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Weapon Groups


Rules Questions


I am running a Dwarven Warpriest in a PBP game.

I was wondering if there was any way that I could get a weapon focus on the weapon group axes?

This is so that I can use sacred weapon with things like a boarding axe, and the maulaxe, along with his preferred war axe.

If so, what books would I find the feats needed for that?


Quote:

Martial Versatility (Combat)

You further broaden your study of weapons to encompass multiple similar weapons.
Prerequisites: Fighter level 4th, human.
Benefit: Choose one combat feat you know that applies to a specific weapon (e.g., Weapon Focus). You can use that feat with any weapon within the same weapon group.
Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time it applies to a different feat.

Only thing I know but, unfortunately, it's human only.

Edit: found in Advanced Race Guide


Instead of trying to get Weapon Focus for the Axe Group, you can take Ancestral Weapon Mastery (from Inner Sea Races) to get a bonus version of Weapon Focus that can be moved around among your racial weapons. For a Dwarf with the Weapon Familiarity Racial Trait and proficiency with all Martial Weapons you can, with 10 minutes of practice, transfer that bonus Weapon Focus between any of the following:

* Dwarven Maulaxe (exotic, light, 1d4, 1d6, x3, 10 ft, B or S)
* Battleaxe (martial, one-handed, 1d6, 1d8, x3, S)
* Dwarven Waraxe (exotic, one-handed, 1d8, 1d10, x3, S)
* Dwarven Double Waraxe (exotic, one-handed, 1d8, 1d10, x3, S)
* Dwarven Longaxe (exotic, two-handed, 1d10, 1d12, x3, S, reach)

* Heavy Pick (martial, one-handed, 1d4, 1d6, x4, P)
* Dwarven Boulder Helmet (exotic, light, 1d3, 1d4, x2, B)
* Warhammer (martial, one-handed, 1d6, 1d8, x3, B)
* Dwarven Warhammer (exotic, two-handed, 1d10, 2d6, x3, B, reach)
* Dwarven Dorn-Dergar (exotic, two-handed, 1d8, 1d10, x2, B, reach)


Gisher that is kind of what I was looking at, but the problem, was the 15 minutes time.

I was kind of hoping to find something that I could apply the focus directly to other weapons when I need it like the Martial versatility.

I guess I will have to look into the Ancestral Weapon mastery though, as it seems the closest to what I need.

Unless there is something else I seem to be missing.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

If you play an arsenal chaplain warpriest, you can take the advanced weapon training feat to take the weapon specialist AWT to apply weapon focus on all weapons in a weapon group.


Imbicatus, where can I find the Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest ???


Mokshai wrote:

Imbicatus, where can I find the Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest ???

I notice it's not (yet) on Archives of Nethys, but you can the archetype here. It's from the Weapon Masters handbook.


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Blymurkla wrote:
Mokshai wrote:

Imbicatus, where can I find the Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest ???

I notice it's not (yet) on Archives of Nethys, but you can the archetype here. It's from the Weapon Masters handbook.

incorrect.

Just that it's from molthune and srd doesn't do names. It's region specific.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Cavall wrote:
Blymurkla wrote:
Mokshai wrote:

Imbicatus, where can I find the Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest ???

I notice it's not (yet) on Archives of Nethys, but you can the archetype here. It's from the Weapon Masters handbook.

incorrect.

Just that it's from molthune and srd doesn't do names. It's region specific.

You're absolutely right, thanks =)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

You're welcome. I prefer the archive for using original names.


Imbicatus wrote:
If you play an arsenal chaplain warpriest, you can take the advanced weapon training feat to take the weapon specialist AWT to apply weapon focus on all weapons in a weapon group.

Did we ever get official word on how the Arsenal Chaplain interacts with the Advanced Weapon Training feat? Last I heard there was some ambiguity there.

Like since the AWT feat requires 5 fighter levels, you can only take them with Bonus feats, which is fine, and once per 5 fighter levels (so your 6th, 12th, etc. level bonus feat.)

But a bunch of AWT options refer to a specific weapon group, and what group does the Warpriest have training in? "The set of all weapons the WP has WF in"? "The group that contains the Warpriest's sacred weapon?" "No group at all so anything that refers to weapon groups doesn't apply, they just get the bonus and can use any AWT that doesn't refer to a group?

Last I checked this was ambiguous (to the point where PFS didn't let the Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain take AWT).

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

The weapon training an arsenal chaplain gets is identical to the fighter weapon training, except it only applies to sacred weapons.

So at 5th level, they choose a weapon group. This would theoretically be a weapon you have focus in. So if you are a dwarf and took weapon focus with the war axe, you choose Weapon Training axe. Until you take weapon focus in another axe, the weapon training bonus only applies with the war axe.

Then at 9th level, you choose an additional weapon group, just like the fighter, but again, it only applies to focus weapons. The reason PFS disallows the arsenal chaplain from getting AWT when leveling up is because the 9th level option is a false choice. It would be a dead feature unless you have a different deity favored weapon or spent a feat to take weapon focus in another group. It's completely legal by raw though.

The AWT Feat is not a false choice, because it simply taking a feat for an AWT instead of giving up a weapon training group that does nothing. It's also illegal for PFS, but only because the AR ruling was too broad, and there is a request in to revisit it.


So the archtype is in the weapon masters handbook ?
I guess I missed that on the first pass through the book.

So now what I am asking then, is at 5th, when I get to choose the group, if I choose axes, I can use the sacred weapon choices for all of the axes that I am likely to use ?

I guess I will learn further, by reading the archtype when I get back from work, and have access to my books.

Thank you for the assistance.


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If you have WF: Battleaxe and WF: Greataxe then they both qualify as sacred weapons, and would both benefit from Weapon Training in Axes.

If you have only Weapon Focus for the Greataxe, then only that weapon qualifies as a sacred weapon and only that weapon benefits from Weapon Training.

However, if you take the Advanced Weapon Training option "Weapon Specialist" you would be able to apply your Weapon Focus: Greataxe to all axes, thereby making them all sacred weapons and applying your weapon training to all of them.

At least, that's how I currently think this would work.


Casts Raise Thread

I am wondering if anyone has clarified how the AWT works with the Arsenault Chaplain?

I think it is suppose to work like possible cabbage states. But I am hoping for actual clarification if possible.


My reading of Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest suggests to me that you only get 1 weapon group; it is probably meant to be your Sacred Weapons taken all together. It could be that it applies only to the intersection of your Sacred Weapons with 1 weapon group, which would really hurt . . . .


UnArcaneElection wrote:

My reading of Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest suggests to me that you only get 1 weapon group; it is probably meant to be your Sacred Weapons taken all together. It could be that it applies only to the intersection of your Sacred Weapons with 1 weapon group, which would really hurt . . . .

For me, it's a weapon group that includes all weapons you have a weapon focus in and/or your god's favored weapon. So "Weapon Specialist" would at most give your god's favored weapon Weapon Focus if you picked a weapon other than it for your initial weapon focus.

For the OP: At no point does a Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain have the axe weapon group for Weapon Training. Each Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain has their own unique weapon group based on what they pick with weapon focuses.


If your Dwarven Warpriest worships a Deity whose favorite weapon is axes, then you get to do Sacred Weapon Damage even without taking Weapon Focus. I don't know a lot about Deity choices, but there must be a lot of axe-wielding Dwarven deities.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
If your Dwarven Warpriest worships a Deity whose favorite weapon is axes, then you get to do Sacred Weapon Damage even without taking Weapon Focus. I don't know a lot about Deity choices, but there must be a lot of axe-wielding Dwarven deities.

Axe gods

Angradd/Damerrich/Rovagug/Treerazor/Varg/Verex = greataxe
Haagenti/Sekhmet = battleaxe
Ghenshau/Ithaqua/Immonhiel = handaxe
Pirias = throwing axe
Nulgreth = orc double axe

As to "there must be a lot of axe-wielding Dwarven deities": There is ONE, Angradd. Dwarf deities overwhelmingly pick hammers instead with 5 picking a version of it. Axe is as popular as a staff, light pick or mace as for as deities go.


graystone wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
If your Dwarven Warpriest worships a Deity whose favorite weapon is axes, then you get to do Sacred Weapon Damage even without taking Weapon Focus. I don't know a lot about Deity choices, but there must be a lot of axe-wielding Dwarven deities.

Axe gods

Angradd/Damerrich/Rovagug/Treerazor/Varg/Verex = greataxe
Haagenti/Sekhmet = battleaxe
Ghenshau/Ithaqua/Immonhiel = handaxe
Pirias = throwing axe
Nulgreth = orc double axe

As to "there must be a lot of axe-wielding Dwarven deities": There is ONE, Angradd. Dwarf deities overwhelmingly pick hammers instead with 5 picking a version of it. Axe is as popular as a staff, light pick or mace as for as deities go.

I am surprised that no dwarven deity goes with dwarven waraxe. Also that I don't see an elven deity with an elven curveblade.


RealAlchemy wrote:
graystone wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
If your Dwarven Warpriest worships a Deity whose favorite weapon is axes, then you get to do Sacred Weapon Damage even without taking Weapon Focus. I don't know a lot about Deity choices, but there must be a lot of axe-wielding Dwarven deities.

Axe gods

Angradd/Damerrich/Rovagug/Treerazor/Varg/Verex = greataxe
Haagenti/Sekhmet = battleaxe
Ghenshau/Ithaqua/Immonhiel = handaxe
Pirias = throwing axe
Nulgreth = orc double axe

As to "there must be a lot of axe-wielding Dwarven deities": There is ONE, Angradd. Dwarf deities overwhelmingly pick hammers instead with 5 picking a version of it. Axe is as popular as a staff, light pick or mace as for as deities go.

I am surprised that no dwarven deity goes with dwarven waraxe. Also that I don't see an elven deity with an elven curveblade.

Note when the items in question came out. The elf race book predates core and the dwarf one is just after core. The deities were most likely set before those the curveblade was established. The waraxe is a legacy 3.5 item so I guess they just didn't like it or wanted to be safe about what was included.


Now I've got this vision of a new Elven deity complaining "I don't want to sign up for the curveblade! I want to use a longsword like my mentor Iomedae!"


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UnArcaneElection wrote:

Now I've got this vision of a new Elven deity complaining "I don't want to sign up for the curveblade! I want to use a longsword like my mentor Iomedae!"

"Ugh, this branched spear looks really goofy! The multiple angles ruin the clean lines of my outfit!"

"But it's an ancient weapon of our people and really effective!"
"I don't care. I'm going to get a glaive, because they look better!"


^Speaking of which, does anyone have a link to an official image of an Elven Branched Spear that is legally available online? In the absence of visual information, I am almost inclined to equate it to Earth's Spetum, which for some weird reason didn't make it into Pathfinder, even though it got into 1st Edition AD&D.


dip 3 levels into weapon master fighter for weapon training to qualify for advanced weapon training feat is the only way i can think of


Lady-J wrote:
dip 3 levels into weapon master fighter for weapon training to qualify for advanced weapon training feat is the only way i can think of

Weapon master can't take the Weapon Specialist option.


UnArcaneElection wrote:
^Speaking of which, does anyone have a link to an official image of an Elven Branched Spear that is legally available online? In the absence of visual information, I am almost inclined to equate it to Earth's Spetum, which for some weird reason didn't make it into Pathfinder, even though it got into 1st Edition AD&D.

Good question! I tend to imagine them as having more extra branches than that, but to be fair it's not I have any particular rationale for that.

I get a little weirded out every time I think about them, because adding more spikes to a thing doesn't generally make it more wieldy.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Lucy_Valentine wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
^Speaking of which, does anyone have a link to an official image of an Elven Branched Spear that is legally available online? In the absence of visual information, I am almost inclined to equate it to Earth's Spetum, which for some weird reason didn't make it into Pathfinder, even though it got into 1st Edition AD&D.

Good question! I tend to imagine them as having more extra branches than that, but to be fair it's not I have any particular rationale for that.

I get a little weirded out every time I think about them, because adding more spikes to a thing doesn't generally make it more wieldy.

Look at a Langxian.


Thanks!
Goofy-looking thing, though. Which is a terrible reason to stick with the curve blade, but still.


Here's what I found for Langxian: a Wikipedia article which has no citations, and a drawing (which is quite different from the photo also shown) that looks remarkably like fan art I have seen of an Elven Branched Spear; and a blog article which also has no citations, which has a drawing that is sort of in between the drawing and photo in the Wikipedia article, and describes the Langxian as a defensive weapon of length similar to a European pike (which Pathfinder uses some other name for that I can't remember), not capable of doing much damage on its own (unless poisoned), but used in large numbers to prevent an enemy from closing.


graystone wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
dip 3 levels into weapon master fighter for weapon training to qualify for advanced weapon training feat is the only way i can think of
Weapon master can't take the Weapon Specialist option.

why not? they get weapon training and fighter levels and warpreist levels stack for fighter level requirements i see no reason why they would not be able to take the feat


Lady-J wrote:
graystone wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
dip 3 levels into weapon master fighter for weapon training to qualify for advanced weapon training feat is the only way i can think of
Weapon master can't take the Weapon Specialist option.
why not? they get weapon training and fighter levels and warpreist levels stack for fighter level requirements i see no reason why they would not be able to take the feat

Oh they can take the feat: did you look at the feat though?

"The benefits of a weapon master’s advanced weapon training options apply only to his selected weapon rather than all weapons in the same fighter weapon group, and he can’t select the weapon specialist advanced weapon training option."

The special line disallows that option for the feat for that archetype.


graystone wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
graystone wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
dip 3 levels into weapon master fighter for weapon training to qualify for advanced weapon training feat is the only way i can think of
Weapon master can't take the Weapon Specialist option.
why not? they get weapon training and fighter levels and warpreist levels stack for fighter level requirements i see no reason why they would not be able to take the feat

Oh they can take the feat: did you look at the feat though?

"The benefits of a weapon master’s advanced weapon training options apply only to his selected weapon rather than all weapons in the same fighter weapon group, and he can’t select the weapon specialist advanced weapon training option."

The special line disallows that option for the feat for that archetype.

i thought there was a way to add a few weapons to any weapon training list even restricted ones like weapon master


Lady-J wrote:
graystone wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
graystone wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
dip 3 levels into weapon master fighter for weapon training to qualify for advanced weapon training feat is the only way i can think of
Weapon master can't take the Weapon Specialist option.
why not? they get weapon training and fighter levels and warpreist levels stack for fighter level requirements i see no reason why they would not be able to take the feat

Oh they can take the feat: did you look at the feat though?

"The benefits of a weapon master’s advanced weapon training options apply only to his selected weapon rather than all weapons in the same fighter weapon group, and he can’t select the weapon specialist advanced weapon training option."

The special line disallows that option for the feat for that archetype.

i thought there was a way to add a few weapons to any weapon training list even restricted ones like weapon master

It wouldn't matter if you could, the feat specifically restricts the weapon master from taking the weapon specialist option. As such, any level and abilities in that class archetype don't count for that option. You would NEED something that specifically and explicitly nullifies THAT statement in the feat to have it work.


graystone wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
graystone wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
graystone wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
dip 3 levels into weapon master fighter for weapon training to qualify for advanced weapon training feat is the only way i can think of
Weapon master can't take the Weapon Specialist option.
why not? they get weapon training and fighter levels and warpreist levels stack for fighter level requirements i see no reason why they would not be able to take the feat

Oh they can take the feat: did you look at the feat though?

"The benefits of a weapon master’s advanced weapon training options apply only to his selected weapon rather than all weapons in the same fighter weapon group, and he can’t select the weapon specialist advanced weapon training option."

The special line disallows that option for the feat for that archetype.

i thought there was a way to add a few weapons to any weapon training list even restricted ones like weapon master
It wouldn't matter if you could, the feat specifically restricts the weapon master from taking the weapon specialist option. As such, any level and abilities in that class archetype don't count for that option. You would NEED something that specifically and explicitly nullifies THAT statement in the feat to have it work.

ah got some of the abilities mixed up one i was thinking of was the one that gives warpriest sacred weapon damage to each weapon to each weapon oops then scratch weapon master you will need a 5 level dip into normal fighter


Lady-J wrote:
graystone wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
graystone wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
dip 3 levels into weapon master fighter for weapon training to qualify for advanced weapon training feat is the only way i can think of
Weapon master can't take the Weapon Specialist option.
why not? they get weapon training and fighter levels and warpreist levels stack for fighter level requirements i see no reason why they would not be able to take the feat

Oh they can take the feat: did you look at the feat though?

"The benefits of a weapon master’s advanced weapon training options apply only to his selected weapon rather than all weapons in the same fighter weapon group, and he can’t select the weapon specialist advanced weapon training option."

The special line disallows that option for the feat for that archetype.

i thought there was a way to add a few weapons to any weapon training list even restricted ones like weapon master

To be fair, the whole idea of the Weapon Master archetype is "I will master the longsword* and only the longsword!" Having the ability to get better with other weapons is kind of diluting that concept.

* Replace longsword with your weapon of choice.


Lady-J wrote:
ah got some of the abilities mixed up one i was thinking of was the one that gives warpriest sacred weapon damage to each weapon to each weapon oops then scratch weapon master you will need a 5 level dip into normal fighter

Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain. A 5 level dip in it would work.

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