King_Namazu |
So I happened upon the question of whether or not a specific magic weapon or armor could be given a higher enhancement bonus and so I opened up my CRB and I made an interesting discovery I hadn't known before. on Page 553 on the subject of magic item creation right at the end it says under Adding New Abilities "If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body, the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection +2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5". So does this mean? at a first glance this seems incredible but no real limits are given for what is possible other than perhaps the items must be of the same type, does this mean I could enhance a specific magic weapon?
Jeraa |
With GM permission, you can enhance any magic item. Even specific ones, like celestial armor. There are no rules saying you can't upgrade specific magic items, despite what some people claim.
The problem is, especially with some of the armor/weapons, it isn't clear how the price given was reached, so it isn't clear just how much an upgrade should cost.
For example, look at the lions shield. Costs 9,170 gp. 170gp of that for the masterwork shield. The remaining 9000gp covers the +2 enhancement and the ability to attack. +2 we know is 4000, so the ability to attack is 5000gp. Or is it? Because 9000gp is also the cost of a +3 equivalent shield, so the ability to attack could have been priced as a +1 equivalent enhancement. Therefor, a +3 version of the shield could cost 14,170 gp (if the attack cost 5000gp) or 16,170gp (if the attack ability is priced as a +1 enhancement).
Claxon |
Custom magic items are always something to be strictly vetted by the GM, and requires GM permission to make.
So yes, you can customize any item to do anything with GM permission.
As to whether some items should be permitted...well I'll leave the argument about rings of quickened true strike to others.
Oh, and remember that the formulas for determining cost are actually the second thing to be used. The first thing to determine cost is to look for something that does something similar, even if it's just a similar type of bonus.
King_Namazu |
I'm the GM currently but this is really interesting, the combinations seem pretty nuts and it's something I'll have to look into luckily we have no spellcasters at all or magic crafter in my group and they aren't veterans so they aren't too good at munchkining yet so I'm relatively safe from abuse for a while.
Claxon |
If you're new to GM a good guideline in case your players do decide to start crafting is that one crafting feat effectively enables a player to increase their WBL by 25%, and two crafting feats enable them to increase their effective WBL by 50%. More feats does not increase it beyond this.
Custom crafting is dangerous because WBL is like a separate power track similar to XP. Allowing too much leeway with crafting has caused many problems for a number of GMs.
Anguish |
I've closely monitored wealth by level and luckly I only have mundane crafters until one of them picks up master craftsman but I've let them know that if they veer too close to their cap the gold will trickle in slower but I've been good to give them just enough
I used to be of the opinion Claxon has expressed, but I have long since changed my mind.
There are a couple factors involved...
First, if a player invests in a feat, that feat should net them a benefit. In the case of Weapon Focus (whatever), the PC gains +1 to attacks with that weapon every single time they use it for the entire career of that PC. That is (sort of) half of a +1 enhancement bonus on that weapon. In the case of Power Attack, the PC is likely going to use it most of the time, and it's going to net them a lot of extra damage... or else the player wouldn't pick it. Some feats are "better" than others, but the point I'm making is that feats typically have long-term benefits. Craft Arms/Armor/Wondrous/Want/Whatever is a feat. It should have a long-term benefit. The benefit it offers is effectively an increase in character wealth. While that increase could be up to double wealth-by-level, it typically won't be anywhere near that. Not the least mitigating factor is that as you level up, crafting takes forever because of the 1,000gp per day rule. When you're getting 100,000gp+ new wealth per level, where are you coming up with 100 days to craft something? The universe needs saving. Get to work.
Second, wealth-by-level is a guideline. If you have an axe-using barbarian in the party and the adventure keeps handing out greatswords, they're going to get sold off at half-value. If the player chose a greatsword user, they wouldn't, and would be kept, for full value. DMs running pre-written adventures typically would have to explicitly adjust treasure frequently to account for this. Some parties might effectively keep 100% of what's handed out, some might keep 50%. Balance is more an art than a science.
Third, crafting can enable ability-width over ability-depth. When you've got Xgp, you might feel the need to spend it on the core magic items that boost ability scores and other derived numbers. Ahhh, cloak of resistance +3. If you've got 2x Xgp you might feel "safe" spending your crafting time making items that do things. There are a lot of items just in the Core Rulebook which are hard to justify over numbers-boosters items when you're low on cash. As you become more wealthy, it's easier to justify luxury items such as flying carpets. This allows a more interesting game, but depends on the mind-set of the players.
Fourth, there's the whole issue of crafting consumables. Potions, wands, scrolls. Those, you've got PCs literally burning their wealth to act, and usually to act in ways their characters already could if they weren't out of spell slots for the day, or similar. Often, PCs could just rest, and prepare different spells the following day. Regardless, consumables are a costly route to take. The barbarian gets to keep all their income because they just use a magic axe. The oracle who supplements her limited spells-known list with some scrolls because having access to remove blindness is IMPORTANT, but not worth taking up a spell-known... they burn wealth to do that. Sure, you can set up a party fund to handle paying for that, but you're still burning wealth even if it's spread over the party. Craft [Consumable] as a feat just halves the pain. And even then, consumables basically suck because they have crappy caster-levels and crappy DCs. If someone wants to invest in a feat to do this masochistic activity... burning wealth... even at half the rate... I'd say let them.
Anyway, by no means do I mean to say I'm right. It's just that some arguments can be made that crafting magic items aren't a big deal as long as you stick to the rules and apply a little common sense (no headband of true strike), without worrying about the impact on wealth-by-level. It's up to you to weigh the arguments.