So taking a look in the Black Markets book I came across what might be the best poison class in the entire game: Eldritch Poison Alchemist. It stacks with no other archetype.
In exchange for losing you Bombs and Mutagen you get an Arcanotoxin that you can shape how you want it. Unfortunately, all discoveries that affect mundane poisons don't work on Arcanotoxin, it has discoveries that help that though.
So I built a poison user, who dual wields 2 Arachnids Fangs, has a Bite attack and uses a lot of toxins. I can apply 5 different poisons in a full attack action .
So my question is this: HOW do you make this better?
i know its not what your looking for but make a character that doesn't use poison as poisons actually are really really bad and are only useful for levels up to probably 7 after that things are usually just flat out immune to them even though the archetype gives you a pretty decent dc many creatures are just gona still blow past it as their fort saves will be monstrous, they will be immune to poison, have some sort of ungodly bonus vs poison, or be immune to ability damage or just anything that needs a fortitude save.
and while this may be the best when it comes to using poisons, poisons are still very bad for the amount of resources traded away to get those.
Hmm if i'm being honest. I can't see it being that good compared to just standard toxicant with ALL the good alchemist discoveries.
The main issue with Eldritch poisons is the action speed.
Standard action to make poison, lasts for 1 min, move action to apply it.
and later a move action for both.
So you can't really use it much at all.. It makes pretty good opening oomph. but Honestly I can't see you doing the dual with bite set up as you listed above very. Poison each one, then poison your bite. 3 turns (3 move actions).
each one gets one hit only before you ened to reapply it
and on top of that.. i'm not sure you can even poison your bite. You're not immune to your own poisons. Nothing says you are. In theory because bites are classified as weapons you can indeed poison them. So you should be able to poison it without poisoning yourself.....
but just be aware that some GM's might say you might expose yourself to it. Prior to lv 11 that would be an issue.
If the poison lasted longer, or could get down to a swift at least.. It would be a lot cooler.
Or if it didn't replace bombs, or if it didn't replace mutagen.
The issue in the end, is that this poisoner doesn't make a good main focus style. Doesn't allow for enough poisonings in any given combat scenario. But. it replaces a large damaging component. Granted bombs aren't everything, but you don't get as much in return. further due to lack of mutagen you're just a 3/4th with no to hit or damage increases. Sure do have some good extracts though.
\Of course its good for openings and other moments. Or for a vital strike style spear user~
Injectino spear would be good.
|
2 people marked this as a favorite.
|
I've been playing with the idea of an Eldritch Poisoner myself, and came to the same conclusion Zwordman had: the Arcanotoxin itself has terrible action economy, and only makes for a good opener if you have had preparation time. For the rest of the combat I would turn to the regular poisons, but only if you optimize for it (still not fantastic, though)
Poison Focus: raises the DC of crafted poisons by 1.
Racial Heritage: go for Nagaji, their Alchemist favorite class bonus is an increase of crafted poison DC's of 1/3 (it's not much, but poisons need all they can get).
Accomplished Sneak Attacker: You get a class feature that allows trading sneak attack for poison DC, better up that.
Toxic and Injecting: Although the Arachnid Fang is cool and all, you want the DC increase of Toxic. Injecting can also be added to regain the ability of applying poison (works better in conjunction with the Sticky Poison Discovery)
Poisoned Sand Tube: Buy a couple and pre-fill them with contact/inhaled poisons you made yourself. Don't worry if you're not proficient, it does not require an attack roll.
Poisoning Sheath: Helps you prep your poisonous assault 4 hours in advance.
Notable poisons: Red Tears, Confabulation Powder, Large Scorpion Venom, Giant Wasp Poison, Jackalroot Essence, Flaming Doom
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
There is also Virulent http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MagicWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Virulent
Now.. don't get me wrong. the Eldritch Poisoner can be a lot of fun. I just want to be sure you're aware of the limitations. It can still work alright but you won't be "lord of all poison!" so to speak.
I've made quite a lot of poison types. There is also a ranger that isn't bad. It's just an effective ranger, but gets a few poisons to use.
but so far the best poison user i've had is still the Toxicant Alchemist. I myself also spliced in trapper.. but I love the bomb traps (poison trap for instance is nice).
Toxicant is weird. It just trades ou the mutagen. It doesn't impact Ability scores sadly but it can put on some great debuffs. Mostly what is good about it though, is the uses per day, the speed of application, the ability to straight up use it as a touch attack, and lastly.. the lack of an actual duration.
Chances are they were meant to only last a day. and that is how I play with it. but techincally speaking they have no expiration date inset.
Which would make it very good for the "poison conversion to inhale and stack" method. Though I go light on that concept when I've done it in the past. Purely because the GM can also do it to me.
I've also dipped and not dipped guild poisoner.. it seems to be negligible difference in the end for the above build. Though I never go that deep into it.
--------
Oh IMPORTANT distinction about the Nagaji favored class bonus.
its "created" not "crafted" unless they've since changed that?
meaning.. created, i.e. your special ability and crafted things, spells as well technically.
That, along with the main alchemist discoveries, and a fair few of the above ideas. Make for a rather effective "Poison Lord" as I called it. EIther with bow, a rapier, or with an Injection spear (if valid in your game... I love this weapon.. Filled it with drugs hah. Or that waters of lamshu liquid to inject)
===========
but if you just enjoy the Eldrich poisoner. It certainly can work alrigh~ Just requires planning and alternative combat methods.
I see, it does say "created". That changes things, because that has a broader interpretation.
Also missed the Virulent enhancement. I mainly play PFS, and because that enhancement is race restricted in that system, I completely overlooked it. Nice catch.
The Celestial Poisons discovery takes care of most of the targets that are immune to poison. Alchemist can be effective poison users at high levels.
Ok! now that i've had some ACTUAL sleep I can explain things further. The game is Hell's vengeance. Which means Paladins and Angels and Archons. Paladins aren't immune, Angels and Archons get a +4 Resistance to Poison. I was making it a Crimson Chymist Alchemist and embrace the mantis but after seeing their Ingest Venom ability I started fiddling around with poisons and got more interested in that.
Race: Tiefling
Stats:
Str: 10
Dex: 16 (17)
Con: 14
Int: 18 (20)
Wis: 10
Cha: 8
Level Up:
4th lvl: Int
8th lvl: Int
12th lvl: Dex
Trait: Potent Concotions (Blue Whinnis and Arcanotoxin)
Trait 2: Empty (need one)
Arcanotoxin: 19/Day
DC: 22 (23 with Potent Concotions, 24 with Poison Focus, 28 with Careful Injection, 30 if Wpn is Toxic. HIgher if Virulent)
Type: Poison, Save: See above, Frequency 1/Round for 4 Rounds
Effect: 1d6 Dexterity or Constitution (Chosen on creation), Cure: 3 saves.
Combine Toxins: 1d4 Dexterity and Constitution.
Arcanotoxin Abilities:
1st: Dexterity Damage
3rd: Increased Die (1d3)
5th: Increase Frequency
7th: Increased Die (1d4)
9th: Increase Consecutive Saves
11th: Increased Die (1d6)
13th: Increase Consecutive Saves
Discoveries:
2nd: Concentrate Poison
6th: Poison Conversion
8th: Sticky Poison
10th: Malignant Poison
12th: Lethal Toxin
14th: Envenom
Feats:
1st: Poison Focus (+1 DC to crafted Poisons)
3rd: Weapon Finesse
5th: Master Alchemist
7th: Two-Weapon Fighting
9th: Toxicological Timing
11th: Extra Discovery Combine Toxins
13th: Extra Discovery Toxic Fumes
I've laid out what my character has to help better show the route I am going with it.
As for the actual application of Arcanotoxin, Yes normally it is a Standard And move, but Envenom makes it 1 single move action to make and apply, as it turns the process into 1 action total (which is fine as the goal is poison application not how many times can I stab you in a round).
I absolutely LOVE The Toxic and Virulent magic abilities, i didn't even know they existed. I use the D20PFSRD for a LOT of things and they just haven't been updated with some of the latest stuff.
Now you might be saying: "Danzibe you have some discoveries that clearly don't work with Arcanotoxin."
Thats ok, you are right. I still make normal Poisons.
"But Danzibe that isn't cost effective at all."
True true, but Eldritch Poisoner can craft Poisons in HALF the amount of time, and with Master Alchemist I can make addition doses equal to my Int score. I am perfectly OK with spending my money on my materials, it enhances the roleplay to be honest.
"But Danzibe, poisons suck!" Not at all. My DM is also allowing me to increase the DC of Crafted Poisons by +1 for every 5 I beat the DC.
"But Danzibe, most things will have such high will saves they'll always save" You are correct and I am a glutton for punishment.
Also, I can use a new Alchemist Formulate that allows me to absorb a poison to make my bite from Maw or Claw poisonous. So I apply Arcanotoxin, Bluewhinnis to 1 weapon (Like the Arachnid Fang), and then 2 other poisons to the other weapon, and then absorb one for my bite. If all attacks hit, I can attempt to poison my opponent 5 different times.
Oh and don't get me started on OPIUM, thats ridiculous.
Some of those choices are ratfolk only which is likely why you missed them.
I however agree it's wonderful. May I make a suggestion?
Unchained rogue for 3 levels.
Here's why.
1. Sneak attack. That means more DC.
2. Free weapon finesse. Saves a spot
But most importantly
3. Rogue talent.
See you can't use DISCOVERIES to boost poison.
But a rogue one that is always ignored that allows you to hit 2x with the same poison before it wears off? Hey that's not a discovery.
Suddenly you're hitting 2x with the same weapon. Maybe you poisoned 2 daggers. Now you're doing 4 poison. That's +6 dc at the end, not including sneak.
I also recommend "spark of crration."
+1 to alchemy and 5% off poison costs!
Here's my build thoughts up to mid high levels
1 al 1: Alchemy, brew potion. Feat: poison focus 1d6 sneak
2 ro 1: Weapon finesse. 2d6 sneak
3 al 2: weapon focus feat. Discovery: envenom move action.
4 ro 2: talent: poison x2 evasion
5 ro 3: add dex damage 3d6 sneak feat feat: master alchemist
6 al 3: 1d3 poison
7 al 4: 4d6. Feat: precise strike
8 alch 5
9 alch 6
10
11 paralytic 5d6
12
13 accomplished sneak attacker 6d6
As you can see there's still dozens of choices in my build to make for feats and discoveries.
I like ratfolk myself. Now there's no reason to prevent you from getting those enchants AND with other ratfolk (or a feat) you're always flanking for that sneak.
hmm, that'd be dangerous. What is the rogue Talent? From what I am thinking, perhaps I can poison someone 7 times in 1 turn...
Its true that after a certain point (Usually lvl 15) the Eldritch Poisoner has nothing left to give to the class itself, as you qualify for the Paralytic Toxin at that point.
and yes Spark of Creation would be useful, but that %5 is for Magic Items, and poisons are not magic items.
Yes I meant potions not poisons. Sorry. Poisons on the brain.
lasting poison.
Not for everyone but for your uses of ambushing death? Vastly enough.
If trapfinding isn't your thing there is a lot of archetypes to trade that out for extra fun.
Waylayer chameleon or swashbuckler are all fun ways to play with this type of thing.
Bladelock wrote: The Celestial Poisons discovery takes care of most of the targets that are immune to poison. Alchemist can be effective poison users at high levels. i feel like that discovery forgot that undead are just flat out immune to anything that needs a fort save rather than just being immune to poisons
Wouldn't matter as this bypasses said immunity.
Undead use charisma for for saves for just such a thing, to have a number to use for when someone strips that immunity or bypasses it.
Cavall wrote: Wouldn't matter as this bypasses said immunity.
Undead use charisma for for saves for just such a thing, to have a number to use for when someone strips that immunity or bypasses it.
but they are immune on multiple levels and that seems far to powerful for just a feat like ability like you dont see any feats out there that strip a target of its fire immunity let alone multiple elemental imunities at the same time
Well sure there are.
Let's look at a random spell like medusa bane.
It reflects the game of a game attack back, effects the person even if they have immunity but doesn't bypass immunity of other gaze attacks.
Exactly what we are talking about. Takes immunity of one thing, says "except this" and then leaves other immunities intact. Like the poison or your fire example.
Or draconic malice. Something immune to mind effects is now subject to your fear effects.
Still has immunities. Just not not something you can do.
Game has lots of stuff like this.
Celestial poison is no different. Thats why undead still have fort saves. For ehen something bypasses.
Given the game I am in, I am not too worried about Celestial Poisons, as I am fighting Good aligned creatures like Angels and Archons and Paladins.
Yes sorry for the tangent there.
Anyways, yeah 3 levels of rogue near the start will save you feats boost damage and sneaks and give access to rogue abilities. That's my advice and it's the way I'm going.
You can be quite the ambusher with it, strike fast and hard (a reason I liked the waylayer) and move on. You can do a lot within a minute of creating these. Including adding to a friend's weapon with envenom. Just spread it around and watch the stats fall to 0 fast.
Have fun!
Oh and obviously *gaze not game for the above.
Danzibe1989 wrote: Ok! now that i've had some ACTUAL sleep I can explain things further. The game is Hell's vengeance. Which means Paladins and Angels and Archons. Paladins aren't immune, Angels and Archons get a +4 Resistance to Poison. I was making it a Crimson Chymist Alchemist and embrace the mantis but after seeing their Ingest Venom ability I What's a crimson chymist? Is that an alternate name for an archetype? Or just something yoru basing it off of?
anyway. Yeah it'll work fine in the end~
haha. and I will be the last person in the world to tel lyou not to play a poisoner. They're more or less the only concept in this that i enjoy.
I love item and poison based guys..
Still want an expanded alchemical items guide~
and kind of a replacement for extracts that make amazing alchemical items. Ala' the Chemist class in FFD20's style. It'd baiscally still be spells just a different form of alchemy
Zwordsman wrote: Danzibe1989 wrote: Ok! now that i've had some ACTUAL sleep I can explain things further. The game is Hell's vengeance. Which means Paladins and Angels and Archons. Paladins aren't immune, Angels and Archons get a +4 Resistance to Poison. I was making it a Crimson Chymist Alchemist and embrace the mantis but after seeing their Ingest Venom ability I What's a crimson chymist? Is that an alternate name for an archetype? Or just something yoru basing it off of?
anyway. Yeah it'll work fine in the end~
haha. and I will be the last person in the world to tel lyou not to play a poisoner. They're more or less the only concept in this that i enjoy.
I love item and poison based guys..
Still want an expanded alchemical items guide~
and kind of a replacement for extracts that make amazing alchemical items. Ala' the Chemist class in FFD20's style. It'd baiscally still be spells just a different form of alchemy Some may not have the book yet. Crimson Chymist is in the Adventurer's Guide. It is an archtype for Alchemist that follow the Red Mantis. They can grow claws on their wrists, still wield weapons, ingest venom and a couple of other things. Its flavorful but simple.
Cavall wrote: Yes sorry for the tangent there.
Anyways, yeah 3 levels of rogue near the start will save you feats boost damage and sneaks and give access to rogue abilities. That's my advice and it's the way I'm going.
You can be quite the ambusher with it, strike fast and hard (a reason I liked the waylayer) and move on. You can do a lot within a minute of creating these. Including adding to a friend's weapon with envenom. Just spread it around and watch the stats fall to 0 fast.
Have fun!
Oh and obviously *gaze not game for the above.
while it is a nice thought on its own, and i have definitely looked into rogue as a poison based class, the more i read about poisons the more i've seen that their biggest problem is not so much DC but Cost vs Efficiency. As generally the cost is too high for a 1 use item. The Eldritch Poison Alchemist actually helps solve a bit of that with its own class based poison.
As for the Rogue Talent Lasting Poison. Alchemist have access to Sticky Poison which is actually better as it lasts for my Int mod. Applying 2 doses in 2 successful strikes only increases the frequency and DC. I don't need that. I need to debilitate with as many things as possible as fast as possible. It is also why despite having Two-Weapon Fighting I don't plan to go further down the tree line, as I only took it to get that off hand poison application.
As it stands I can apply Tears of Death (Converted to injury), Arcanotoxin, Blue Whinnis, Opium (yeah its drug, but its injury drug so it works), and I can choose one more for Venoumous Bite Alchemist spell for my bite. As it stands my Arachnid Fangs can hold 8 Blue Whinnis, 8 Tears of death, I can apply Arcanotoxin quickly, and Opium is best used 1 time on a target anyways. All other poisons I have can be applied as a Swift action via Swift Poisoning. I can have whatever poisons I apply other than Arcanotoxin be Sticky Poisons on my blades there after. I won't have a problem at all making sure my poisons last.
Lasting poison would affect arcanotoxins that's why I recommend it. Discoveries wouldnt.
So it's good for doubling that up.
Cavall wrote: Lasting poison would affect arcanotoxins that's why I recommend it. Discoveries wouldnt.
So it's good for doubling that up.
It is good that it would, but the loss of 2 Discoveries and, and an arcanotoxin upgrade don't make up for it.
And again, Lasting Poison has the flaw of giving the enemy a +2 Circumstance bonus to save against it, something I don't want them to have, and a 2nd strike of the poison only increases Frequency and DC by 2
I'd rather have the 25% from Toxic roll in my favor to be honest than lose class abilities for Lasting Poison.
Well I found the sneak attack given balances out the bonus to DC with the trade off. Plus every hit adds 2 DC so having a 2 hit weapon actually adds that. Also because you've got weapon finesse for free you can take discovery for a feat.
I'll admit the trade off of the boost is a downer though. I've thought the resetting of the poison with a second strike is a good balance for that.
Still that's me. You're right to have personal preference.
the hard part now is finding armor abilities and wonderous items that will fit well with my idea.
Well obviously the int headband. Venom eating armour may be helpful. 15k straight add in. Saves vs poison allow you to save up that poison to use yourself.
Ring of swarming stabs for a little backstab may be good too for some extra poison punch.
I've looked at Venom Eating Armour and in the campaign we are in, the chance of encountering poison is next to 0. Saves vs Poison are irrelevant as i am immune to poison entirely, and my GM would probably rule that because I am immune I get no benefit from such things, (as he also believes that because a Paladin is immune to disease he can't receive boosts from Drugs.) I'll have a look at the ring though.
These are the poisons/drugs I plan to use.
Poisons:
Red Tears - 50 per dose
Type poison (injury); Save Fortitude DC 15
Frequency 1/round for 10 rounds
Effect 1d6 points of damage. Creatures immune to bleed effects are immune to this damage; Cure 1 save
Blue Whinnis - 120 per dose
Type poison (injury); Save Fortitude DC 14
Frequency 1/round for 2 rounds
Initial Effect 1 Con damage; Secondary Effect unconsciousness for 1d3 hours; Cure 1 save
Giant Wasp Poison - 210 per dose
Type poison (injury); Save Fortitude DC 18
Frequency 1/round for 6 rounds
Effect 1d2 Dex damage; Cure 1 save
Deathblade - 1,800
Type poison (injury); Save Fortitude DC 20
Frequency 1/round for 6 rounds
Effect 1d3 Con damage; Cure 2 consecutive saves
Large Scorpion Venom - 200
Type poison (injury); Save Fortitude DC 17
Frequency 1/round for 6 rounds
Effect 1d2 Str damage; Cure 1 save
Purple Worm Poison - 700
Type poison (injury); Save Fortitude DC 24
Frequency 1/round for 6 rounds
Effect 1d3 Str damage; Cure 2 consecutive saves
Hemlock - 2,500
Type poison (ingested); Save Fortitude DC 18
Onset 10 minutes; Frequency 1/minute for 6 minutes
Effect 1d6 Dex damage, creatures reduced to 0 Dexterity suffocate; Cure 2 consecutive saves
Drugs:
OPIUM Type inhaled, ingested, or injury; Addiction major, Fortitude DC 20 Price 25 gp Effects 1 hour; +1d8 temporary hit points, +2 alchemical bonus on Fortitude saves, fatigue Damage 1d4 Con and 1d4 Wis damage
ZERK Type injury; Addiction minor, Fortitude DC 18 Price 50 gp Effects 1 hour; +1 alchemical bonus to initiative. If addicted, the user also gains a +1d4 alchemical bonus to Strength for as long as he is addicted Damage 1d2 Con damage
That build looks fine, Danzibe, and the poison DC is far higher than I initially thought it would be. Just realize that Potent Concoctions is religion bound to Ghlaunder (D20 is not allowed to use official names, therefor they omit this). Maybe your GM doesn't care, or he can house rules it for you that you can have it. It's just so you know that this is the case.
Back to the build. Only thing I would change is the second Consecutive Save increase. People usually do not survive multiple rounds of combat, and you drop so many different poisons in a single round, I doubt it really matters that he needs three consecutive saves. I myself would pick another Ability Score to target. A favorite of mine to target is Intelligence. Not for humanoids or outsiders, but for the big dumb animals and primitive magical beasts. Intelligence is usually not their best score (read: 1-2, maybe 3), and once that hits 0 they are comatose. Take out the cavaliers horse, the druids animal companion, down the T-Rex in one fell blow (difficult, but doable). This advice might be terrible, as I do not know what runs around in the Hell's Vengeance campaign next to paladins and good outsiders. But I still recommend another Ability Score to target (CHA might also be good vs Undead, with your Celestial Poison Discovery).
Now some magic advice. First, have you considered the pseudo-buffer method? You still have Brew Potion, so you might want to make use of Invigorating Poison. You're immune to poison, therefor you cannot benefit from it. But your allies can! Make some of these potions for them, and when time comes, poison them when they are under its effect. Instead of being poisoned, they gain a +4 Alchemical Bonus to the score the poison would have targeted. You do not have that much strength, so the damage is minimal (especially if you poison them with CON poison). Or just smear it on them if combat draws close, or let them inhale it. Just poison your friends for benefits.
As for Armor stuff, I do not know what kind of armor you're wearing. Let's assume a Mithral Kikko (Medium, but treated as light for walking purposes, 0 ACP). Mithral Breastplate is also an option if you're willing to spend your second trait on Armor Expert. Magical abilities to add (next to standard +1 enhancements for armor class) could include:
Terrain-Striding or Expeditious for extra speed.
Shadow or Slick for just extra Skill Bonuses
Malevolent for extra chance of hitting in the surprise round/against tripped enemies.
Other items that might be useful:
Choker of the Siphoning Scorpion to pass your poison around for use by other allies.
Poison Vial of Distance to poison people from a distance, from behind the corner, maybe without being seen.
Poisoner's Gloves, not really sure if you have use for it, but maybe when you get disarmed?
Meduseion to lower everyone's saves versus poison and a once per day petrification ray (Azata's are immune). Very expensive, and maybe your GM will not allow it. But if you can get your hands on it, you want it.
Mr. Bonkers wrote: That build looks fine, Danzibe, and the poison DC is far higher than I initially thought it would be. Just realize that Potent Concoctions is religion bound to Ghlaunder (D20 is not allowed to use official names, therefor they omit this). Maybe your GM doesn't care, or he can house rules it for you that you can have it. It's just so you know that this is the case.
Back to the build. Only thing I would change is the second Consecutive Save increase. People usually do not survive multiple rounds of combat, and you drop so many different poisons in a single round, I doubt it really matters that he needs three consecutive saves. I myself would pick another Ability Score to target. A favorite of mine to target is Intelligence. Not for humanoids or outsiders, but for the big dumb animals and primitive magical beasts. Intelligence is usually not their best score (read: 1-2, maybe 3), and once that hits 0 they are comatose. Take out the cavaliers horse, the druids animal companion, down the T-Rex in one fell blow (difficult, but doable). This advice might be terrible, as I do not know what runs around in the Hell's Vengeance campaign next to paladins and good outsiders. But I still recommend another Ability Score to target (CHA might also be good vs Undead, with your Celestial Poison Discovery).
Now some magic advice. First, have you considered the pseudo-buffer method? You still have Brew Potion, so you might want to make use of Invigorating Poison. You're immune to poison, therefor you cannot benefit from it. But your allies can! Make some of these potions for them, and when time comes, poison them when they are under its effect. Instead of being poisoned, they gain a +4 Alchemical Bonus to the score the poison would have targeted. You do not have that much strength, so the damage is minimal (especially if you poison them with CON...
He knows it belongs to Ghlaunder. I find it puzzling it isn't a Norgorber trait really, given that Ghlaunder is more about disease and pestilence than poisons like Norgorber.
I agree on the Consecutive Saves. I think that was just me being over cautious about wanting the poison to stick and stay stuck. I also though about Intelligence, given pesky spellcasters that use it could royally screw me up with Will Save spells, or if I know from a knowledge check if a creature is generally dumb I can try to neuter those types of things. It was a toss up between Int and Wis, given the amount of Clerics/Paladins/Angels/Archons etc. There aren't any undead really in the campaign so I don't plan to take Celestial Poison. (He says despite knowing a dragon ghost is in the campaign coming up REAL soon)
I saw Invigorating Poison. I absolutely loved it when I saw it but I saw how I planned to make my DCs and found it a bit difficult for my allies. But upon further look they don't need to make the save as the spell/potion counteracts it all. As I am typing this up I started to look back into it and went "But I don't have Infusion Discovery" and that is when i remembered it was a 2nd level spell/potion and YOU said Brew Potion lol. Probably the best way to get around it, especially when i have Spark of Creation now as my 2nd Trait.
As for Armor: I can't wear ANYTHING Medium unless I have Medium Armor Proficiency, even if it is Mithril. Alchemists get Light armor and no shields. So currently its just a +4 Mithril Chain Shirt.
Poison Vial of Distance would be fantastic with Inhaled poisons as they should hit a 10 by 10 area (like the Arcanotoxin's Toxic Fumes).
I passed on Poisoner's Gloves, they aren't too good.
Meduseion is useful but it feels like such a unique item that my Gm probably would not. These are sound item choices though for sure.
The fun thing about armor proficiency, is that all it negates is taking the APC penalty on your attacks and stuff as well. Since the Mithral Kikko has an ACP of 0, it would mean that without Medium Armor Proficiency you would take an additional penalty of 0 on your attacks. Which means, it doesn't matter if your proficient or not ;) Same thing counts for shields.
So, 0 ACP = no penalty whatsoever.
While that may be correct, my GM would probably not agree. I don't want to poke it lol.
So for Invigorating Poison Potions i chose to create
Violet Venom - 800
Type poison (contact); Save Fort DC 13
Frequency 1/minute for 6 minutes
Effect 1d2 Str and 1d2 Con damage; Cure 1 save
Striped Toadstool - 180
Type poison (ingested); Save Fortitude DC 11
Onset 10 minutes; Frequency 1/minute for 4 minutes
Effect 1d3 Wis damage and 1 Int damage; Cure 1 save
Giant Wasp Poison - 210
Type poison (injury); Save Fortitude DC 18
Frequency 1/round for 6 rounds
Effect 1d2 Dex damage; Cure 1 save
This way I can cover all the bases except for Charisma. Should an ally need a boost, I got them covered. Since it is alchemical, it will stack with Enhancement bonuses as well.
In that case I'll give the medium armor thing a rest. Since it is now Light Armor, Phantasmal might be funny. Acrobatics around your foe, leave a threatening image, and flank with it (does require some movement boost though to be effective). Phase Lurching could also be fun, especially if you need to escape a building.
You said that your character is aware of the ghost dragon, so it wouldn't be metagaming to carry a couple of Spiritbane Spikes around. It isn't your main focus to deal a lot of damage, but this way you still can get your Sneak Attack against it (I know it is difficult to flank a dragon, let alone to survive while standing next to it).
Mr. Bonkers wrote: The fun thing about armor proficiency, is that all it negates is taking the APC penalty on your attacks and stuff as well. Since the Mithral Kikko has an ACP of 0, it would mean that without Medium Armor Proficiency you would take an additional penalty of 0 on your attacks. Which means, it doesn't matter if your proficient or not ;) Same thing counts for shields.
So, 0 ACP = no penalty whatsoever.
I looked it up myself as well, you are absolutely right and since I am not going to use a shield/buckler, I should try to get as much AC as i can get. Mithril Kikko Armor it is!
Phase Lurching seems fun.
And no, my character doesn't know about it. Just me. nothing I can do about it though lol.
Danzibe1989 wrote: I've looked at Venom Eating Armour and in the campaign we are in, the chance of encountering poison is next to 0. Saves vs Poison are irrelevant as i am immune to poison entirely, and my GM would probably rule that because I am immune I get no benefit from such things, (as he also believes that because a Paladin is immune to disease he can't receive boosts from Drugs.) I'll have a look at the ring though. just because the paladin has no chance on getting addicted doesn't mean they cant gain the benefits or hinderences
So I figured would have a go at crafting a poison build, but with a Vivisectionist. Just for the sake of demonstrating what you could make. It's at 10th level. You can read the full statblock here
So, highlights are:
-Using the Unchained Poison system for some hit point damage boosts and accelerating the poison track with each hit, causing greater debilitating effects. Someone described it as not unlike the Magic: The Gathering mechanic of poison counters. It doesn't matter how much damage you inflict. You win by hitting enough to kill the bad guy by failed saves (which could happen in a round or two with enough failed saves)
-Speaking of failed saves. Despite targetting Fortitude, the fact that we are straight up improving the DC's means that they are extremely bloated. With Malignant Poison, Giant Wasp Poison ends up with a DC of 31, which far exceeds anything a creature or player could make at that level. So much so that they exceed the save benchmarks for a 10th level character targeting good saves, which is wonderful for any build focusing on Fortitude saves since typically those builds are doomed to failure as Fortitude saves on monsters rapidly increase. The inflated saves also improves the initial exposure damage.
- This build uses Potent Concoction; Poison Focus; Celestial Poison, Malignant Poison and Sticky Poison discoveries to bypass immunities and get the most from our poisons by way of 4 applications per dose. Note that we don't use Concentrate Poison. This is because it's too expensive for little value, and we can't just keep the poison on our weapons to boost its save via Malignant Poison, since any poison we use with Concentrate Poison must be prepared ahead of time or be wasted. And we don't have the gold to sustain that many concentrations. We also went with Racial Heritage: Nagaji for the insane boost to poison DC's and with the added bonus of easier poison crafting.
-Our weapon is a Kasatha Spinal Sword, which boosts the DC of any applied injury poisons by +2, while also being a light slashing weapon, allowing for Slashing Grace. We also made it Virulent to boost saves further.
-Our other tricks include sneak attacks for more damage and later taking Pernicious Stab to boost saves further, and a generous useage of Alchemical Allocation for powerful, frequent usage of potions of higher level. For just a one time purchase, we can keep using that potion forever if we wanted. Get them in iron vials, though. Maybe see about making them adamantine. Just in case.
That isn't bad at all, I think I could use some of the things you've done with yours. I'll certainly look into it for sure.
Hmm swore i wrote this but it seems it didn't post in my haste this morning.
Oh a note about the poison vial of distance. Might cause some grumps with some GMs. Purely because.. it has no listed action, no loading speed, nor does it state that its all rolled into one action.
Well it does give a range touch attack. So in theory it might be normal poisoning application speed (to a weapon) and normal attack. So maybe it could be used with BAB if you can load it fast enough.
Maybe?
There is that general rule about magic items and it being a standard action.. But I would argue that these are outside the norm. The standard action one is implying command usage type things... Where as this is just a method of attack.
I also feel that for Rod of Ice giving a melee touch attack but then later having a "on command" ability. Differentiating the melee attack from being an on command ability.
I've had 1 gm say that both of those are always SA. but i've also had another say its just like any other magic proc on an attack (such as a preactivated flaming enchantment modfiying a weapon attack.)
but mileage will vary. Don't think its messy for either of those two items myself, but some might.
Well as much as it is nice I don't think I will acquire it immediately, perhaps later if its necessary.
|
