don't find being conscious, and able to take actions, to be boring at all.


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Follow up to toughness. I think cunning (villan codex) is under rated. I can easily make a 6 skill point per level warpriest now 14 int + cunning + human/half orc. Which makes a great class much better.


PCScipio wrote:
I think Toughness is under-rated, particularly on squishy casters; hit points never go out of style. Most people seem to consider it boring, but I don't find being conscious, and able to take actions, to be boring at all.

Agreed. And, till it was stealth-changed, Tribal Scars was good for that too. A good way to survive the first few levels.


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ShroudedInLight wrote:

I'd like to nominate Cut from the Air as a feat that people tend to overlook. This feat, when built around, allows a fighter to completely ignore a ranged Full Attack.

I built a half-elven fighter, at level 6 with 16 Dexterity and Combat Reflexes you can effectively try to outroll a full attack from an Archer with Rapid Shot and Many shot, a Flurry of Shurken's Monk, or a TWF throwing character. This serves as an additional type of defense, which the Fighter tends to lack in comparison to the Barbarian (Who gains DR).

Honestly some of my favorite feats that I see people dismiss. As a melee fighter, I am always looking for ways to stop getting my face shot in from a distance.

I love this feat. Period. Our Fighter from RoW had it and it saved our lives a few times.

She also used this feat while I used an Antimagic Field from a scroll to render Rasputin Useless. Anything that makes Rasputin useless has my consideration xD


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Grandlounge wrote:

Follow up to toughness. I think cunning (villan codex) is under rated. I can easily make a 6 skill point per level warpriest now 14 int + cunning + human/half orc. Which makes a great class much better.

Follow up to your follow up, Spirit Ridden is really great at higher levels because you get a free versatile class skill and ranks equal to your HD in it each day,

Also Orator is awesome; I don't care what anyone says but effectively 3 Skill Focuses for the price of 1 (2?), plus 3 Ranks each level for the price of 1. It doesn't get much more efficient for you Skill Monkey's out there... Unless you use the Human's Focused Study.

Liberty's Edge

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I really like Breadth of Experience both for the functionality and for the role-play value. "That reminds me of the time I was a Pirate.." "When I worked as a barmaid, we could always pick out the creeps." "Technology? Hah! I was smuggling tech out of Numeria before you were a gleam in your pappy's eye!"


keerawa wrote:
I really like Breadth of Experience both for the functionality and for the role-play value. "That reminds me of the time I was a Pirate.." "When I worked as a barmaid, we could always pick out the creeps." "Technology? Hah! I was smuggling tech out of Numeria before you were a gleam in your pappy's eye!"

why doesnt that feat apply to other races that can get 100+ or even 1000+ years?


also why is this in advice and not general discussion?

Liberty's Edge

I really like the teamwork feat Escape Route. Of course, you have to convince your party to pick it up, too, but there ARE ways around that. Inquisitors, animal companion mounts, and familiars with the Valet archetype can give you an automatic safe route in and out of combat.


keerawa wrote:
I really like the teamwork feat Escape Route. Of course, you have to convince your party to pick it up, too, but there ARE ways around that. Inquisitors, animal companion mounts, and familiars with the Valet archetype can give you an automatic safe route in and out of combat.

really wish that feat also had squares you threaten included in it would work really good for one of my builds


ShroudedInLight wrote:

I'd like to nominate Cut from the Air as a feat that people tend to overlook. This feat, when built around, allows a fighter to completely ignore a ranged Full Attack.

I built a half-elven fighter, at level 6 with 16 Dexterity and Combat Reflexes you can effectively try to outroll a full attack from an Archer with Rapid Shot and Many shot, a Flurry of Shurken's Monk, or a TWF throwing character. This serves as an additional type of defense, which the Fighter tends to lack in comparison to the Barbarian (Who gains DR).

Honestly some of my favorite feats that I see people dismiss. As a melee fighter, I am always looking for ways to stop getting my face shot in from a distance.

I'm getting Cut and Smash from the Air in my vigilante Vital Strike build (yay martial focus) as an additional thing she can do. Of course she's more STR focused but a +2 dex, before items still means 3 AOOs she can use to either AOO or slice arrows out of the air.


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Diehard.

Especially with Pathfinder Society 1st level, this feat will likely double your effective hit point pool before you are out of action. It's an easy entry for half-orcs with the mystic racial subtype granting them free Endurance.

It also acts as a prerequisite for a bunch of other stuff too. For example, the Tenacious Survivor feat gives you a free Raise Dead from as early as 3rd level so long as your allies catch you with a heal within a couple of rounds of your death.


JDLPF wrote:

Diehard.

Especially with Pathfinder Society 1st level, this feat will likely double your effective hit point pool before you are out of action. It's an easy entry for half-orcs with the mystic racial subtype granting them free Endurance.

It also acts as a prerequisite for a bunch of other stuff too. For example, the Tenacious Survivor feat gives you a free Raise Dead from as early as 3rd level so long as your allies catch you with a heal within a couple of rounds of your death.

It's a double edged sword. It'll keep you up but increases the chances of you being killed vs ko'd. So I'm unsure that it's underrated, instead being variable in value depending how the Dm treats 'mostly dead' people that keep standing.

There are traits that buff this feat that are important to remember: Boar Resilience lets a boar skinwalker skip the endurance requirement.
Never Stop Shooting lets you use wisdom instead of CON for neg hps.

PS: fast healer is an interesting feat that requires diehard. It can be a useful feat for the right build.


for Aasiamr's or those who can get to count as such AND have animal companion (mine was a lunar oracle.so the fev class bonus ALSO increased the animal revolution to count as higher levels) - Celestial Servant
this not only make him celestial so he get some nice stuff like dr,smite, sr and energy resistance but make him into a magical beast!!!
so from an animal with d8 HD and bab of 3/4 your Tanky animal turn to d10 HD and 4/4 bab. my GM said that animal companions don't really cut it at high levels. showed him!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Undersized Mount.

I certainly didn't buy Advanced Class Guide just for that one feat, there's also the... um... and then there's... fine, I bought it just so I can have a Cavalier riding a large pig.

That'll do pig. That'll do.


I want to say nimble moves but if a reach weapon character takes a 5 foot step back in difficult terrain you get one attack on your turn and likely an aoo from the attack and this has been around since core yet am suprised I have not seen it in play yet espicially since how it would work with combat reflexes.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

zza ni wrote:

for Aasiamr's or those who can get to count as such AND have animal companion (mine was a lunar oracle.so the fev class bonus ALSO increased the animal revolution to count as higher levels) - Celestial Servant

this not only make him celestial so he get some nice stuff like dr,smite, sr and energy resistance but make him into a magical beast!!!
so from an animal with d8 HD and bab of 3/4 your Tanky animal turn to d10 HD and 4/4 bab. my GM said that animal companions don't really cut it at high levels. showed him!

Sadly, not quite:

FAQ wrote:

Celestial Servant: Does this change my companion creature's HD, saves, skill ranks for changing its creature type?

No. All it does is change the creature's type to "magical beast" (which makes it immune to abilities from other creatures which only affect animals) and give it the abilities of the celestial creature simple template (which does not change anything other than what is exactly specified in the template).


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I hate feats like Strike Back and Rhino Charge, as they actively limit game options rather than expand them.

Take Strike Back for example: In previous editions of the game, before the feat's release, you could ready an action to strike limbs without the need for a feat. The feat is not a boon to those who take it, it's a bane to everyone.

Scarab Sages

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Canny Tumble

Your acrobatic prowess distracts your foes.

Prerequisite(s): Dodge, Mobility, Acrobatics 5 ranks.

Benefit: When you use Acrobatics to move through an opponent’s threatened area or space without provoking an attack of opportunity from that opponent, you gain a +2 circumstance bonus on your next melee attack roll against that opponent and that opponent is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC, as long as you make that attack before the start of your next turn.

I find many people just look over the Feat name and assume it deals with the Uncanny Dodge ability. I've been using it to great effect with a Slayer (Vanguard Archtype). In reality it's good with any character that can deal Sneak Attack damage.


I know that other posters and guides have loved feats and archetypes that granted familiars, but I never really got why until now. Previously, familiars spent most of their time in Familiar Space 95% of the time. I didn't see the appeal of an Alertness feat that could die and cost you money to replace.

A player has a magical child vigilante and her skunk has dramatically altered my plans once already with its scent ability and its spray has been a definite power-up for the party at second level. When she has a 4-in-1 familiar/improved familiars at 9th level, it will get interesting.

I also had some recent experience with a Tumor familiar based on a monkey. Using it to pass out potions and extracts during combats really has helped in the action economy.

So, they were seriously under-rated at my tables. But I see the value now.


captain yesterday wrote:

Undersized Mount.

I certainly didn't buy Advanced Class Guide just for that one feat, there's also the... um... and then there's... fine, I bought it just so I can have a Cavalier riding a large pig.

That'll do pig. That'll do.

LOL You want to know what is a supercool familiar/mount? Giant Flea!: It's got a leap/charge of 120'!!! Difficult terrain? hop over it while you charge! Even if you don't use it in combat, the ability to jump 120' at will is super sweet.


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Ravingdork wrote:

I hate feats like Strike Back and Rhino Charge, as they actively limit game options rather than expand them.

Take Strike Back for example: In previous editions of the game, before the feat's release, you could ready an action to strike limbs without the need for a feat. The feat is not a boon to those who take it, it's a bane to everyone.

That is not true. Some GM's allowed it as a houserule unknowingly, but by the rules of the game you have to be able to reach the square the creature occupies, even in 3.5.


Furious Focus, the Power Attack line, Furious Finish (especially when combined with the right wild shape).


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I like steadfast personality on Charisma casters since most important will saves are Mind effecting


Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
I like steadfast personality on Charisma casters since most important will saves are Mind effecting

Now they just have to make a steadfast stamina to get something similar for fart saves, then I can get everything to run off cha. ;)


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Fart saves are very important

But yeah when my sorc would have a will save of 30 it makes his arrogance a cockiness a bit more justifiable


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Stalwart and Greater stalwart!

When combined with the trait that gives a +1 to fighting defensively and crane style, you end up with DR 10/- that stacks with any DR from class features, so long as you fight defensively at a mere -2.

A Druid with this can turn into a Widow Creeper using wild shape, and end up with an effective DR 25/slashing and magic and if thst fails DR 10/-.

Or be an invelurable rager with DR 15/- at level 11.


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Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

Fart saves are very important

But yeah when my sorc would have a will save of 30 it makes his arrogance a cockiness a bit more justifiable

I laughed way too hard at this.


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The Sideromancer wrote:
Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

Fart saves are very important

But yeah when my sorc would have a will save of 30 it makes his arrogance a cockiness a bit more justifiable

I laughed way too hard at this.

Got to love auto-correct. :P


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Blind-Fight, Cosmopolitan, Cunning, Defensive Combat Training, Dodge, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Quick Draw, Run, Skill Focus, and Toughness. Also any feat that grants bonuses to skills like alertness, stealthy, etc.


Dragon78 wrote:
Blind-Fight, Cosmopolitan, Cunning, Defensive Combat Training, Dodge, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Quick Draw, Run, Skill Focus, and Toughness. Also any feat that grants bonuses to skills like alertness, stealthy, etc.

Im going to have to agree with the dragon. for the right character the right one of those can be a great boon.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

I love Branch Pounce for being really neat and stylish, and for codifying that, yes, anyone can charge as part of a fall.

Barbarian with Beast Totem line/Avenger Vigilante and potion of spider climbs says HELLO!


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Craig Logan 597 wrote:

Canny Tumble

Your acrobatic prowess distracts your foes.

Prerequisite(s): Dodge, Mobility, Acrobatics 5 ranks.

Benefit: When you use Acrobatics to move through an opponent’s threatened area or space without provoking an attack of opportunity from that opponent, you gain a +2 circumstance bonus on your next melee attack roll against that opponent and that opponent is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC, as long as you make that attack before the start of your next turn.

I find many people just look over the Feat name and assume it deals with the Uncanny Dodge ability. I've been using it to great effect with a Slayer (Vanguard Archtype). In reality it's good with any character that can deal Sneak Attack damage.

Quickrunner Shirt on a rogue with Whirlwind = nasty. Add in some lunge and LongArm for room destruction. It really is one of my favorite feats for rogues or maneuverable vital strikers.

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