Caster Inquisitor how to?


Advice


Apparently you can make caster inquisitors and people like them? How does this work!

Is there like a Silksworn archetype for inquisitors or something? How do they not run out of spells, how do they make their DCs high enough?

Silver Crusade

?

Inquisitors have always been 6th level casters.

*scratches head*

Th only thing that comes to mind is the Living Grimoire Archetype that gives them a bit more casting.


When I say caster inquisitor I mean make an inquisitor that's main/only MO is casting spells

Silver Crusade

Oh, Okay.

*shrugs*

Don't play that many casters so I wouldn't know then, there's not Archetype that makes them a 9th level caster, and they have a huge suite of other abilties.


If they can use spells with attack rolls then the justice judgement comes into play. Piercing judgement will help with SR. Debuffing with intimidate could maybe help save DCs, effectively?

Then there's the sanctified slayer. Studied target applies to save DCs.

A monster tactician is as good a summoner as any, better than most, and would probably be the only one to have casting endurance enough for a standard game - games where the PCs don't usually have multiple encounters in a day do exist.

This is a bit of quick analysis, I haven't tried to make a caster inquisitor.


Your question does not make a lot of sense. Inquisitors are casters and always have been. Their DC is the same as any other caster so they boost it the same way any other caster would. Simply max out WIS if you want to raise the DC of your spells.

The key to a successful caster is not using spells for everything. It is using spells in the right situation. Any class that relies solely on spells will either run out of them quickly or spend a lot of time standing around doing nothing. Inquisitors have more class abilities than any other caster so they have more options than to just cast a spell. A wizard who needs protection vs fire has only one option which is to cast a spell. An Inquisitor can use judgement of resistance or cast a spell. They can also overcome spell resistance by using solo tactics to use Allied Spellcaster even when the other player does not have the feat.

Also look at the types of spells inquisitors get. They get very few direct attack spells, and most of the ones they do get are highly focused on specific types of targets. What they do get is a lot of buffs and utility spells. By themselves the buffs may not seem that impressive, but combined with their other class abilities and they can become incredibly powerful. Judgements stack with just about any spell and Bane works on the weapon so also stacks. An inquisitor can get a sacred bonus, a luck bonus and a morale bonus and use them all with bane.

Play a race that gets extra spells known as a favored class bonus to increase the number of spells known. Also use wands and scrolls like any other caster and you will probably never run out of spells. With a few wands of cure light wounds and spells for condition removal inquisitors can be the healer of the group.


Seems like a case of Samsaran to the rescue!!!


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Your question does not make a lot of sense. Inquisitors are casters and always have been. Their DC is the same as any other caster so they boost it the same way any other caster would. Simply max out WIS if you want to raise the DC of your spells.

I can't tell if your deliberately missing the point or just don't understand caster progression, a full caster will get higher level spells sooner, higher lever spells means higher DCs it also means you have more spells because you have more levels of spell casting to use.

2/3 caster classes that do casting well have work arounds for this, the Mesmerist for example gets hypnotic stare, which lowers will saves effectively a built in +2 to your DCs, Silksworn Occultists get a +2 to all their DCs and bonus spells and more spells known built into the archetype to make it an effective caster. Inquisitors don't have mechanics that cover these gaps. As a result their Dcs are going to be below par and their spells per day will be too.

Quote:


The key to a successful caster is not using spells for everything. It is using spells in the right situation. Any class that relies solely on spells will either run out of them quickly or spend a lot of time standing around doing nothing. Inquisitors have more class abilities than any other caster so they have more options than to just cast a spell. A wizard who needs protection vs fire has only one option which is to cast a spell. An Inquisitor can use judgement of resistance or cast a spell. They can also overcome spell resistance by using solo tactics to use Allied Spellcaster even when the other player does not have the feat.

Now in trying to argue your point you've started asking my question, they can cover their spells per day inadequasy with judgements and solo tactics. Although overcoming SR is actually not really one of the primary issues with 2/3 casters. And judgements are a very finite resource.

Quote:


Also look at the types of spells inquisitors get. They get very few direct attack spells, and most of the ones they do get are highly focused on specific types of targets. What they do get is a lot of buffs and utility spells.

Now you're making my argument for me, their spell list doesn't favour builds focused around casting

Quote:


By themselves the buffs may not seem that impressive, but combined with their other class abilities and they can become incredibly powerful. Judgements stack with just about any spell and Bane works on the weapon so also stacks. An inquisitor can get a sacred bonus, a luck bonus and a morale bonus and use them all with bane.

I am familiar with the strengths of the inquisitor these strengths do not favour a focus on casting, hence my question.

Quote:


Play a race that gets extra spells known as a favored class bonus to increase the number of spells known. Also use wands and scrolls like any other caster and you will probably never run out of spells.

Wands and scrolls have notoriously low caster levels and DCs mostly useful for out of combat utility, I don't think they would fill the gaps in the inquisitor to make an effective caster central build, make a build that utilises casting, sure, focuses on it, I'm skeptical.

Quote:

With a few wands of cure light wounds and spells for condition removal inquisitors can be the healer of the group.

That's not particularly exciting or interesting, anyone with those spells on their spell list can do that

Grand Lodge

Every class is give a set of class features the more of them you can utilize the better your character will be. This leads to 2 problems with 3/4th Bab 6th level casters.

First they ofter have ability that make them good martial characters. Bab, Judgments, bane, investigators study, hunters AC, teamwork feats and animal focus. This means if you are not using these features you are losing a good chunk of the class and what it was designed to do. This is distinct from the mesmerist a 6th casting class.

Second is spells and spell DCs. You can search these boards and find threads complaining about every 9th level spell list that is not the wizard list so it must be the case the a list that is 33% smaller before even looking at the spells on it must be a detriment. Add to that casting fewer casting and dcs that start falling behind at level 3.

So aknowledging we are coming from a disadvantaged place what can we do.

Solutions

The obvious option crank wisdom to 18-20, DC boosting meta-magic get spells to target each save and use you monster knowledge to land the spells that target the weakest save. This will leave you with a lot of turns doing nothing. If you use racial spell like abilities and recharge inate magic this can help. Quarterstaff of entwined sepents may help as well. First few levels are rough for most people who play caster it will be worse for you.

Options two:

Make an high wis archer focused on litany spells then buy a persistent metamagic rod and try to make 3 really debilitating spells a day stick.

As suggested above sanctified slayer is the best option for either build as study give a boost to dcs. A grippli gives a decent stat array. You will be a little under optimized as an archer but you will be consistently doing damage and not wasting you class abilities like bane.

I hate playing with 12 con but stat array before racials could look like:

12/16/12/10/16/7

Mid level first round knowledge check, identify a weak target, study, hit with persistent spell, pepper with arrows and litany spells for the rest of the fight.

A sickening blistering invictive may be a good opening move. Th is pairs well with the conversation inquisition.

Other stuff.

The inquisitor list packed with save or suck spell. With a heavy emphasis on single target mind effecting so keep immunities in mind.


Living Grimoire or Hexenhammer are good for this, the former letting you prepare spells (which helps for utility) and the latter giving limited hex debuffs, which have better DCs.

My experience with Living Grimoire caster was that leading with demoralizing (particularly through blistering invective) could help with competitive save DCs. Also that Inquisitor is better suited to support casting than offensive in many instances (often I'd lead with an AoE buff or blistering invective, then use the feat Escape Route to help with flanking).

Blistering Invective and Terrible Remorse are better offensive spells because the save isn't super important overall. Also Bless/Prayer. Maybe pick a domain with an offensive power as well (Weather gives a free penalty with its first level ability, so it scales a bit better with levels).

Hope this helps.


Hmm focusing on the litany spells would be pretty kewl

But to be clear their isn't an established inquisitor caster build I've somehow never heard of? Because I was recently lead to believe there was.


Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
When I say caster inquisitor I mean make an inquisitor that's main/only MO is casting spells

That's not gonna happen. Inquisitors are good at everything because their kit meshes well together. Their spells are full of utility, but a lot of that utility is wrapped around increasing their already formidable skill checks into sky-high levels. They also have great buff spells that allow them to be amazing at combat.

Ignoring all other aspects of their kit and focusing on just one will feel lackluster, but the class is so awesome that it's still a doable thing to pull off.

Caster Inquisitors work best with either the Living Grimoire Archetype (which makes the Inquisitor a prepared caster, allowing them to fufill the role of "divine healer" better) or the Sanctified Slayer Archetype (assuming that the Studied Target boost to class DCs also applies to spells). Stuff like Mass Castigate, Holy Word, Overwhelming Presence etc. are all capable of ending encounters, though most are of high level. At lower level, you'll have to rely on stuff like Ear Piercing Scream and Command.


It's been said, but somehow ignored, but Monster Tactician is very much a caster.


Monster Tactician, split feats between summoning boosts and archery, focus on WIS, DEX, STR. It basically writes itself. And the free teamwork feats that you share with summons is pretty stellar on top of that.


Torbyne wrote:
Monster Tactician, split feats between summoning boosts and archery, focus on WIS, DEX, STR. It basically writes itself. And the free teamwork feats that you share with summons is pretty stellar on top of that.

Monster Tactician doesn't even have to do the archery stuff. You can focus on your buff spells, like bless, after your cast your summons. Grab Acid Splash for filler damage.


I have a decent lvl 11/2 Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor/Viking Fighter that focuses on debuffs.

He is built for Intimidation and has a Cruel Vicious Bardiche. I took two levels of Viking Fighter to get move action Demoralize attempts.

So, beginning of battle, study the target that gives +3 to my DCs.

Once target is in melee range, Move action intimidate (usually sticks as he is up in the mid-40's on his Intimidate skill). This applies a -2 to saves. Follow up with a Swift action attack from Hurtful, which almost always hits at this point in the campaign. This applies another -2 to saves from the sickened effect caused by the Cruel weapon enchantment.

Then five-foot step back and hit with whichever debuff I feel like, all with an effective increase on the DC of 7. I like ones like Inflict Pain (-4 to hit), Terrible Remorse (target beats on itself), Hold Person/Monster (coup de grace bait), and Howling Agony (take a debuff penalty or lose a Move action preventing full attacks).


True enough. i just like dropping selective Bane arrows on top of everything else.


Melkiador wrote:
It's been said, but somehow ignored, but Monster Tactician is very much a caster.

I completely forgot about the Monster Tactician. Yeah, 9 levels of summons definitely makes you a caster, just ask the Summoner. There are a ton of summons that even have their own spellcasting, giving you access to spells that otherwise might not be on your list.


Torbyne wrote:
True enough. i just like dropping selective Bane arrows on top of everything else.

A good option, but if you're wanting to get more caster-like, then drop bane too and combine Monster Tactician with Secret Seeker.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Make an archer with erastil's blessing to use wis to hit on longbows. Then you will have an archer with a high casting stat, which is the most important thing for a caster.


Inquisitors are amazing

Sanctified slayer debuffer and monster tactician both sound like they have real things they can do that are worth doing.


I've played a sanctified Slayer who made great use out of the insane intimidation scores they can get, studied target and a very liberal Blitstering Invective policy. i highly encourage others to try the class.


Torbyne wrote:
I've played a sanctified Slayer who made great use out of the insane intimidation scores they can get, studied target and a very liberal Blitstering Invective policy. i highly encourage others to try the class.

The best part about Blistering Invective is that it's pretty much a Standard Action ability to use Dazzling Display, and it's available at 4th level.

Grand Lodge

Saldiven wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
I've played a sanctified Slayer who made great use out of the insane intimidation scores they can get, studied target and a very liberal Blitstering Invective policy. i highly encourage others to try the class.
The best part about Blistering Invective is that it's pretty much a Standard Action ability to use Dazzling Display, and it's available at 4th level.

I can't tell is this is sarcasm based on the wrong spell level or sincerity with a typo.

Grand Lodge

Sanctified Slayer can vialbly do both at the same time which is awesome.


Grandlounge wrote:
Saldiven wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
I've played a sanctified Slayer who made great use out of the insane intimidation scores they can get, studied target and a very liberal Blitstering Invective policy. i highly encourage others to try the class.
The best part about Blistering Invective is that it's pretty much a Standard Action ability to use Dazzling Display, and it's available at 4th level.
I can't tell is this is sarcasm based on the wrong spell level or sincerity with a typo.

Blistering Invective is available at (class level) 4 because it is a (spell level) 2 spell. Just another case of Up a Level Down a Level.


Maybe they can use some teamwork feats like Allied Spellcaster or Shielded Caster. Are there any more caster oriented teamwork feats?


Yeah. Elemental Commixture & Callous Caster. Both want someone else who actually has the feat rather than just solo maneuvers, though a Monster Tactician could pull off Callous Caster at level 5+ with their summon tactics ability.


avr wrote:

If they can use spells with attack rolls then the justice judgement comes into play. Piercing judgement will help with SR. Debuffing with intimidate could maybe help save DCs, effectively?

Then there's the sanctified slayer. Studied target applies to save DCs.

A monster tactician is as good a summoner as any, better than most, and would probably be the only one to have casting endurance enough for a standard game - games where the PCs don't usually have multiple encounters in a day do exist.

This is a bit of quick analysis, I haven't tried to make a caster inquisitor.

Has the "does Studied Target boost spell DCs" debate ever been settled?


Brew Bird wrote:
avr wrote:

If they can use spells with attack rolls then the justice judgement comes into play. Piercing judgement will help with SR. Debuffing with intimidate could maybe help save DCs, effectively?

Then there's the sanctified slayer. Studied target applies to save DCs.

A monster tactician is as good a summoner as any, better than most, and would probably be the only one to have casting endurance enough for a standard game - games where the PCs don't usually have multiple encounters in a day do exist.

This is a bit of quick analysis, I haven't tried to make a caster inquisitor.

Has the "does Studied Target boost spell DCs" debate ever been settled?

It may not have occured to designers when they wrote the original Slayer ability but there is nothing in the rules to even sugget that it wouldnt apply to spells. Looks like the poster child for "No reply needed".


I think the confusion is from spells and class abilities being listed separately in some cases, especially in the Advanced Race Guide. "Kobold sorcerers with the draconic bloodline or kobold bloodline (Advanced Race Guide 134) treat their Charisma scores as 2 points higher for all sorcerer spells and class abilities."

More recently we do have this text from an ability in the HHH, "Mind and Soul (Ex): A rivethun spirit channeler chooses whether she uses her Wisdom or Charisma score to determine the effects of her medium class abilities (including this archetype’s abilities). This includes (but is not limited to) the minimum ability score needed to learn or cast a medium spell, the save DC of her medium spells, the number of bonus spells (if any) she receives for having a high ability score, the number of times per day she can use her medium abilities, and the effects of her spirit’s abilities." That's just a Player Companion book though, so it'd be nice to have similar text in a book from the RPG series.


Melkiador wrote:

I think the confusion is from spells and class abilities being listed separately in some cases, especially in the Advanced Race Guide. "Kobold sorcerers with the draconic bloodline or kobold bloodline (Advanced Race Guide 134) treat their Charisma scores as 2 points higher for all sorcerer spells and class abilities."

More recently we do have this text from an ability in the HHH, "Mind and Soul (Ex): A rivethun spirit channeler chooses whether she uses her Wisdom or Charisma score to determine the effects of her medium class abilities (including this archetype’s abilities). This includes (but is not limited to) the minimum ability score needed to learn or cast a medium spell, the save DC of her medium spells, the number of bonus spells (if any) she receives for having a high ability score, the number of times per day she can use her medium abilities, and the effects of her spirit’s abilities." That's just a Player Companion book though, so it'd be nice to have similar text in a book from the RPG series.

I am not sure how that relates; it clearly shows there are multiple wordings used to illustrate similar abilities but does nothing to change how i interpet the wording of Studied Target or my understanding of the author's intent.


I was just listing the reasons that both sides believe what they believe. The rules often refer to spells and class abilities as if they were different things. But, then the rules sometimes imply that spells are class abilities.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Caster Inquisitor how to? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice