Multiclass Paladin / Summoner, 2 companions?


Rules Questions


Currently I have someone in my group that is making a new character and is interested in playing a paladin, who will take the "Mount" bond at 5th level, and will multiclass into summoner, who gains an eidolon. Normally most levels in "companion" classes stack for the purpose of determining the companions' advancement, but eidolons and animals companions don't seem to be compatible in this way.

Would this character get both a mount and an eidolon? Or is there some way the two share advancement?


He would have a mount and eidolon, but note the the abilities for each are based on class level and not total character level.


You could take the boon companion feat to have your paladin mount advance when you're not taking paladin levels, for up to 4 non-paladin levels.

There is no equivalent feat for eidolons, as far as I can remember.


There's no equivalent to Boon Companion for Eidolons, and it makes multiclass Summoners basically unviable. I would strongly advise against doing this; it may technically work and give you two separate companions, but those companions will be very weak.

Sczarni

The author of the original version of Boon Companion has stated that, had Summoners existed at the time, he likely would have included Eidolons in the text of the feat. For a homegame it would be easy to rule that it could work, assuming your GM allows it.

Obviously since the Feat has been reprinted, and wasn't updated to include other types of Companions, the answer for PFS would still be "no".

Scarab Sages

Dasrak wrote:
There's no equivalent to Boon Companion for Eidolons, and it makes multiclass Summoners basically unviable.

The Eidolon can still be viable, just not in the same role that a full leveled Eidolon would be. The easy example is if you design the Eidolon for something other than a Combat role. For a PFS example, an Unchained Eidolon has of 4 class skills of choice, 1 feat, and can take an evolution to gain a +8 racial modifier to a skill. So, a 1st level Eidolon can have Disable Device as a Class Skill, Skill focus (Disable Device), Skilled (Ex) Disable Device, and 1 skill rank invested. So, before tools and ability modifiers, the 1st level Eidolon can have +15 to a single skill check.

Not exactly weak, even if it only applies to a single skill check.

So while having a single HD is a liability in combat, that Eidolon doesn't die when killed, doesn't require additional travel considerations (like food or logistical issues regarding getting it past an obstacle...), and doesn't really need to be in combat at all. Just summon it when it's needed, and dismiss it when it isn't needed.


Murdock Mudeater wrote:
The Eidolon can still be viable, just not in the same role that a full leveled Eidolon would be.

While this is fair enough, the character would then need to explore other avenues to be effective in combat. With heavy multiclassing your SLA and spellcasting from the Summoner side would be fairly mediocre at best, so you'd need to completely rely on your other class to pull the overall character in combat. From the sounds of it this is a beginner we're talking about, and Paladin/Summoner with dual companions is setting off alarm bells as a trap. I'd be very hesitant to build something like that. Yes, it's possible to build a non-combat Eidolon that adds a lot of utility to your character, but this is an easy recipe for a multiclass character without any discernible strength in combat.

Scarab Sages

Dasrak wrote:
Murdock Mudeater wrote:
The Eidolon can still be viable, just not in the same role that a full leveled Eidolon would be.
While this is fair enough, the character would then need to explore other avenues to be effective in combat. With heavy multiclassing your SLA and spellcasting from the Summoner side would be fairly mediocre at best, so you'd need to completely rely on your other class to pull the overall character in combat. From the sounds of it this is a beginner we're talking about, and Paladin/Summoner with dual companions is setting off alarm bells as a trap. I'd be very hesitant to build something like that. Yes, it's possible to build a non-combat Eidolon that adds a lot of utility to your character, but this is an easy recipe for a multiclass character without any discernible strength in combat.

On the spellcasting end, the summoner does have a lot of buffing spells, which would be valid options for a fighter (or other combat character). Shield, alone, is probably enough to make a dual weapon or two handed Fighter seriously consider a level dip in an arcane class (especially if using magical lineage and Still Spell). Expeditious Retreat, is also a tempting spell for a Fighter.

Additionally, the "Summon Monster" is a Spell-like ability, so can actually be cast in armor without risk of arcane spell failure. Not amazing, but the Summon Monster uses from a Summoner last 1 minute per level, so even at first level with basic summons, they last long enough to be useful as flankers or harriers.

I'm using "fighter" to refer to any full BAB character, not just that class. Regarding the OP example of a Paladin and a Summoner, yeah, I think it could work, but you would need to accept that each level taken in Summoner would be reducing the Combat Effectiveness of what a Paladin could be. This would slowly adjust the role of the Paladin, from a fighter to a more support or utility role. Not a problem, just a change in primary role.

Presently, my Paladin in PFS, just started taking levels in Oracle. Presently 3rd Paladin/ 1st Oracle, but the plan is to take a 2nd level in Oracle, then dip into the Divine Scion prestige class with Oracle as my +1 spellcasting level per level in the prestige class. And, yeah, I'm aware that each level spent in either Oracle or the Divine Scion, reduces the melee focus of my Paladin, but that's not really a huge issue for me.

The Oracle is not a summoner, but the situation is similar. I do think that a high CHA Paladin is manadatory if you intend to dip into a CHA based caster class.

Regarding the Paladin + Summoner, it is notable that a 7th level Paladin / 4th Level Summoner would Qualify for the Mystic Theurge Prestige class. Probably not the most optimal class there, but an option. The 4th level Paladin / 1st level Summoner could also take the Dragon Disciple prestige class (which would be an awesome choice of a Paladin of Apsu).

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