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Magic Shag


Homebrew


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I'm trying to create a new kind of consumable magic item referred to universally as shag (as in Shag). Shag would function similarly to a potion, in that no Use Magic Device check is required to activate the spell stored within. The difference is that while a potion requires a Standard action to imbibe, imbibing a "charge" of Shag requires more time. I want higher level spells to be available to incorporate into Shag, and I want it to be less expensive to craft.

Thoughts:
I want a successful Craft (Shag) check to yield 1 ounce of Shag, but I can't find a general cigarettes-to-tobacco ratio to estimate how many "charges" 1 ounce holds. Can someone help me out with this?

For the extra time needed to imbibe, I was thinking 1 minute. Maybe a higher level spell requires more "charges" before the effect manifests, making truly powerful spell effects take more and more time, and cost more and more gold.

Due to the ease of use (assuming out-of-combat), and the fact that I want Shag to be inexpensive and require no Use Magic Device checks, I was thinking of adding an effect opposite of Maximize

Minimized wrote:
All variable and numeric effects of a spell activated from Shag are treated as if the user rolled 1's for them. For example: someone imbibing a typical Shag of Cure Light Wounds would receive 2 points of healing, as if they rolled a 1 on the d8.

I know that the curing process for tobacco can take quite a while (typically 4-8 weeks for cigarette tobacco). This crafting process is operating under the assumption that the tobacco was already crafted prior to becoming Magic Shag - having tobacco simply be one of the crafting reagents. Maybe making Magic Shag from scratch (adding 1 month to the craft time) would negate the Minimize effect?

What might the final cost be for crafting? This will largely depend on how many "charges" 1 dose yields. I'll estimate 20. So, you're basically getting 20 potions that require 1 minute to imbibe, and have a minimized effect. I'd consider the minute to imbibe to cut the cost in half, and the minimized effect to cut it in half again, meaning each "charge" costs 1/4 of a potion times 20 for a total of [spell level * caster level * 250 gp]. This lines up relatively well with Wands, which are about 40% more expensive per charge (require a Use magic Device check, but the spell effects aren't Minimized, and activation requires a Standard action).

I'd love some group support on this. I feel like Shag could make a great, flavorful addition to certain monster loots and hordes, as well as a fun new way to create magical effects. It also opens the door for magical pipes that augment magic Shag, and other smoking accessories. Any feedback on the concept itself, suggestions to make the mechanics more balanced, etc. are greatly appreciated!


Does it need to be a magic item? Because I can see it work pretty well as an alchemical item instead. These tend to be cheaper and somewhat weaker, so if you want weaker effect it can work reasonably well.

How strong effects do you want to put in this form?


Alchemical isn't out of the question. I'm imagining the process being similar to brewing a potion, which is pretty much Pathfinder's Alchemy, but they're still considered magic items, if I'm not mistaken.

I'm thinking up to 6th-level spells, but that might be a bit much. Maybe 4th or 5th.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

I am very disappointed in this thread. I came here expecting other things.


Hmm, it could be a wondrous item, the way the incenses and some elixirs are. Granted, they take action a lot slower, but you could have something to fit the niche. However, for minor effects I am more partial to non-magical alchemical items.

Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:
I am very disappointed in this thread. I came here expecting other things.

Go right, then third door to the left, there is a Companion to the Lonely discussion there :)


Cuup wrote:
I want higher level spells to be available to incorporate into Shag, and I want it to be less expensive to craft.

We're not talking about alchemical items here.

You are really looking at rolled cigarettes, not pipe smoke? Why? The latter has sooo much more literary support, and frankly, it smells better to non-users!

Cuup wrote:
All variable and numeric effects of a spell activated from Shag are treated as if the user rolled 1's for them. For example: someone imbibing a typical Shag of Cure Light Wounds would receive 2 points of healing, as if they rolled a 1 on the d8.

Is this going to be dirt cheap? It had better be, if people are supposed to waste their gold on it. I'd prefer something like,

"All variable effects of a spell activated from Shag are treated as two dice types lower," turning a CSW into 1d4+5.

Or "The CL of all spells activated from Shag is reduced by 2 (minimum 0)," turning CSW into 1d8+3. (In this case, there would need to be a minimum CL on the feat needed to craft this stuff of at least 3.)

{EtA: I was going to give you URLs, but the connection farted. I do remember the estimate from WHO of 30 marijuana joints/ounce. And from Wiki of 30 tobacco ciggies/ounce, as well -- IF I did the necessary math right, for the amounts from 1960, before the manufacturers went on a major adulteration craze. Google "How much x in a joint/cigarette." Pipe bowl contents was harder; the best I could find were informal user estimates that amount to 2 cigs per "group 4" bowl. And a smoking time of at least 10 minutes.

And still, significant cancer rates, especially of the tongue and larynx. (We all know about cig cancer, right?) Let's hope I can post this time...}


What if using Shag is an untrained UMD skill check DC 10+X?

Then a pipe is a masterwork smoking tool (+2).

All spells on the Alchemists list, functioning like extracts but at reduced effect (half CL)?

With interesting side-effects for failing the DC by 5 or 10...


bitter lily wrote:
Cuup wrote:
I want higher level spells to be available to incorporate into Shag, and I want it to be less expensive to craft.

We're not talking about alchemical items here.

You are really looking at rolled cigarettes, not pipe smoke? Why? The latter has sooo much more literary support, and frankly, it smells better to non-users!

Cuup wrote:
All variable and numeric effects of a spell activated from Shag are treated as if the user rolled 1's for them. For example: someone imbibing a typical Shag of Cure Light Wounds would receive 2 points of healing, as if they rolled a 1 on the d8.

Is this going to be dirt cheap? It had better be, if people are supposed to waste their gold on it. I'd prefer something like,

"All variable effects of a spell activated from Shag are treated as two dice types lower," turning a CSW into 1d4+5.

Or "The CL of all spells activated from Shag is reduced by 2 (minimum 0)," turning CSW into 1d8+3. (In this case, there would need to be a minimum CL on the feat needed to craft this stuff of at least 3.)

{EtA: I was going to give you URLs, but the connection farted. I do remember the estimate from WHO of 30 marijuana joints/ounce. And from Wiki of 30 tobacco ciggies/ounce, as well -- IF I did the necessary math right, for the amounts from 1960, before the manufacturers went on a major adulteration craze. Google "How much x in a joint/cigarette." Pipe bowl contents was harder; the best I could find were informal user estimates that amount to 2 cigs per "group 4" bowl. And a smoking time of at least 10 minutes.

And still, significant cancer rates, especially of the tongue and larynx. (We all know about cig cancer, right?) Let's hope I can post this time...}

Thanks for the insight and passion! I'm a tobacco pipe smoker myself, and I agree that pipes are much more iconic in fantasy settings; I was just using cigarettes as a standard measurement; pipe bows vary by a lot, and you can put as much or as little tobacco as you want, based on how long you plan to smoke, but cigarettes are usually a standard size and density, which makes it easier to determine how much tobacco represents a "charge" reduced from the total 1oz dose. I appreciate the numbers, thank you very much!

I want them to be cheap, but not dirt cheap. other spell effects like Invisibility, Tiny Hut/Rope Trick/etc., and Fly suddenly become available too easily if they're affordable by any commoner, even if they do take a minute to activate.

Rainzax - Thanks for the input, but I want to make this as easy as smoking a pipe or cigarette, just like imbibing a potion is as easy as drinking water, so I definitely don't want UMD to be a part of it. Having it be exclusive to the Alchemist is worth merit, though, I'll give it some thought.


rainzax wrote:

What if using Shag is an untrained UMD skill check DC 10+X?

Then a pipe is a masterwork smoking tool (+2).

All spells on the Alchemists list, functioning like extracts but at reduced effect (half CL)?

With interesting side-effects for failing the DC by 5 or 10...

It doesn't have to be UMD for the other ideas here to function well. I second using the Alchemist list at half-CL.

Cuup, your Minimize doesn't rein in Fly at all, but completely nerfs a Cure. Too little restriction on the one hand, too much on the other.

And I still advocate talking about pipe smoking and a 10-minute period for spells to become effective. Much more flavorful, truly. You could call it 15 pipefuls per ounce, or 12 if that's prettier. Less isn't effective, and more is just wasteful.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

*looks in*

This was really not what I was expecting.


I imagine followers of Arshea, Calistria, and Caydan are all about Magic Shag.


I'm hiding this topic, because it's insensitive to those who are allergic to tobacco smoke and steam. Don't Direct Message me.


bitter lily wrote:
rainzax wrote:

What if using Shag is an untrained UMD skill check DC 10+X?

Then a pipe is a masterwork smoking tool (+2).

All spells on the Alchemists list, functioning like extracts but at reduced effect (half CL)?

With interesting side-effects for failing the DC by 5 or 10...

It doesn't have to be UMD for the other ideas here to function well. I second using the Alchemist list at half-CL.

Cuup, your Minimize doesn't rein in Fly at all, but completely nerfs a Cure. Too little restriction on the one hand, too much on the other.

And I still advocate talking about pipe smoking and a 10-minute period for spells to become effective. Much more flavorful, truly. You could call it 15 pipefuls per ounce, or 12 if that's prettier. Less isn't effective, and more is just wasteful.

OK, so let's go with Alchemist Extract list at half CL (minimum 1) for now, and a 10 minute smoke to make it work.

With those limitations, let's talk about price and Craft DC's. If we're going with 15 charges per does (and to be clear, when I say charges per dose, I'm talking about uses per ounce, which can be divvied up, saved, or smoked individually at any point), how about a cost of [CL*spell level*100], which makes one charge of a 1st-level Extract at CL 1 cost 7 gp. I'm assuming the CL used in the price calculation is NOT halved like the effect's CL is. I've never done much crafting in Pathfinder, aside from making Scrolls as a Wizard. I can't find craft DC's for magic items in the Craft rules, the Potion rules, or the Brew Potion feat. Are there just no craft DC's for magic items in Pathfinder? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Speaking of the Brew Potion feat, who should be able to make Magic Shag? Do you need to take a feat? Do Alchemists get the feat for free? Is it exclusively an Alchemist thing with no feat?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Sorry... I saw the title and was thinking of something else entirely.

Or maybe this.


I'm sorry to have backed off from this thread. Unfortunately, I am ill with vertigo right now. I have been unable to look at gaming things or spend time with reading/typing on the screen since Tuesday the 20th. I hope that treatment will be successful next week.

I'll come back!


Feel better, Lily!


Hey, I forgot about this thread! Here's my final draft (Version 1.0) for Magic Shag. Let me know what you think!

Magic Shag
Smoking tobacco that has been infused with an Extract from the Alchemist Formulae list is called Magic Shag. 1 batch of Magic Shag contains 15 doses. These doses can be divided up in any number of manners without losing their potency, but enough tobacco must be used to last for a 10-minute smoke, or no magical effect occurs, and the portion used is wasted. The price of 1 batch of Magic Shag is equal to the level of the spell x the creator's CL x 100. If the extract or spell has an expensive material component, the cost is added to each charge. Extract effects manifest at half the Caster Level utilized in crafting the Magic Shag (minimum CL of 1). The imbiber is automatically the target of the magical effect, and no other creatures can benefit from it.

Physical Description: 1 batch of Magic Shag weighs one ounce. Magic Shag is typically cut into flakes or ribbons of tobacco. [Armor Class? Hardness/HP? Break DC?

Activation: Imbibing a dose of Magic Shag requires no special skill check or concentration. To activate Magic Shag, the imbiber must roll the tobacco into a cigarette or pack it into a pipe bowl, and smoke the tobacco like normal for 10 uninterrupted minutes. Other forms of smoking can be utilized, as well as chewing it. These minutes must be spent in general inactivity (anything that would allow a character to also smoke a pipe or cigar is generally acceptable).

Crafting Feat:
Alchemists receive this feat for free. Other classes may take this feat, and use their own spells, but the spells must also appear on the Alchemist Formulae List.

Cure Shag (Item Creation)
You can add magical effects to tobacco through an alchemical process.

Prerequisite: Caster Level 3rd

Benefit:You can create Magic Shag from any Extract you know (or spell that is also found on the Alchemist Formulae List, though the spell can be no higher than 6th-level) and that targets one or more creatures or objects. Curing Magic Shag takes 2 hours if its base price is 250 gp or less. Otherwise, it takes 1 day for each 1,000 gp in its base price. When you create Magic Shag, you set the Caster Level, which must be a sufficient level to brew the extract or cast the spell, and no higher than your Caster Level. You must spend half the base cost in raw materials, which includes pre-cured, mundane tobacco.

You can add 1 month to the crafting time and double the base cost by curing the mundane tobacco and adding the Extract or Spell at the same time. This will make the magical effects of the Magic Shag manifest at the Caster Level you set during crafting, instead of half the Caster Level. It will also halve the time required for activation (which effectively doubles the number of doses in a batch).

When you create Magic Shag, you must make any choices you would normally make when imbibing the Extract or casting the Spell. Whoever smokes the Magic Shag is the target.


Campfire Pipe

Aura Faint Divination; CL 5th
Slot -; Price10,000 gp; Weight 2lbs

Description
This coal-black pipe is made from briar that has been cut to look like a burnt-out firewood log. This magical pipe is designed to be smoked in conjunction with a Campfire Wall spell. The user must smoke the pipe for 10 minutes within the radius of a Campfire Wall spell. If the tobacco smoked is Magic Shag, the usual effects of the Magic Shag occur as normal. After 10 minutes of smoking the Campfire Pipe, the user may select one side of the barrier (90 degrees) to be see-through from the inside of the barrier. This effect remains in place until the Campfire Wall spell ends.

Construction Requirements
Craft Wondrous Item, Campfire Wall, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance; Cost 5,000 gp


Secondhand Smoke

School Transmutation; Level Alchemist 2, Bard 2, Cleric 3, Inquisitor 3, Medium 2, Mesmerist 2, Psychic 3, Ranger 2, Shaman 3, Sorcerer/Wizard 3, Witch 3

Casting Time 1 Standard Action
Components V, S

Range Personal
Targets You
Duration 10 minutes

This spell preserves the magical effects of Magic Shag after you've exhaled it, allowing your choice of a number of additional creatures equal to the Magic Shag's CL within 10' of you to also gain the Shag's effects. You must be the one to smoke the Magic Shag for this spell to work. The secondary targets must be able to inhale your secondhand smoke in order to benefit from this spell.


When I saw the title of this thread I wondered how someone'd get magic s*x through Paizos rules and conditions. The other meanings, a (magic) thick carpet or a (magic, again) New Zealand seabird seemed unlikely. I had no idea there was a fourth meaning.

From what I can see it looks like a cheaper potion (4/15 the cost per use) which takes 5-10 minutes to use, can use personal-range spells and 4th-6th level ones, and can be shared with others via a spell.

That could be a niche with non-combat healing spells like Restoration. I'm just wondering what other effects there are on the alchemist list which might be useful if you have to take 5 or 10 minutes peacefully smoking to cast them. What sort of thing did you have in mind?

The text could do with a little tidying-up around the caster level/half caster level bit. I think I know what you mean but I'm not absolutely certain. Also use the word 'use', 'charge' or 'dose', not all three.


Thanks for the feedback! I know it's an unfortunate name, but "Magic Tobacco" just didn't sound right to me; "Magic Shag" was the cleanest name I could think of - as far as being short and simple. I'm not against renaming it, if someone can think of something that fits equally well - not that the title of the thread would change haha

Healing spells would certainly be the most common use. Other uses are less obvious, but anyone not pressed for time or with enough foreknowledge of an upcoming obstacle could make use of anything from Invisibility to Fly to Aid. A low-magic party could buy some cheap Arcane Eye Shag, or a group could smoke some Freedom of Movement Shag before going underwater.

For the caster level bit, let's say a 6th-level Alchemist is making some Cure Moderate Wounds Shag. He can set his caster level as low as 4th-level, so he does. This Shag costs him [4 (CL) * 2 (spell level) * 100 =] 800 gp. When imbibed, a dose of this Shag will heal 2d8+2 hp (NOT 2d8+4 hp), because it works at half the set caster level. Alternatively, Invisibility Shag set at the same CL would last 2 minutes instead of 4. I felt this helped balance the low cost.

My use of the word charge was an unfortunate copy/paste oversight from the wand crafting rules. Otherwise, I did take care to keep the language consistent. Of course, they all mean the same thing; I just didn't like using the term "charge", because you could literally hand someone a "charge" of Magic Shag and they could keep it indefinitely - does it still feel like a "charge" after that? I thought no, they're more like doses.


Dose works I guess. 'Use' was upthread before your recent posts, never mind that. I might use a different word if I was writing this, 'measure' perhaps, but then I probably wouldn't ever have written it - I'm not a smoker and none of my friends are either, the idea would be really unattractive. Especially the secondhand smoke spell. You and your friends must be different.


No worries, we're all snowflakes here :)

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