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The Umpteenth Dragon Disciple Attempt


Advice


I have been playing around with Dragon Disciples for a long time trying to find one I'm happy with. I think I'm finally getting close and wanted to see what you folks think about this version.
This a melee focused build. I could make it more a switch-hitter (caster/melee) by changing 3 of the bloodrager levels to sorcerer, dropping the strength, and increasing the charisma.

The magic items are just a rough approximation. I just threw a few on for seeing what it would look like.

Has the full 10 levels of DD powers.
Has the spells of an 8th level sorcerer, but cast at 10th level (due to Magical Knack).
Has the full sorcerer draconic bloodline powers of 15th level (due to Robe of Arcane Heritage).
Has the bloodrager draconic bloodline powers of 14th level, but operate at 16th level (due to Amulet of the Blooded).
Has +11 natural armor when raging and +7 natural armor when not.
Can use claws and bite even when raging or not.
Raging, power attack, natural attacks are:
.....Bite +16, d8+21+d6 acid
.....2 Claws +16/+16, d8+14+d6 acid
Only 15 rounds of rage a day (a bit of weakness there I admit)
The oracle VMC Shattered Mind curse will eventually make him mostly immune to mind effects. And it gives a couple other nifty abilities.
Similarly the Deep Earth eldritch heritage is pretty thematic with a copper dragon and both Tremor and Tremor Sense are useful.

Focused Bloodline Rager:

Male human (Vudrani) bloodrager (rageshaper, untouchable rager) 4/dragon disciple 10/sorcerer 1/oracle* (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 15, 84, 85)
CG Medium humanoid (human)
Hero Points 1
Init +6; Senses blindsense 60 ft., tremorsense 30 ft.; Perception +21
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 27, touch 12, flat-footed 25 (+8 armor, +2 Dex, +7 natural)
hp 161 (15 HD; 1d6+4d10+10d12+62)
Fort +16, Ref +10, Will +10 (-2 vs. Charm or Compulsion effects if there's a promise of wealth or power); +4 competence bonus vs. mind-affecting effects, +2 to save vs. mind-affecting effects
Defensive Abilities uncanny dodge; Immune charm, compulsion; Resist draconic resistance, acid 10
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 50 ft., fly 90 ft. (average); dragon wings
Melee +1 furious adamantine earth breaker +18/+13/+8 (2d6+10/×3) or
. . +1 mithral boarding axe +18/+13/+8 (1d6+7/×3)
Ranged +1 adaptive greenwood composite longbow +14/+9/+4 (1d8+7/×3)
Special Attacks bloodrage (15 rounds/day), breath weapon (15d6 acid, 60 ft. line, DC 20, 2/day), breath weapon (16d6 acid, 60 ft. line, DC 21, 3/day), claws, claws (2, 1d6 plus 1d6 acid, treated as magic weapons, 6 rounds/day), dragon bite, tremor
Dragon Disciple Spell-Like Abilities (CL 10th; concentration +11)
. . 2/day—dragon form
Oracle Spell-Like Abilities (CL 15th; concentration +16)
. . At will—orison
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 10th; concentration +11)
. . 4th (3/day)—fear (DC 17), communal protection from energy[UC]
. . 3rd (6/day)—fly, major image (DC 16), vampiric touch
. . 2nd (7/day)—pilfering hand[UC], raiment of command (DC 15), resist energy, see invisibility
. . 1st (7/day)—corrosive touch[UM], mage armor, shield, true strike, unseen servant, vanish[APG] (DC 14)
. . 0 (at will)—acid splash, detect magic, detect poison, disrupt undead, light, message, prestidigitation, spark[APG] (DC 13)
. . Bloodline Bedrock, Draconic, Draconic
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 22, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 7, Cha 16
Base Atk +11; CMB +17; CMD 29
Feats Blind-fight, Eldritch Heritage[UM], Eschew Materials, Improved Eldritch Heritage[UM], Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Raging Vitality[APG], Skill Focus (Knowledge [dungeoneering]), Skill Focus (Perception), Toughness
Traits blood of dragons, latent psion (human - vudra), magical knack
Skills Acrobatics +19 (+27 to jump), Appraise +0, Bluff +7, Climb +15, Diplomacy +10, Escape Artist +5, Fly +19, Handle Animal +7, Heal -4, Intimidate +21, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +7, Linguistics +14, Perception +21, Ride +5, Sense Motive -4, Sleight of Hand +21, Spellcraft +4, Survival +0, Swim +9, Use Magic Device +7
Languages Aklo, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc, Sahaugin, Sphinx, Terran, Treant, Vudrani, Yeti
SQ bestial aspect, bloodline arcana (energy spells that match bloodline energy deal +1 damage per die), fast movement, hero points, mystery (stone), oracle's curse (shattered psyche), power-hungry, revelations (earth glide, steelbreaker skin), wings
Combat Gear cold iron arrows (50); Other Gear +2 mithral agile breastplate[APG], +1 adaptive greenwood composite longbow (+2 Str), +1 furious adamantine earth breaker[UE], +1 mithral boarding axe, amulet of the blooded (draconic)[ACG], boots of striding and springing, cloak of resistance +4, gloves of larceny[UE], ring of ancestral blood magic[ACG], ring of feather falling, robe of arcane heritage[APG], 100 pp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Acid Claws & Acid Bite (6 rounds/day) (Su) As a free action, gain 2 claw attacks (+1d6 Acid) that bypass DR as magic weapons. Bite attack deals 1d6 damage.
Acid Claws (Ex) 2 Magic Claw attacks deal 1d8 damage + 1d6 Acid
Bedrock (grants DR 8/Adamantine) Your earth magic is more defensive than offensive.

Associated Bloodline: Deep Earth.

Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell of the summoning subschool, the creatures summoned gain DR/adamantine equal to 1/2 your sorcerer leve
Bestial Aspect (increased polymorphed damage) (Su) Increase dam of nat attack granted by polymorph spell.
Blind-Fight Re-roll misses because of concealment, other benefits.
Blindsense (60 feet) (Ex) Sense things and creatures without seeing them.
Bloodline Arcana: Draconic (Ex) +1 damage per die for [Acid] spells.
Bloodrage (15 rounds/day) (Su) +4 Str, +6 Con, +2 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Breath Weapon (15d6 acid, 60 ft. line, 2/day, DC 20) (Su) As a standard action, deal energy damage in area (Ref half).
Breath Weapon (16d6 acid, 60 ft. line, 3/day, DC 21) (Su) As a standard action, deal energy damage in area (Ref half).
Draconic Resistance (Ex) Gain Acid resistance 4 and +10 natural armor.
Dragon Bite (Ex) Bite atacks deal 1d6 damage
Dragon Form (II, 2/day) (Sp) Use Form of the Dragon II as a spell-like ability 2/day
Dragon Wings (Su) Gain flight when raging
Earth Glide (9 feet, 9 minutes/day) (Su) Move through unworked stone at your normal movement speed.
Energy Resistance, Acid (10) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Acid attacks.
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Fast Movement +10 (Ex) +10 feet to speed, unless heavily loaded.
Fly (90 feet, Average) You can fly!
Hero Points Hero Points can be spent at any time to grant a variety of bonuses.
Immunity to Charm You are immune to charm effects.
Immunity to Compulsion You are immune to compulsion.
Orison (Guidance, At will) (Sp) Cast selected orison at will.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Power-Hungry -2 vs. Will saves if the effect's creator promises wealth or power
Raging Vitality +2 CON while raging, Rage does not end if you become unconscious.
Shattered Psyche Your mind is crowded with dozens of voices, fragmented snippets of your past lives. You take a -2 penalty on all Intelligence-based skill checks, Wisdom-based skill checks, and concentration checks. You gain a +4 competence bonus on saving throws mad
Steelbreaker Skin (9 HP, 9 min., 1/day) (Su) Weapons striking you take 9 damage. If the weapon is destroyed, it deals no damage.
Tremor (CMB +22, 6/day) (Sp) At 1st level, as a standard action, you can cause the ground to shake beneath a single creature within 30 feet, functioning as a trip maneuver using your sorcerer level plus your Charisma modifier in place of your CMB. You can use this ability a numb
Tremorsense (30 feet) Sense creatures and objects in contact with ground or water.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex) Retain DEX bonus to AC when flat-footed.
Wings (Su) Can sprout wings and gain a 60' Fly speed with average maneuverability.

Silver Crusade

Not sure how you are getting that you will have 14th and 16th level bloodline powers. Dragon Disciple levels only raise 1 bloodline (Either your bloodrager or your sorcerer, not both at once, and would not effect your eldritch heritage at all)

Unless you are playing with homebrew rules, and your GM is allowing it to work on all your bloodlines at once.


Vexemrorium Iorvonith wrote:

Not sure how you are getting that you will have 14th and 16th level bloodline powers. Dragon Disciple levels only raise 1 bloodline (Either your bloodrager or your sorcerer, not both at once, and would not effect your eldritch heritage at all)

Unless you are playing with homebrew rules, and your GM is allowing it to work on all your bloodlines at once.

This is correct it will only raise one of the two classes Bloodline. Not both.

You like the Bloodrager Brute DD builds. Here is my personal one that is going into the guide I have made and will release:

DD Bloodrager:

The Coup-de-grace Killer
Archetype:(Optional) Steel blooded

Race: Human
Alternative Racial: Focused Study

Point Buy:
Str: 19, Dex: 12, Con: 15, Int: 7, Wis: 10, Cha: 12 (+1 to Con @ 4 and rest +1 STR)

Traits:
Community Minded
Dangerously Curious

Bloodline:
Draconic (Pick an Element you Like...I recommend Fire or Lightning as you can get Deliquescent Gloves for Acid Damage to your unarmed attacks.)

Bloodrager 7/Dragon Disciple 8/Bloodrager 5

Feats:
Human: Skill Focus- Stealth (Covers a Prereq)
1 HD: Arcane Strike
3 HD: Raging Vitality (Boosts Con for Paralyze DC)
5 HD: Eldritch Heritage- Ghoul (Claws) ((Level 7 Paralyze on Claws))
6 HD (Bloodline): Power Attack
7 HD: Cornugon Smash (-2 to saves...with cruel…-4 on saves)
Human 8: Skill Focus- Intimidate
9 HD: Iron Will
9 HD (Bloodline): Toughness, Improved Initiative, or Blind-Fight
11 HD: Improved Eldritch Heritage- Ghoul- Ravenous Frenzy (Haste...YES!!!)
12 HD (Bloodline): Toughness, Improved Initiative, or Blind-Fight
13 HD: Bloodied Arcane Strike
15 HD: Raging Brutality
15 HD (Bloodline): Toughness, Improved Initiative, or Blind-Fight

You might find something you like in it for some inspiration. The build centers around Paralyzing your victim and delivering the Coup or having an Ally deliver a Coup while you continue to claw your way across the battlefield.

I also have a pure caster Dragon Disciple Build you can steal some Inspiration from as well that wont be in the guides but I have posted before.

Caster DD:

Human 20 point buy
Str: 10, Dex: 14, Con: 12, Int: 10, Wis: 10, Cha: 19

Draconic Sorcerer 7/ Dragon Disciple 8

Feats:
Human: Favored PrC- Dragon Disciple
1: Spell Focus- Evocation
3: Craft Wondrous Item
5: Intensify Spell
7: Prestigious Spell Caster- D.D
7: (Bloodline Feat)- Bloodline Mutation- Havoc
9: Spell Pen
9: (Bloodline) Improved Initiative
11: Prestigious Spell Caster- D.D
12: (Bloodline) Toughness, Power Attack, or Great Fortitude ((You Pick))
13: Dazing Spell or Empower Spell ((You Pick control vs Damage))
15: (Bloodline) Quicken Spell
15: Spell Perfection or ((Your Choice))

I hope something gives you the inspiration to further your Dragon Disciple love. It is one of my favorite PrC because I'm obsessed with dragons myself.

Silver Crusade

You can also click on my name to see my build, it is for PFS play, so I only planned it out to 12...but it works great. I play it as a buff-rager, not a blaster...but it would be easy enough to swap spells around, and tack on magical knack instead of one of the traits I used. I went for the hard hitting, intimidation and cornugon smash build with a cruel weapon...debuff them to the ground while smashing their faces in.


Louise Bishop wrote:
Vexemrorium Iorvonith wrote:

Not sure how you are getting that you will have 14th and 16th level bloodline powers. Dragon Disciple levels only raise 1 bloodline (Either your bloodrager or your sorcerer, not both at once, and would not effect your eldritch heritage at all)

Unless you are playing with homebrew rules, and your GM is allowing it to work on all your bloodlines at once.

This is correct it will only raise one of the two classes Bloodline. Not both. ...

Are you sure of that? I have seen several builds on the forums and a few in PFS play based on the theory that it progressed all bloodlines. One even used crossblooded sorcerer and crossblooded bloodrager. I don't remember anyone showing or even implying a rule saying it didn't work.


I've only ever seen the interpretation that it does one bloodline, could you look me to one of these other ones?


Hmm... I will see if I can find them, but that was quite a while ago.


So here's my take on a brute Dragon disciple build. He's been my character in a casual campaign I've been playing for a while. I won't say there was no planing behind the build, but his martial prowess came somewhat as a surprise to everyone. I think the combination of lenient GM and access to a personal crafter have worsened the problem.

Rognak son of Ragnor:

Race: Human

stats while raging(ish, I can't find the character sheet and can't remember my base stats, sorry):

STR 28
DEX 12
CON 22
INT 7
WIS 14
CHA 14

Traits:
Auspicious Tattoo
Something (can't remember if we even got a second trait)

Bloodline:
Draconic(Gold)

Bloodrager 5/Dragon Disciple 3

Feats:
1H: Improved unarmed strike
1: Weapon focus(claws)
3: Feral combat training(claws)
5: Dragon style
7: Arcane strike
7dd:Power attack

Magical gear:
Amulet of mighty fists(keen, furious),

Dragonbone Breastplate +2,

belt of physical perfection +2,

seducers bane bracelet
- (to keep those pesky casters out of our poor little roidragers mind)

cloak of resistance +1,
ring of protection +1,

Tattoo of clarity
- (basically a slot less headband of mental prowess +1 to top off a base Cha and Wis of 13),

Blood reservoir of physical prowess
- (lets you fill it by taking 4 points of con dmg and spend the pool to receive 8 to a physical stat until end of turn, at least until I am corrected in my misuse of it)

Offense:
Bite +16 (1d8 + 26), 2x Claw + 17 (1d8 + 26 (first hit) 1d8 + 17 (later hits)

Having a boatload of strength and by (perhaps) exploiting dragon style, you get 1.5 times strength on both bite and strength in addition to a -1/3 trade on your power attacks and with arcane strike the build is left with quite a bit of damage.

Spells are mostly used for self buffing, barkskin and iron skin working well with natural bonuses from bloodlines.


My take is a little different...

Oath of Vengeance Paladin 4/Scaled Fist UC Monk 1/Draconic Sorcerer 5/Dragon Disciple 10

Admittedly you never gain 8th level spells, but this grants you Smite Evil usable quite a few times per day because you have a minimum of 11 uses of Lay on Hands which can convert into another 5 uses of Smite Evil. Sure it doesn't give you much of a damage buff but +9 to your AC and to your attack roll is nothing to sneeze at. Plus, Charisma to all saving throws means you rock some hefty defenses. Scaled fist buffs your AC, and allows you to take advantage of Mage Armor and Shield as spells.

Since you still get 15 levels of Sorcerer (with Prestidgous Spellcaster) you still can cast 7th level spells and you have the full advantages gained from hitting level 15 (90ft fly speed and max Natural armor)

Plus, 5 levels spent into full BAB classes combined with 5 in half BAB and 10 in partial BAB means at level 20 you have 14 BAB which is only 1 off a traditional 3/4ths bab class and none of them are as Charisma-centric as you are.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Keep in mind the Favored Prestige Class and Prestigious Caster feats. If you have the feats to spare, all 10 of your Dragon Disciple levels can advance your spellcasting.

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