Possible Errata needed for psychic.


Rules Questions


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Should the spells magic circle vs. evil/good/law/chaos be added to the psychic class list? I find it odd that they have lesser planar binding, planar binding, greater planar binding, agonize and dimensional anchor in their list but have none of the magic circle spells nor the thaumaturgic circle spell to complete the calling ritual. Please hit faq if you feel this needs clarification.

Thanks!


I think there's been a thread for this before, a lot of ppl seem to agree that it makes sense


Glad to heat that! As it's a relatively simple thing to clarify, and some GMs unfortunatelly only accept official rulings, my hope is that this will be addressed by the rules design team.


Reminds me of the spells that were missing from the shaman before it's errata


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Different, but related question: Does anyone else think that the Occultist should have Astral Projection, Etherealness or Plane Shift? They have Create Demiplane which allows them to bring themself to their Demiplane a grand total of once, but if they ever leave it, they can't get back to it at all.
Sure, it's not completely useless, but it's still an odd omission.


Nixitur wrote:

Different, but related question: Does anyone else think that the Occultist should have Astral Projection, Etherealness or Plane Shift? They have Create Demiplane which allows them to bring themself to their Demiplane a grand total of once, but if they ever leave it, they can't get back to it at all.

Sure, it's not completely useless, but it's still an odd omission.

They get UMD as a class skill, and add half their level to UMD checks. I'm sure they could figure it out.


Ral' Yareth wrote:
Glad to heat that! As it's a relatively simple thing to clarify, and some GMs unfortunatelly only accept official rulings, my hope is that this will be addressed by the rules design team.

I believe the core rulebook says something to the effect of:

"With permission from the GM, [spontaneous casters] can also select the spells they gain from new and unusual spells that they come across while adventuring."

So Paizo already anticipated this sort of thing like 8 years ago.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
Ral' Yareth wrote:
Glad to heat that! As it's a relatively simple thing to clarify, and some GMs unfortunatelly only accept official rulings, my hope is that this will be addressed by the rules design team.

I believe the core rulebook says something to the effect of:

"With permission from the GM, [spontaneous casters] can also select the spells they gain from new and unusual spells that they come across while adventuring."

So Paizo already anticipated this sort of thing like 8 years ago.

Totally true, but then again the gm can rule pretty much anything in a home game.

I think it is important to have official clarifications on issues such as this one for pfs people, for those of us who play in many different groups and for gms that prefer to not house rule.


Cuup wrote:
Nixitur wrote:

Different, but related question: Does anyone else think that the Occultist should have Astral Projection, Etherealness or Plane Shift? They have Create Demiplane which allows them to bring themself to their Demiplane a grand total of once, but if they ever leave it, they can't get back to it at all.

Sure, it's not completely useless, but it's still an odd omission.
They get UMD as a class skill, and add half their level to UMD checks. I'm sure they could figure it out.

I guess they could, but it seems weird that they don' have the means to escape their own demiplane without UMD. A first time occultist player could even imprison himself by accident if he is not careful. Somehow I feel that is likely uninetended.


Ral' Yareth wrote:
Cuup wrote:
Nixitur wrote:

Different, but related question: Does anyone else think that the Occultist should have Astral Projection, Etherealness or Plane Shift? They have Create Demiplane which allows them to bring themself to their Demiplane a grand total of once, but if they ever leave it, they can't get back to it at all.

Sure, it's not completely useless, but it's still an odd omission.
They get UMD as a class skill, and add half their level to UMD checks. I'm sure they could figure it out.
I guess they could, but it seems weird that they don' have the means to escape their own demiplane without UMD. A first time occultist player could even imprison himself by accident if he is not careful. Somehow I feel that is likely uninetended.

Nope, that actually can't happen. The creator of the demiplane can always throw someone out of their demiplane, including themself.

Ultimate Magic wrote:
As a standard action, you may eject a creature from your demiplane.

The demiplane also only lasts day/level. It's still a shame and a bit odd that once you leave the demiplane, you can't actually enter it again without using a magic item.


Nixitur wrote:
Ral' Yareth wrote:
Cuup wrote:
Nixitur wrote:

Different, but related question: Does anyone else think that the Occultist should have Astral Projection, Etherealness or Plane Shift? They have Create Demiplane which allows them to bring themself to their Demiplane a grand total of once, but if they ever leave it, they can't get back to it at all.

Sure, it's not completely useless, but it's still an odd omission.
They get UMD as a class skill, and add half their level to UMD checks. I'm sure they could figure it out.
I guess they could, but it seems weird that they don' have the means to escape their own demiplane without UMD. A first time occultist player could even imprison himself by accident if he is not careful. Somehow I feel that is likely uninetended.

Nope, that actually can't happen. The creator of the demiplane can always throw someone out of their demiplane, including themself.

Ultimate Magic wrote:
As a standard action, you may eject a creature from your demiplane.
The demiplane also only lasts day/level. It's still a shame and a bit odd that once you leave the demiplane, you can't actually enter it again without using a magic item.

You are right...

I'd forgotten about the "ejecting someone out" part of the spell.

I still find it weird tough that the occultist has no means to return to the demiplane (which can be made permanent with the permanecy spell) without items.

Back on topic, my gm has ruled that the psychic has the thaumaturgic circle on his spell list, but is unsure if it is supposed to be a 4th level spell (as in the wizard list) or as a 3rd level spell (as some of the other occult classes).


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Regarding the original question, I researched past discussion and found this answer from Mark Seifter about why the psychic doesn't have the Protection from X

Mark Seifter wrote:
Slithery D wrote:
Can you ask why the Psychic didn't get Protection (Magic Circle Against) from Evil on its spell list, or the new Thaumaturgic Circle on its spell list? It's a pretty weird oversight given that they have Planar Binding as an option, so I wonder if it was deliberate, an oversight, or an unfortunate loss due to space concerns?
I'm pretty sure I asked this during the spell list stage, and the reason was that bringing things over is in their wheelhouse but not those abjurations. They can either team up or I guess perhaps bring things over that are uncontrolled; sounds super-safe!


I am sorry to hear that. As far as I am concerned this is an awful decision. I hope they reverse it, if it is indeed the case (as Mark doesn't seem sure of the answer in the quote above).

Thanks for pointing that out.

Sovereign Court

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Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me.

Evil clerics get Planar Ally, not Binding, because casting Magic Circle vs. Evil would be a Good spell and that's not allowed for them. Wizards have no alignment restrictions on spellcasting but have to do the whole Binding thing.

Psychics should get one package or the other, not half a package.


Ascalaphus wrote:

Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me.

Evil clerics get Planar Ally, not Binding, because casting Magic Circle vs. Evil would be a Good spell and that's not allowed for them. Wizards have no alignment restrictions on spellcasting but have to do the whole Binding thing.

Psychics should get one package or the other, not half a package.

Agreed.

Why would you ever invest spell knowns into planar bindings, agonize etc, if you are depending on, let's say the wizard, to cast the magic circle?

Why not let the wizard do the whole calling and save yourself the spell knowns?

If the abjurations required for functional planar bindings are not aligned with the flavor of the psychic class (and frankly they might not be), why not replace planar binding with planar ally in their spell list?

Silver Crusade

Planar Ally, as well as its lesser and greater versions, are already on the psychic spell list. They get both sets of spells


Mathmick wrote:
Planar Ally, as well as its lesser and greater versions, are already on the psychic spell list. They get both sets of spells

You are right. Had to double check it, cause I couldn't believe it

Really weird. Now I find it even crazier that they don't have the magic circles in their list, since apparently the designers envision psychics as some sort of master summoners.

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