Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game

Starfinder


Pathfinder Society


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Heroic Array for Everyone


Advice

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

What are your thoughts on having all PCs start with the heroic NPC stat allocation of 15 14 13 12 10 8?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

It defaults to a 15 point buy per rules, or standard fantasy. Doesn't really disadvantage players in any way, but some might feel it takes away their control over building their own character.


It's a little lower than what you roll on average. 16, 14, 13, 12, 10, 9


I dislike low point buys or the equivalent because of MAD characters. Many classes need at least 3 decent stats to function properly(decent con + 2 combat stats). Low stat games favor already powerful classes like wizard


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber

I've run a fairly long campaign with just the heroic array for PCs - worked fine, including for the monks and paladins in the game.

I would agree that low *point-buy* can favor wizards in some ways, but Heroic array means no min-maxing a 19 or 20 Int while sacrificing most everything else.

L1 Fighter: 17, 13, 14, 10, 12, 8: Greatsword +4 (2d6 + 4), w/o feats
L1 Wizard: 10, 14, 13, 17, 12, 8: DC 15/16 color spray
L1 Paladin: 14, 10, 13, 12, 8, 17 (among other options): Smiting evil, Greatsword +6 (2d6+4), 2 better AC than the fighter.

All quite effective.


Dastis wrote:
I dislike low point buys or the equivalent because of MAD characters. Many classes need at least 3 decent stats to function properly(decent con + 2 combat stats). Low stat games favor already powerful classes like wizard

It's a problem in point buy. But in point array, that SAD score is only a 15, that could only get boosted to a 17 with a racial adjustment. It's not that big of a deal.


Dastis wrote:
I dislike low point buys or the equivalent because of MAD characters. Many classes need at least 3 decent stats to function properly(decent con + 2 combat stats). Low stat games favor already powerful classes like wizard

With a +2, +2, -2 race:

15 > 17 w/ racial
14
13 > 15 w/ racial
12
10
8 > 6 w/ racial

A +3 and two +2s

With a +2 race:

15
14
13 > 15 w/ racial
12
10
8

Three +2s

Shadow Lodge

Majuba wrote:

I've run a fairly long campaign with just the heroic array for PCs - worked fine, including for the monks and paladins in the game.

I would agree that low *point-buy* can favor wizards in some ways, but Heroic array means no min-maxing a 19 or 20 Int while sacrificing most everything else.

L1 Fighter: 17, 13, 14, 10, 12, 8: Greatsword +4 (2d6 + 4), w/o feats
L1 Wizard: 10, 14, 13, 17, 12, 8: DC 15/16 color spray
L1 Paladin: 14, 10, 13, 12, 8, 17 (among other options): Smiting evil, Greatsword +6 (2d6+4), 2 better AC than the fighter.

All quite effective.

This is what I'd hoped.

If it's good enough for NPCs, it should be good enough PCs, right?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I am always keeping an eye out for opportunities for a little blatant self-promotion.

I created a random ability score generator that is built around two concepts:

  • Create usable ability score arrays, rather than generate each score with an equal probability distribution
  • Doing so within a (selectable) total point buy range

It eliminates min/maxing for the most part, gives you pairs of strong primary, moderate secondary, and weak (but not necessarily punitive) tertiary scores, while introducing some randomness so that everyone doesn't look alike.

YMMV.


Serum wrote:
If it's good enough for NPCs, it should be good enough PCs, right?

Nope, PC Wizards are LITERALLY unplayable unless you start with 20 Intelligence.


It's a good array.

One way to level the playing field between fewer-stat classes (like Wizard) and multi-stat classes (like Monk) is to replace the "+1 to one ability score every 4 levels" with a gradual increase in point buy as the characters level. I can suggest +1 per new level, where the players are free to immediately improve lower ability scores or save the points for later to increase higher ability scores.


I can't tell if Balkoth's comment is sarcasm or not. But I've been happily playing a wizard who started with 17 INT for several years now.


Tinalles wrote:
I can't tell if Balkoth's comment is sarcasm or not.

Sarcasm. One of my house rules is that you can't start with higher than a 16 prior to racial modifiers. Then I got told I was for evil for having that restriction by some people on this forum.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

shrug. It's too low powered for the kinds of stories I like to tell. Even before the adventure starts, the PCs should clearly have exceptional promise. I don't think I've ever built a character that didn't have at least a 16 before racial modifiers.

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / Advice / Heroic Array for Everyone All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002-2017 Paizo Inc.® | Privacy Policy | Contact Us
Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours, Monday through Friday, 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM Pacific time.

Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, Starfinder, the Starfinder logo, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc. The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Legends, Pathfinder Online, Starfinder Adventure Path, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.