Sniper Type firearm build.


Advice


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I've been looking at doing some sort of firearm build around basically making 1 bit attack. Maybe it won't kill things immediately but it will definitely do some damage.
We're using early firearms meaning for touch AC attacks its only first range increment meaning most attacks are at 30-40ft.

The main idea was to use an investigator. I know there's slayer, rogue, ect.. type archetypes called sniper but i'm not a huge fan of sneak attack especially with ranged weapons. Investigator has the advantage of studied combat effectively letting them get a to-hit that by the end basically has you on par with a fighter with their weapon training bonus (just without that 4th iterative) and their studied strike is like sneak attack, but you can only do it once, but the advantage is that it isn't conditional like sneak attack, nor negated by fortification.

I'm a bit stuck on whats the best way to build it.

Right now these are the options i'm looking at.

1. Steel Hound Investigator for 20 levels to maximize on studied strike. Using a musket. Using Kirin style with combat stamina to get Int on all my damage. Then either vital strike and/or Impressive Grit for dead shot int mod times per day.

2. Sleuth investigator and from 3, 5, or 7 levels of gunslinger (musket master). 3 is the minimum to get free action reloading for 2h firearms with academical cartridges, and might as well just so there's no downtime for reloading. 5th to get dex to damage, which seems really good as i'll be dex/int heavy meaning kirin style + this with stamina would have me adding int and dex to every attack. And finally 7th gets me dead shot for real, which is just a slightly better vital strike, but i'll have a grit and luck pool to pull from that i can regen rather than having daily limits on (though my wis/cha won't be super high even if i'm at the minimum its 2 points, and bare minimum impressive grit will let me get the equivalent of signature deed with it without needing to be gunslinger 11).

I'm a bit torn because the 2nd option loses me anywhere from 2d6, to 3d6, 4d6 dice. The bonus to hit isn't as big as you're getting full BAB levels.

Regardless in both it'll require ranged study so i'm not limited to a melee weapon for studied strike, but otherwise the big thing between builds is maximizing damage, and if dead shot is worth it.


I'd say go with 5 levels of gunslinger, this sounds like an awesome build by the way


Dox of the ParaDox twins wrote:
I'd say go with 5 levels of gunslinger, this sounds like an awesome build by the way

Question, would impressive grit be worthwhile then? Dead shot seems like an interesting skill because its basically vital strike with the ability to multiply the final damage. Then again without the crit its just vital strike with a full-round rather than standard.


Have you also considered Inquisitor? Taking the Black Powder Inquisition gets you all your weapon proficiencies for firearms, you're getting spells like Longshot, True Strike or Invisibility for sniping, Judgements to boost attack rolls and damage rolls, at later levels you add Bane to your gun, and there's a bunch of ranged Teamwork feats that synergize really well with Solo Tactics.


JDLPF wrote:
Have you also considered Inquisitor? Taking the Black Powder Inquisition gets you all your weapon proficiencies for firearms, you're getting spells like Longshot, True Strike or Invisibility for sniping, Judgements to boost attack rolls and damage rolls, at later levels you add Bane to your gun, and there's a bunch of ranged Teamwork feats that synergize really well with Solo Tactics.

I thought about that. The main issue is our DM doesn't let us go into fights pre-buffed much. So we never get alot of scenarios where longshot would help simply because those ranges would rarely come into play (alot of stuff takes place in short areas). Bare minimum for truke strike the far reaching sight is just as good (which its touch AC so even if i'm not in range its not a huge problem to hit for 75%+ of enemies).

Invisibility would be nice but it would be best for sneak attacking, which inquisitors don't get. Bane is nice, though technically if we know what we're after named bullet is a feat.

Inquisitor is nice, though inquisitor only would reach 4d6 with bane as opposed to 6d6 studied strike plus the at least +7 atk/dmg from studied combat assuming i do 15 levels investigator.

Variant multiclass magus could be an option because arcane pool + at 15th i could have the bane magus arcana to apply with arcane pool. Though the lvl 11 ability would be pointless, and i would be pretty feat starved.

It hurts the flavor of long range sniping a bit (especially if i don't have that scope) but i expect to be consistently uncomfortably close to everything just because of how things generally run.


Dead shot can hit the equivalent of Improved Vital Strike out of the gate with either Rapid Shot or haste at 7th level. If both apply, it's the equivalent of Greater Vital Strike. The odds of missing most targets within your first range increment is ... minute.

After 7th level is a toss-up. Inquisitor 5th brings that dial-a-bane ability online at 12th level as a swift action for 5 rounds' use per day. named bullets via spells stack and you're able to use a wand of named bullet at your first level of Inquisitor (unless you swapped out spell casting via archetype). About the same time it is possible your party Witch or Wizard has snagged the spell with your character in mind.

As an aside, scatter guns (blunderbuss and especially dragon pistols) have some malicious applications given what you're saying about encounter distances. They also give you an anti-swarm weapon.

Stern Gaze dovetails nicely with many gunslingers' propensity for the Intimidate skill.


Don't forget to add the Judgement bonuses to your damage calculations when comparing Inquisitor to Investigator.

Destruction and Justice Judgement adds +4 attack and +6 damage as a swift action at 15th level. Greater Bane adds an additional stacking +2 attack, +4d6+2 damage (extra +2 enhancement means +2 attack and damage). Neither suffer due to concealment either (but do cost 2 swift actions). Corset of Delicate Moves is your friend here.

A lesser Rod of Quicken can solve some of your action economy issues at higher level. The Wrath spell is also free Improved Critical on your weapon from 12th level. Burst of Speed or Raven's Flight get you distance from the enemy if your GM is starting combat uncomfortably close too.


Also, another thing:

Investigator wrote:

Studied Combat (Ex)

With a keen eye and calculating mind, an investigator can assess the mettle of his opponent to take advantage of gaps in talent and training. At 4th level, an investigator can use a move action to study a single enemy that he can see. Upon doing so, he adds 1/2 his investigator level as an insight bonus on melee attack rolls and as a bonus on damage rolls against the creature. This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1) or until he deals damage with a studied strike, whichever comes first. The bonus on damage rolls is precision damage, and is not multiplied on a critical hit.

Studied Strike (Ex)

At 4th level, an investigator can choose to make a studied strike against the target of his studied combat as a free action, upon successfully hitting his studied target with a melee attack, to deal additional damage. The damage is 1d6 at 4th level, and increases by 1d6 for every 2 levels thereafter (to a maximum of 9d6 at 20th level). The damage of studied strike is precision damage and is not multiplied on a critical hit; creatures that are immune to sneak attacks are also immune to studied strike.

Is there something I'm missing here that lets you use these on a ranged weapon?

Edit: Nevermind, Weapon Focus and Ranged Study Feats. Two feat investment though, pretty steep cost.


JDLPF wrote:

Also, another thing:

Is there something I'm missing here that lets you use these on a ranged weapon?

Edit: Nevermind, Weapon Focus and Ranged Study Feats. Two feat investment though, pretty steep cost.

I don't really consider Weapon Focus much of a cost though considering its a prerequisite for alot of things. That and having a decent to-hit will help if i'm outside of that first range increment.

The Mad Comrade wrote:

Dead shot can hit the equivalent of Improved Vital Strike out of the gate with either Rapid Shot or haste at 7th level. If both apply, it's the equivalent of Greater Vital Strike. The odds of missing most targets within your first range increment is ... minute.

After 7th level is a toss-up. Inquisitor 5th brings that dial-a-bane ability online at 12th level as a swift action for 5 rounds' use per day. named bullets via spells stack and you're able to use a wand of named bullet at your first level of Inquisitor (unless you swapped out spell casting via archetype). About the same time it is possible your party Witch or Wizard has snagged the spell with your character in mind.

As an aside, scatter guns (blunderbuss and especially dragon pistols) have some malicious applications given what you're saying about encounter distances. They also give you an anti-swarm weapon.

Stern Gaze dovetails nicely with many gunslingers' propensity for the Intimidate skill.

The problem with Dead shot is it doesn't work with rapid shot/haste. It says "but makes as many attack rolls as she can, based on her base attack bonus." And from what i could find it doesn't seem like it allows those feats to apply because its not a full round attack its simply a full-round action.


Rapid Shot and haste add extra attacks. Personal opinion is that is the entire point of such things. Is there an FAQ or something floating around by any chance?

Dark Archive

You could try a CHA based version:

1 - Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger) - CHA to damage based using Focused Aim deed, grit pool is CHA based.

2 - Swashbuckler (Musketeer) - Rapid Reload, gives back quick clear, doubles panache/grit pool based on CHA, gives finesse with a rapier as a backup melee weapon.

3 and onwards - Mesmerist - CHA based 6th level casting, distance debuffs, and a ranged sneak attack equivalent ability from Painful Stare.

Note that at 4th level of mesmerist (6th level build) you pick the Psychic Inception Bold Stare improvement so you painful stare will work on everyone (undead, people not flat footed, constructs, etc.). It gives you better action economy, doesn't cost inspiration dice which are limited in the day, and doesn't require the same restrictions as SA. As well if you are stuck casting a spell or clearing your gun anyone who hits the guy can get some of the damage from your stare.

If you go human your feats could look like:

1 - Point-Blank Shot
1R - Precise Shot
2C Rapid Reload
3 - Deadly-Aim
5 - ? (Retrain to Penetrating Stare at L9)
7 - ? (Retrain to Vital Strike at L8)
9 - Intense Pain Stare
11 - Improved Critical (Musket)
13 - Devastating Strike
15 - Improved Vital Strike
17 - ?
19 - ?

This leaves your swift for CHA to damage, standard for vital strike, and move to reload.

Beyond that you're limiting your damage by only having one attack. The strength of ranged weapons is using clustered shots with rapid shot/many shot (with a bow) to squeeze out 2 more attacks that can easily go through DR. The mesmerist now has stare feats to allow multiple triggers of the painful stare in the same round (great for archers).

Dark Archive

Also there is a trait (roving something?) to ad +5 to your range increments which is useful for guns. You could grab Magical Knack (Mesmerist) to give you full caster level for your mesmerist. Mesmerist also gets CHA to will saves so you can dump your WIS. Investigators are a lot of fun as well, but I feel like you require more investment feat wise to get INT to damage vs. one level dip in Gunslinger for CHA to damage (tied to your Grit pool).


Siege Gunner combines well with Investigator, via a one-level dip granting Int-based Grit, and also lets you bypass the Weapon Training requirement of Impressive Grit.

Maverick (Gunslinger) stacks with Mysterious Stranger and gives some interesting bonuses to Intimidate.


Is there any chance your GM would let you get the Inspired enchantment on your firearm? That would be a very big push to go that route, that enchantment is FANTASTIC.

Another idea will your GM let you mix in Eldritch Archer Magus? Musket Master 5/Eldritch Archer X would get you a good musket base and level/D6 damage spells tacked onto your bullets. Snowball bullets all day, every day.


Backlash3906 wrote:

Siege Gunner combines well with Investigator, via a one-level dip granting Int-based Grit, and also lets you bypass the Weapon Training requirement of Impressive Grit.

Maverick (Gunslinger) stacks with Mysterious Stranger and gives some interesting bonuses to Intimidate.

Siege Gunner would be nice but my main problems with it over musket master is that you lose the ability to achieve free action reloading with firearms (i guess its not a huge deal getting it down to a move action as the whole thing is around making 1 attack a round). But losing free rapid reload and losing the 4th level feat for what is basically a useless feat isn't great.

Torbyne wrote:

Is there any chance your GM would let you get the Inspired enchantment on your firearm? That would be a very big push to go that route, that enchantment is FANTASTIC.

Another idea will your GM let you mix in Eldritch Archer Magus? Musket Master 5/Eldritch Archer X would get you a good musket base and level/D6 damage spells tacked onto your bullets. Snowball bullets all day, every day.

Maybe? If not i'm not completely opposed to doing a hand crossbow build and changing this to bolt ace (as the DM is now starting to change his mind on firearms so the build might need to adjust).

Eldritch Archer magus could be fun. Though i wonder if spellslinger wouldn't be a bad idea to dip either. Not sure if the DM would let the arcane gun stack with ranged spellstrike (as both use the wording of "casing through the weapon"). You couldn't stack the attack roll bonus but possibly if the spell has both a save and an attack roll it could be a nice way to make it harder to save against.

Red Griffyn wrote:
Also there is a trait (roving something?) to ad +5 to your range increments which is useful for guns. You could grab Magical Knack (Mesmerist) to give you full caster level for your mesmerist. Mesmerist also gets CHA to will saves so you can dump your WIS. Investigators are a lot of fun as well, but I feel like you require more investment feat wise to get INT to damage vs. one level dip in Gunslinger for CHA to damage (tied to your Grit pool).

Mysterious stranger could be fun though if i wanted it to work without limit thats 11 levels in gunslinger. That and you lose gun training 1 and once again not going musket master removes the free rapid reload as well never allowing you to progress past a move action to reload a 2h firearm unless once again i stay in it for 11 levels to get lightning reload.

Kirin style is a bit of a feat investment but its definitely more long term due to the rank requirements it has; so unless i mix in master of many styles monk i won't be able to have that immediately.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Sniper Type firearm build. All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.