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Please no more nerfs


Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild

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Shadow Lodge **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
James Risner wrote:
Jurassic Pratt wrote:
@Feral what about the Lore Warden and the ioun stone resonance that gave +2 CMB/CMD did you find over powered? Genuinely curious.

I've played a number of Combat Maneuver builds in PFS from 1-12.

I've never had much trouble building PC that succeed on a 2 for any CMB vs 95 to 99% of the medium sized opponents.

Not to mention that a 50gp Potion of Enlarge Person will let you effect large creatures, if you specialized in a maneuver limited to your own size or smaller.

Scarab Sages *****

Jurassic Pratt wrote:

Tallow, I actually just made it to book 3 of iron gods and their have been a lot of weapon using foes for disarming. But honestly killing them is faster.

My point for CMB users is that you're giving up some damage to use that maneuver. And you're also sinking a lot of feats and money into being good at it. When your hyper specializing like that, don't you deserve to be as good as a specialized Barbarian is at killing things?

And unlike the barbarian, they risk their one thing not being possible depending on the enemy. I think it's fine considering that combat maneuvers are situational.

Here's the thing, my level 18 Rage Prophet, sacrificed a small amount of damage to be really good at trip and disarm. But he could hold his own with the straight Barbarian he adventured with. Sure the straight Barbarian did 350+ per round and my rage prophet did 250+ per round. But when 250+ killed the bad guy, any extra is superfluous. My rage prophet also did not sacrifice doing damage because of choosing to trip, because of Felling Smash and Greater Trip.

The point being, it's never a zero sum equation. It's not all damage or maneuvers. You can gave both.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
MadScientistWorking wrote:
Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:
From the view of ordinary players, when we see changes, what we see primarily are nerfs.
For the most part Paizo is pretty evenly split on upgrading and downgrading. In fact Im actually surprised more people have praised the upgrades because they are incredible.

When was the last time you saw a change to an existing item/spell/class/feat that was an upgrade? Crane Wing doesn't count as the final change was still a downgrade from the original.

Shadow Lodge *****

14 people marked this as a favorite.

The nerf hammer smiteth the overpowered and the underpowered with equal fervor. It does not striketh with subtlty , but drive options unto the ground, from wence never to return. May it not fall upon the lynch pin of thine build

Dona Eis Requiem.

*THUMP*

The Exchange ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

thorin001 wrote:
MadScientistWorking wrote:
Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:
From the view of ordinary players, when we see changes, what we see primarily are nerfs.
For the most part Paizo is pretty evenly split on upgrading and downgrading. In fact Im actually surprised more people have praised the upgrades because they are incredible.

When was the last time you saw a change to an existing item/spell/class/feat that was an upgrade? Crane Wing doesn't count as the final change was still a downgrade from the original.

I posted this a couple of pages back but it got lost in the noise...

Kevin Willis wrote:

For anyone wondering: here's a short list of a few things that are upgraded in Adventurer's Guide. This isn't an exhaustive list, just what I noticed on my first skim.

  • Pathfinder Delver gets some new abilities.
  • Mammoth Rider gets some extra mount choices.
  • Cyphermage has extra choices for cypher lore.
  • Pathfinder Savant is now a 10-level prestige class (not really an upgrade to the existing levels, but there are cool abilities at the new levels).

**

I want clear spindle to be banned, it takes a fun and dangerous ability out of the game and makes the game designers label some NPCs as neutral even when they are clearly evil. Sorry, I want dominate in PFS.

In fact, whenever a new edition of Pathfinder is created, spells like Protection from Evil and Remove Fear should not provide immunities.

Dark Archive

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jason S wrote:

I want clear spindle to be banned, it takes a fun and dangerous ability out of the game and makes the game designers label some NPCs as neutral even when they are clearly evil. Sorry, I want dominate in PFS.

In fact, whenever a new edition of Pathfinder is created, spells like Protection from Evil and Remove Fear should not provide immunities.

I, on the other hand, want a future supplement to have a *GREATER* Clear Spindle, that extends it's protection to *any* loss-of-agency effect on the user, including such things as Confusion, etc, etc.

Priced appropriately, of course, to make it fair, but still a bit more than what the current version does.

*

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Something that grants immunity to weapon damage and to all non-harmless spells would be nice too.


6 people marked this as a favorite.
TOZ wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
That is the exact opposite of growth and change
I'm not sure who brought up growth, but you are incorrect. It is still change.
Red to blue back to red to orange back to red to green back to red is stagnation. You know the answer you should plan for is red. It's stagnation.
Which is possible amid change.

Oh my god you big nerds this is hairsplitting and you both know it.

The Lore Warden was a bad archetype, but the fighter was a bad class. It's still a bad class, considering all the recobbling you have to do to make it work. Frankly, the Lore Warden's flaws are the direct consequence of its source material being basically unworkable. In order to be a decent archetype, it had to cheat matters a little.

So in my opinion, Paizo shouldn't be investing time "nerfing" the Lore Warden until they've invested time "fixing" the fighter himself. And honestly, to a newbie player who doesn't own all the various fighter-fixing splatbooks, they haven't done that yet. I know it's easier to nerf one thing than boost something else, but I don't feel like "easier" is always "better".

Scarab Sages *****

The fighter is NOT a bad class. That's a blatant falsehood.

Shadow Lodge *****

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Kobold Cleaver wrote:


So in my opinion, Paizo shouldn't be investing time "nerfing" the Lore Warden until they've invested time "fixing" the fighter himself. And honestly, to a newbie player who doesn't own all the various fighter-fixing splatbooks, they haven't done that yet. I know it's easier to nerf one thing than boost something else, but I don't feel like "easier" is always "better".

Fixing the fighter is beyond the perview of PFS.

Keeping the patch that we have (the lore warden) in pfs IS the perview of PFS.


Sure, but the patch isn't just for PFS—PFS is the only crowd beholden to it, but this patch is system-wide, isn't it?

Sovereign Court *

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Sure, but the patch isn't just for PFS—PFS is the only crowd beholden to it, but this patch is system-wide, isn't it?

To the best of my knowledge, the Pathfinder Society Field Guide is not receiving errata, and newly sold copies will maintain the original text.

Shadow Lodge *****

And it is up to the campaign staff if they accept the patch, reject it, or implement it beside the original item.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Tallow wrote:
The fighter is NOT a bad class. That's a blatant falsehood.

far less false than the old lore warden being broken, overpowered or bad for the game.

**

thorin001 wrote:
MadScientistWorking wrote:
Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:
From the view of ordinary players, when we see changes, what we see primarily are nerfs.
For the most part Paizo is pretty evenly split on upgrading and downgrading. In fact Im actually surprised more people have praised the upgrades because they are incredible.

When was the last time you saw a change to an existing item/spell/class/feat that was an upgrade? Crane Wing doesn't count as the final change was still a downgrade from the original.

Chirugeon. Im not sure why they of all things fixed that archetype but Chirugeon. Am I going to debate how they fixed it as being incredibly odd? No.

Scarab Sages *****

Alexandros Satorum wrote:
Tallow wrote:
The fighter is NOT a bad class. That's a blatant falsehood.
far less false than the old lore warden being broken, overpowered or bad for the game.

Completely disagree.

Shadow Lodge **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
thorin001 wrote:
MadScientistWorking wrote:
Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:
From the view of ordinary players, when we see changes, what we see primarily are nerfs.
For the most part Paizo is pretty evenly split on upgrading and downgrading. In fact Im actually surprised more people have praised the upgrades because they are incredible.

When was the last time you saw a change to an existing item/spell/class/feat that was an upgrade? Crane Wing doesn't count as the final change was still a downgrade from the original.

Are we counting Campaign Clarifications? Because I can think of several examples off the top of my head where they took archetypes that were considered unplayable and improved them. (Spellscar Drifter and White-Haired Witch)


Tallow wrote:
The fighter is NOT a bad class. That's a blatant falsehood.

The core Fighter has the least out-of-combat utility of any class - bad skill points, limited class skills, no special abilities. In combat, they're decent at dealing damage and surviving hits, but not really any better than Barbarians, Rangers or Paladins. It generally has worse saving throws than any of those guys too.

Whether that makes them 'bad' is debatable, but I'd struggle to call them 'good'.

Fighters modified with options from the newer books can be quite good, but that takes away from their main appeal - their simplicity.

The Exchange ****

MadScientistWorking wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
MadScientistWorking wrote:
Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:
From the view of ordinary players, when we see changes, what we see primarily are nerfs.
For the most part Paizo is pretty evenly split on upgrading and downgrading. In fact Im actually surprised more people have praised the upgrades because they are incredible.

When was the last time you saw a change to an existing item/spell/class/feat that was an upgrade? Crane Wing doesn't count as the final change was still a downgrade from the original.

Chirugeon. Im not sure why they of all things fixed that archetype but Chirugeon. Am I going to debate how they fixed it as being incredibly odd? No.

I missed this change. Do you mean chirurgeon? The Alchemist Archetype? What happened to Chirurgeon?

Scarab Sages ***

pH unbalanced wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
MadScientistWorking wrote:
Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:
From the view of ordinary players, when we see changes, what we see primarily are nerfs.
For the most part Paizo is pretty evenly split on upgrading and downgrading. In fact Im actually surprised more people have praised the upgrades because they are incredible.

When was the last time you saw a change to an existing item/spell/class/feat that was an upgrade? Crane Wing doesn't count as the final change was still a downgrade from the original.

Are we counting Campaign Clarifications? Because I can think of several examples off the top of my head where they took archetypes that were considered unplayable and improved them. (Spellscar Drifter and White-Haired Witch)

And Sword Saint (which eventually made the Golarion FAQ) and Kapenia Dancer.

EDIT: The Campaign Clarifications Document has been a very good thing. It has cleared up many, many questions that used to cause a lot of table variation.

Shadow Lodge *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

How did the sword saint get playable?

Scarab Sages ***

BigNorseWolf wrote:
How did the sword saint get playable?
Golarion FAQ wrote:

Sword Saint Samurai: The sword saint samurai’s brutal slash ability replaces an ability that doesn’t exist. What should it alter and replace?

The sword saint samurai’s brutal slash should replace the second sentence of weapon expertise with “At 3rd level, the samurai selects either the katana or the wakizashi.” This alters weapon expertise. Brutal slash also replaces mounted archer.

That change first appeared in the campaign clarifications.

EDIT: Playable and good are not the same thing. It cleared up the biggest question of how the archetype works.

Scarab Sages *****

Matthew Downie wrote:
Tallow wrote:
The fighter is NOT a bad class. That's a blatant falsehood.

The core Fighter has the least out-of-combat utility of any class - bad skill points, limited class skills, no special abilities. In combat, they're decent at dealing damage and surviving hits, but not really any better than Barbarians, Rangers or Paladins. It generally has worse saving throws than any of those guys too.

Whether that makes them 'bad' is debatable, but I'd struggle to call them 'good'.

Fighters modified with options from the newer books can be quite good, but that takes away from their main appeal - their simplicity.

The versatility and the sheer number of feats you can take, allow you to make almost any crazy build you want.

The power of feats is huge.

Shadow Lodge *****

And fixing the obvious rules kerfufle is not a boost. So we're looking at.. what getting boosted? The UC monk and the UC rogue.

Shadow Lodge **** Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Jacksonville aka Kyrie Ebonblade,

Tallow wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
Tallow wrote:
The fighter is NOT a bad class. That's a blatant falsehood.

The core Fighter has the least out-of-combat utility of any class - bad skill points, limited class skills, no special abilities. In combat, they're decent at dealing damage and surviving hits, but not really any better than Barbarians, Rangers or Paladins. It generally has worse saving throws than any of those guys too.

Whether that makes them 'bad' is debatable, but I'd struggle to call them 'good'.

Fighters modified with options from the newer books can be quite good, but that takes away from their main appeal - their simplicity.

The versatility and the sheer number of feats you can take, allow you to make almost any crazy build you want.

The power of feats is huge.

I agree, my PFS-compatible fighter in Carrion crown might not be a skill monster but it is kind of funny that he's below the party's average level, yet in a party with TWO oracles, a magus/wizard and an Alchemist, he's got the best will save (+12) with nothing more than Iron Will and a CoR +1

With the new training options odds are he's going to be the party face with BAB as his skill soon

Shadow Lodge *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Tallow wrote:
The power of feats is huge.

Could not disagree more.


We've talked about and we agree. There will be no more nerfs. Nothing will get corrected or fixed, ever!

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Brother Fen wrote:
We've talked about and we agree. There will be no more nerfs. Nothing will get corrected or fixed, ever!

quid pro quo Nothing will get maladjusted or broken, ever!

Shadow Lodge *****

Brother Fen wrote:
We've talked about and we agree.

You got a frog in your pocket, buddy?

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Agent, Canada—Ontario—Toronto aka pauljathome

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Tallow wrote:


The versatility and the sheer number of feats you can take, allow you to make almost any crazy build you want.

The power of feats is huge.

But there are now all sorts of ways to get essentially as many, if not more, feats as a non fighter.

Eg, Ranger and Zen Archer monk vs Archer fighter
Vigilante with its "several feats in one" options
Various classes (warpriest, Swashbuckler, etc etc) with both reasonable number of feats (less than fighter but not THAT much less) together with lots of class features worth at least a feat each.

As a class a fighter can make all sorts of martials. But its fairly hard to find an individual niche that can't be done better by non fighters.

Shadow Lodge **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
And fixing the obvious rules kerfufle is not a boost. So we're looking at.. what getting boosted? The UC monk and the UC rogue.

I'll throw Spellscar Drifter out there again...they were granted their Challenge Damage with firearms in the Campaign Clarifications. Which was not fixing an obvious kerfuffle, as their previous rules had been quite clear, if suboptimal.

(Now this change screwed *my* Spellscar Drifter up, since she'd been built around whip fighting, but que sera sera. It allowed people other than me to play the archetype, so I was happy to eat the change for the greater good.)

Shadow Lodge **

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

But you know, I get my fun from taking "unplayable" classes and combinations and optimizing them up to average. So all this thread is making me want to do is play a Lore Warden with a Clear Spindle Ioun Stone and a Jingasa of the Once Fortunate Soldier.

:)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Just going to have to say, this is the future we chose the moment we turned a blind eye to an entire 13 page nerf which made it so we may as well buy an entirely new book.

It's because of the ridiculousness of events like this that I have grown to loathe playing PFS, unless my friends specifically invite me to. On last weekend for Free RPG day, I went in with all my sheets for PFS and just decided, nah, its not worth it and went to play some weird 5th ed one shot because I believed it would at least allow me to do more stuff provided for in its sources than PFS which restricts everything, except the actual stuff which matters.

Its also because of all the nerfs which render my friends PCs unplayable or force them to not be able to play out their ideas that I see them leaving to play other things which they believe would be a better use of their limited gaming time and money on sources.

So its only predictable that something like Lore Warden, which actually makes a PC competent at something other than swinging a sword, gets nerfed, while the spellcasters get to play god and do whatever they want because of the leadership's core beliefs that despite the society doing dangerous jobs and such, they shouldn't be competent enough to tackle the problems they face.

**

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Spark Monkey wrote:
MadScientistWorking wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
MadScientistWorking wrote:
Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:
From the view of ordinary players, when we see changes, what we see primarily are nerfs.
For the most part Paizo is pretty evenly split on upgrading and downgrading. In fact Im actually surprised more people have praised the upgrades because they are incredible.

When was the last time you saw a change to an existing item/spell/class/feat that was an upgrade? Crane Wing doesn't count as the final change was still a downgrade from the original.

Chirugeon. Im not sure why they of all things fixed that archetype but Chirugeon. Am I going to debate how they fixed it as being incredibly odd? No.

I missed this change. Do you mean chirurgeon? The Alchemist Archetype? What happened to Chirurgeon?

Its less a change and more that there is now another archetype that basically makes the concept really viable (Wasteland Blighter). Its really bizarre too because even looking at the Chirurgeon now why did it keep half its poison use abilities. Then if you stack that on with another alchemist archetype you can effectively grant a +6 bonus and 2 rerolls on spells like Dominate in a single round.

Scarab Sages

Matthew Downie wrote:
Tallow wrote:
The fighter is NOT a bad class. That's a blatant falsehood.
The core Fighter has the least out-of-combat utility of any class - bad skill points, limited class skills, no special abilities.

That's basically it. It isn't that the fighter is bad at combat, it's that combat isn't everything, especially in PFS.

Regarding special abilities, I like how simple the fighter is. Wish the spellcasters had an equal. I hate having to remember a page, or two, of special abilities in addition to the many spells I can cast.

As for Fixing the Fighter, a simple option for the Fighter to able to take "6 extra skill points OR a bonus combat feat," at each bonus combat feat class feature, that would solve the problem.

Could even require that 4 of those skill points were spent on Swim, Ride, Acrobatics, and Climb, leaving only 2 extra skill points to choose as you wanted, that would be plenty - it's those 4 skills that screw over the fighter the most, anyway.

Silver Crusade ***** Venture-Captain, Germany—Aschaffenburg-Würzburg

Murdock Mudeater wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
Tallow wrote:
The fighter is NOT a bad class. That's a blatant falsehood.
The core Fighter has the least out-of-combat utility of any class - bad skill points, limited class skills, no special abilities.

That's basically it. It isn't that the fighter is bad at combat, it's that combat isn't everything, especially in PFS.

Regarding special abilities, I like how simple the fighter is. Wish the spellcasters had an equal. I hate having to remember a page, or two, of special abilities in addition to the many spells I can cast.

As for Fixing the Fighter, a simple option for the Fighter to able to take "6 extra skill points OR a bonus combat feat," at each bonus combat feat class feature, that would solve the problem.

Could even require that 4 of those skill points were spent on Swim, Ride, Acrobatics, and Climb, leaving only 2 extra skill points to choose as you wanted, that would be plenty - it's those 4 skills that screw over the fighter the most, anyway.

Well, the fighter does have the bonus feats to spend the occasional regular feat on something like Cunning from the Villain Codex. It gives you one additional skill point per hit die, no questions asked.

Shadow Lodge *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Spending a feat on Cunning gets you one more skill without any other bonuses to it. And instead of that one skill point, you could have any other feat that gives you something useful. (Not that there are many that matter.)

Shadow Lodge **** Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Jacksonville aka Kyrie Ebonblade,

TOZ wrote:
Spending a feat on Cunning gets you one more skill without any other bonuses to it. And instead of that one skill point, you could have any other feat that gives you something useful. (Not that there are many that matter.)

And an extra skill point adds up...say you get cunning, toughness and fast learner, that's 2 skill points/hp a level vs 1 hp or skill point

Add the right traits and you could have a couple class skills not normal to a fighter. Add in the versatile training option instead of a weapon group, sudden fighter mcstabbyguy might be a good back up social character and a lot harder to bluff (sense motive for example) or doesn't need to put a point in riding (or whatever) every level


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That's a lot of investment to have less skills than a slayer and a way less utility than a ranger (and certainly not more combat effectiveness).

Shadow Lodge *****

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Thomas Graham wrote:
And an extra skill point adds up...say you get cunning, toughness and fast learner, that's 2 skill points/hp a level vs 1 hp or skill point

At a cost of three feats. I already said one feat was a bad investment. Three is just good money after bad.

Add in two traits and you've either used up all of them or spent another feat on them. Just more into the sinkhole.

Shadow Lodge **** Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Jacksonville aka Kyrie Ebonblade,

TOZ wrote:
Thomas Graham wrote:
And an extra skill point adds up...say you get cunning, toughness and fast learner, that's 2 skill points/hp a level vs 1 hp or skill point

At a cost of three feats. I already said one feat was a bad investment. Three is just good money after bad.

Add in two traits and you've either used up all of them or spent another feat on them. Just more into the sinkhole.

Funny, the fights I avoided in scenarios, the out of combat contribution, typically as a linguist, and skill checks to aid others would say otherwise

Maybe it's not your style but it worked for other players.

Shadow Lodge *****

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Thomas Graham wrote:
Maybe it's not your style but it worked for other players.

And it works just as fine with rangers and slayers too. Often better.

*says the man with the barbarian trained in diplomacy*

Shadow Lodge *****

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I hate the ad hom that because you say X is bad at Y, that you don't like Y.

I love Y. I do Y all the time. I just don't do it with X.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Thomas Graham wrote:


Funny, the fights I avoided in scenarios, the out of combat contribution, typically as a linguist, and skill checks to aid others would say otherwise

Maybe it's not your style but it worked for other players.

To accomplish the same things (or better) I had to rework my -1 to Slayer (vs. TWF Fighter) and take a dip into Cleric.

Really wish I could have stayed Fighter, but it wasn't nearly flexible enough with skill points or options Tons o Feats are not 'options'. They're a cop-out from lazy design specs.

Shadow Lodge *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Thomas Graham wrote:


Funny, the fights I avoided in scenarios, the out of combat contribution, typically as a linguist, and skill checks to aid others would say otherwise

Maybe it's not your style but it worked for other players.

It's not a matter of style, it's a matter of "does the fighter chassis get me the best bang for my buck in making the character work the way i see them working" ? The versatility of the fighter doesn't matter that much because you're not playing THE fighter you're playing A fighter. When you compare what A fighter solidifies into vs what another class could do, the fighter usually comes up short. That's been a problem since core (the ranger is better at the types of fighting there is a ranger style for) , but it's gone into hyperdrive as the options have expanded.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Fixing the fighter is not about getting a few more skill points at each level. The issue is that at low level, the fighter is very dependent on their armor, which penalizes their lack of skills in the form of an armor check penalty. The fighter desperately needs lots of skill points available at 1st level, at least enough to put a rank in Acrobatics, Swim, Climb, and Ride so their armor doesn't make them useless.

That said, forcing the fighter to gain these via the traditional INT and favored class bonuses, just serves to further impair the fighter, as they really can't afford to have a high INT just for skill points, or to waste favored class bonuses on skill points.

To fix the Fighter, at a bear minimum, they need to always count as having ranks in Acrobatics, Ride, Climb, and Swim, without actually having to spend skill points on it. Beyond those skills, 2+INT per level is plenty to spend on OTHER skills.

Shadow Lodge **** Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Jacksonville aka Kyrie Ebonblade,

Well I just checked things.. the resonance powers on the Ioun stones have already been 'updated' on hero lab. Even if you didn't have the guide in place

I doubt the folks at LWD have some inside tract but they are assuming it's a done deed I guess

Liberty's Edge *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
TOZ wrote:
Thomas Graham wrote:
Maybe it's not your style but it worked for other players.

And it works just as fine with rangers and slayers too. Often better.

*says the man with the barbarian trained in diplomacy*

THUNDERLIPS! IS A DANGEROUSLY CURIOUS MAN OF INFLUENCE.

at level 9, he has a diplomacy score of +18

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, Online aka Hmm

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Thomas Graham wrote:

Well I just checked things.. the resonance powers on the Ioun stones have already been 'updated' on hero lab. Even if you didn't have the guide in place

I doubt the folks at LWD have some inside tract but they are assuming it's a done deed I guess

Yep. So am I. I'm just waiting for the notice on when we can sell these back at full price.

Sigh.

Hmm

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