Does Ill Omen actually do anything?

[AntipodeF]

(abridged; meaning not lost)
"You afflict the target with bad luck. On the next d20 roll the target makes, it must roll twice and take the less favorable result. A target who can speak and has at least one free hand and who is aware of the spell and its effects (such as from a Spellcraft check to identify the spell as it is cast) can negate one reroll by spending a move action to utter a brief prayer or good luck charm to appease the spirits of ill fortune."

Can the target simply negate the spell by making a reactive Spellcraft check to identify it? Spellcraft takes a d20 roll, after all....

[Forseti]

The reactive Spellcraft check is made while observing a spell being cast, so it's too early to count for the spell's effect.

[Matthew Downie]

The "Spellcraft check to identify the spell as it is cast" would take place before the effect of the spell kicks in.

And unless you passed the Spellcraft check, you don't know what the spell is, so you wouldn't be know to make an unnecessary skill check.

[Ectar]

Even if identified, it takes a move action to negate the spell x which means no full attack actions.

[Matthew Downie]

It takes a move action to negate it without rolling dice. But if you know it's there, presumably you could make a Knowledge check as a free action or something like that, and then it wouldn't affect anything else.

Whether your GM would let you get away with that is another question.

[ryric]

The intent of the spell is clearly to affect a meaningful d20 roll, or to use up a move action. So I'd hold to that. Now, if a witch casts ill omen and then their friend follows it up with a SoS spell, the Spellcraft roll on the second spell is indeed meaningful so it could use up the reroll. The spell gets a lot better once it affects two rolls at 5th level.

[Ascalaphus]

Keep in mind you can only make Spellcraft checks if you're trained. So Ill Omen is better against dumb peasants than against savvy wizards.

As it should be.

[Murdock Mudeater]

AntipodeF wrote:

(abridged; meaning not lost)

"You afflict the target with bad luck. On the next d20 roll the target makes, it must roll twice and take the less favorable result. A target who can speak and has at least one free hand and who is aware of the spell and its effects (such as from a Spellcraft check to identify the spell as it is cast) can negate one reroll by spending a move action to utter a brief prayer or good luck charm to appease the spirits of ill fortune."

Can the target simply negate the spell by making a reactive Spellcraft check to identify it? Spellcraft takes a d20 roll, after all....

Sounds right. If they ID the spell, but can't stop it, they could burn a movement action to negate a reroll. Though Ill Omen only does the single reroll at first level. At 5th level casting, their are 3 dice, reduced to 2 dice if they burn a movement action. So the effect is greater with more levels behind your casting.

[Ring_of_Gyges]

Identifying a creature is a free action. One quick Knowledge Local to remind yourself of your species should clear it up.

More seriously, ryric is right.

[Matthew Downie]

ryric wrote:

The intent of the spell is clearly to affect a meaningful d20 roll, or to use up a move action.

'Meaningful' is pretty subjective. If you're going to house rule it, why not change it to say it only affects attack rolls, caster level checks and saving throws?

[Forseti]

Meaningless rolls don't have to exist anyway. If someone wants to do something pointless to provoke one, set a low DC and tell the player to take 10.

[Matthew Downie]

That seems an awkward way of fixing the issue. Taking 10 is normally a player decision, and it's not allowed in dangerous/distracting situations like combat.

What if the Knowledge check was potentially relevant to the situation? Does the roll become meaningful then?

[Forseti]

Taking 10 is probably not the best suggestion. More to the point, players never decide when they roll dice. They tell the GM what they want to do, and only roll when the GM finds he needs a roll.

A relevant role can't be a pointless roll at the same time.

[Derklord]

Ring_of_Gyges wrote:

Identifying a creature is a free action.

Nope, it's not an action at all. It's explicitly a mechanic to represent the memory process. If a player wants to make a Knowledge (Plains) check to "Recognize current plane" while still on the prime material plane, just to use up Ill Omen, I think you're legally allowed to yell "knowledge this!" and hit him/her on the head with the CRB.

[CWheezy]

You just get bopped by this spell when it isnt your initiative right?

If I do quicken ill omen then do misfortune or something you have to roll twice

[Kaouse]

Quickened Ill Omen + Persistent Blindness/Deafness? Hope you can make 4 consecutive saves, buddy.

Even if the opponent CAN negate it on their turn, Quicken Spell alone makes it worthwhile.

[miscdebris]

Kaouse wrote:

Quickened Ill Omen + Persistent Blindness/Deafness? Hope you can make 4 consecutive saves, buddy.

Even if the opponent CAN negate it on their turn, Quicken Spell alone makes it worthwhile.

That's my plan for my next feat as my Dual Cursed Oracle. Quicken Ill-Omen followed by one of Waves of Ecstasy, Chains of Light (favorite as they can't take actions until they beat the save), Greater Forbid Action, Serenity, Debilitating Portent, Charitable Impulse, or Reach Bestow Curse.

It occurs to me that I need some non-will save attack spells.

[Snowlilly]

Derklord wrote:

Ring_of_Gyges wrote:

Identifying a creature is a free action.

Nope, it's not an action at all. It's explicitly a mechanic to represent the memory process. If a player wants to make a Knowledge (Plains) check to "Recognize current plane" while still on the prime material plane, just to use up Ill Omen, I think you're legally allowed to yell "knowledge this!" and hit him/her on the head with the CRB.

Just tell him there is no roll necessary for information he already posses.

Then smack him with the CRB.