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Trying to increase my damage out put


Advice

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So I'm playing an archer slash scout. He is not a face what so ever.
Str 8
Dex 24
Int 21
Con 12
Wisdom 12
Charisma 10

My character race is Tiefling with the fey creature template
I have a long bow that does 1d8 + 1d6 fire damage

4 levels are slayer
2 levels are inquisitor

In the end I will have this class lay out
2 levels fighter
3 levels h. Walker
5 levels inquisitor
10 levels slayer

Not sure if I want to go 1 shot 1 kill or just hit them with all the arrows. Right now for Feats I have improved initiative, focused shot, and endurance. I have 1 slayer talent which is perices shot. I have been looking around and I have not found what ideas or Feats I could use to make him the bow man of death.


the words archer and 8 str do not go together


Is this a character that you're aleready playing or is it.still building.time? Cause as it stands this is a very ineffective build. The strenght of the longbow the.number of attacks rather than one.powerful shot.


tryed to reconstruct your point buy closest i got was 35 so basing stats off of 35
try oni spawn teifling with
18str(18 after racials and template)
10dex(14 after racials and template)
14con(14 after racials and template)
10int(12 after racials and template)
18wis(20 after racials and template)
7cha(7 after racials and template)

then go zen archer monk this will allow you to be stealthy and archer as well as having great damage output


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This game does not do one shot, one kill. the closest to that i could think of would be the level 7 deed for 'slingers to make one shot that acts as a full attack but that ends up being a lot weaker than making actual full attacks since you can stack up things like haste and rapid shot in real full attacks. Bolt Ace is the only non gun user who gets the deed that i am aware of and they have to use Crossbows. Since you have such a low strength score though a crossbow isnt that bad an idea... but even then you might want to retrain your class levels instead of starting to multiclass from here on out.

Really from where you are at with that character... i would ask about retraining. Bolt Ace focuses on crossbows so your low strength doesnt matter and gets dex to damage on each shot which would get you a net +8 with your stats. Go to level 5 at a minimum, level 7 if you really want to try the one shot, one kill thing. After that i would switch your class to Inquisitor or Slayer for the rest of the campaign. If you can retrain your stats too than just about any 3/4-1/1 BAB class can make a great archer, the Eldritch Archer (Magus) can also do some One Big Hit kind of stuff with things like Intensified Snowball Arrows.


Milgram2425 wrote:
Not sure if I want to go 1 shot 1 kill or just hit them with all the arrows. Right now for Feats I have improved initiative, focused shot, and endurance. I have 1 slayer talent which is perices shot. I have been looking around and I have not found what ideas or Feats I could use to make him the bow man of death.

Archers are about many arrows and not single shots. So, build for many arrows. Currently, you have a decent one shot (1d8+1d6 fire + 5 from INT + Judgment potential). That craters just as soon as you can make multiple attacks though. You should have been making multiple attacks a while ago.

Your feats are not really built for archery. You only have one needed feat (Precise Shot) at the moment. It will take you time to fix this unless you can retrain some of those feats.

Here are the basic archery feats you'll want:

Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Deadly Aim
Manyshot
Cluster Shots

The quickest path forward...

At level 6, you currently have 1 attacks for 1d8+1d6+5 damage.

At level 7, choose a level of fighter and pick up Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot. You'll have 3 attacks for 1d8+1d6+1 damage.

Retrain Focused Shot and Endurance into Deadly Aim and Many Shot. As soon as you can, angle for a pair of Boots of Speed. This will add a bonus attack.

At level 7, assuming the above, you could be shooting ~5 attacks for 1d8+1d6+5 damage each arrow.


Milgram2425 wrote:

So I'm playing an archer slash scout. He is not a face what so ever.

Str 8
Dex 24
Int 21
Con 12
Wisdom 12
Charisma 10

My character race is Tiefling with the fey creature template
I have a long bow that does 1d8 + 1d6 fire damage

4 levels are slayer
2 levels are inquisitor

In the end I will have this class lay out
2 levels fighter
3 levels h. Walker
5 levels inquisitor
10 levels slayer

Not sure if I want to go 1 shot 1 kill or just hit them with all the arrows. Right now for Feats I have improved initiative, focused shot, and endurance. I have 1 slayer talent which is perices shot. I have been looking around and I have not found what ideas or Feats I could use to make him the bow man of death.

Have you already played this character and are thus locked into this point distribution? Because otherwise this is a terrible stat distribution.

Archers need at least 12 strength, ideally 14. They need at least 16 dex (before racial bonus). Depending on which class you choose will determine the rest of your stats. You definitely don't need an int of 21.

I strongly suggest you pick either fighter or inquisitor or slayer and not dip and multiclass between them unless you have a really specific goal in mind for doing so. Typically multiclassing is detrimental to the characters overall long-term power (though it can be helpful for short games like E6).


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

It looks like he's going for the static damage boosts from Horizon Walker and its terrain mastery & favored enemy stuff. Also Bane from Inquisitor.

As it stands now you need to spend all your future gold on getting your strength to at least 18. Then getting a magic composite longbow with Adaptive on it. Others have mentioned the feats you need, and I also suggest to get rid of Focused Shot soon.


Favored enemy, favored terrain/terrain mastery are very hit or miss. They're completely campaign dependent on how well they work and are something I typically advise against if you're not already certain they'll work.

Inquisitors are great, they along with Warpriests might be my favorite classes. But taking 5 levels in it just to get 5 rounds of bane per day isn't worth it. Hell, he'd be much better off taking 5 levels in fighter and using advanced weapon training to pick up Warrior Spirit.

For what it's worth single classed Fighters, Inquisitors, and Warpriests had the highest damage output for archers in a thread on this board not too long ago. Fighter was the lowest of the 3, I can't remember if the Warpriest or Inquisitor ultimately did better.


This is a character that I'm already playing. In all truth I want to be able to do as much damage as possible. Car was always meant to be a dumb stat. Just happened to be that I didn't read the fey creature template. With that a side how do I fix this character? I like the idea of d. Rooting around the battlefield trying to get sneak attack off here and there.


@Claxon Warpriest came out ahead becuase of its amazing action economy but both were great.

Just a heads up because a lot of people for get longbows say this:

Quote:
If you have a penalty for low Strength, apply it to damage rolls when you use a longbow.

I don't see it in any of the calculations thus far.


Grandlounge wrote:

@Claxon Warpriest came out ahead becuase of its amazing action economy but both were great.

Just a heads up because a lot of people for get longbows say this:

Quote:
If you have a penalty for low Strength, apply it to damage rolls when you use a longbow.

I don't see it in any of the calculations thus far.

Well then in that case I will have to dumb my ability points all into STR


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

At this point there isnt a quick way to increase your damage output. it will take three levels for Bane to come online and even then you will want to either stay with the class for extra rounds or dump feats into extra rounds and that means waiting till level 9 to start correcting the concern. Have you asked your GM about a rebuild?


Sorry about that. I over looked it for a while too. If you stay inquisitor longer you can get access to +3/+3 divine favor which may help and divine power after that. Add in judgments and bane and you doing alright.

You should be in the relm of secondary damage dealer once you get manyshot. Try to follow Rory's advice to get there asap.

General Options:

- Retrain/start taking feats for multiple attacks
- Retrain slayer levels to inquisitor levels
- Rebuild stats
- Focus on 2 classes not 4

I hope you find something that works for your game.


One option to fix your damage could be to go with Crossbows or Firearms instead of longbows. These weapons have no strength requirement so your 8 strength is only an issue insofar as it limits your carrying capacity, and with the Gunslinger class (Bolt Ace archetype if you choose crossbows) you can use your dexterity score to bolster your damage. Without being able to overhaul your spread, this may be your best option. It does mean you'll need 5 levels of Gunslinger so it's not the most immediate of solutions, but it may be the most graceful option.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Another option is to retrain some or all of your levels into Eldritch Archer Magus. You've got the intelligence for it.


Eigengrau wrote:
Another option is to retrain some or all of your levels into Eldritch Archer Magus. You've got the intelligence for it.

Eldritch Archer still wants a decent strength score when using a longbow so his baseline damage is solid. Definitely an option that works for the character, but it still leaves him with problematically low baseline damage.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

At least with that DEX score he can eat the Deadly Aim penalty and still be very accurate. You do need Deadly Aim for that though.


What book is theEldritch Archer in? And is the archetype skirnir worth doing for what I'm trying to do. Another idea to get a better idea of what I'm wanting my character to be like is archer from the anime fate and soul. Just the archer aspect.


Eldritch Archer is from Heroes of the Street. Very solid archetype, and the only real option currently for a ranged Magus. Skirnir is a passable archetype at best, but it focuses on using a shield so I don't see how it's in any way applicable to an archer build (and it's incompatible with Eldritch Archer anyways).


Kirin Strike lets you add double your intelligence modifier to a ranged or melee attack that has hit as a swift action.

You would have to spend a round identifying the creature through a knowledge check first, and the prereqs for the feat in question are more than a little steep unless you already worked yourself in that direction, but in truth a 1 level dip as a master of many styles monk would let you take care of the feat requirements.

You would just need Knowledge (arcana) 9 ranks and Knowledge (dungeoneering, local, nature, planes, or religion) 3 ranks. Not easy, but at least worth mentioning.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ageless_Bum wrote:

Kirin Strike lets you add double your intelligence modifier to a ranged or melee attack that has hit as a swift action.

You would have to spend a round identifying the creature through a knowledge check first, and the prereqs for the feat in question are more than a little steep unless you already worked yourself in that direction, but in truth a 1 level dip as a master of many styles monk would let you take care of the feat requirements.

You would just need Knowledge (arcana) 9 ranks and Knowledge (dungeoneering, local, nature, planes, or religion) 3 ranks. Not easy, but at least worth mentioning.

i spent a long time looking at that style but in the end i would say its not actually useful. you need the prereqs, dip, all knowledges to make the check and numerous actions to enter the style and activate it across multiple rounds, in effect it is just too slow to activate. And you need to make new checks every time you switch enemies. :/


Swift to enter style, swift to identify, swift to get extra damage, enemy dies, swift to identify, enemy dies, swift to identify...

I agree it takes to long to pull off. Sure if your fights normally last 5-9 rounds and individual enemies live 4+ rounds it could be good, but most the time fights are over in 3-4 rounds and enemies in 1-2, so it's not good.


Torbyne wrote:
Ageless_Bum wrote:

Kirin Strike lets you add double your intelligence modifier to a ranged or melee attack that has hit as a swift action.

You would have to spend a round identifying the creature through a knowledge check first, and the prereqs for the feat in question are more than a little steep unless you already worked yourself in that direction, but in truth a 1 level dip as a master of many styles monk would let you take care of the feat requirements.

You would just need Knowledge (arcana) 9 ranks and Knowledge (dungeoneering, local, nature, planes, or religion) 3 ranks. Not easy, but at least worth mentioning.

i spent a long time looking at that style but in the end i would say its not actually useful. you need the prereqs, dip, all knowledges to make the check and numerous actions to enter the style and activate it across multiple rounds, in effect it is just too slow to activate. And you need to make new checks every time you switch enemies. :/

Yeah I agree the cost is steep, that is why i mentioned it really only is an option if the character already went that way. Also agree that the action economy is bad, but judging from the OP's statement about wanting to "1 shot 1 kill" or "Rooting around the battlefield trying to get sneak attack off here and there", I suspect he is in a game that allows for setting up his attacks.


Is the Edritch Archer worth playing? Is it better than the class bonuses you get from slayer or inquisitor? Also do magus get a low hit dice cause right now some how I'm doing well with that and my stealth. I like the idea of being a scout, but I want to be able to live if I'm in trouble.


The reason I was going the original route is because I like the idea of D dooring in between attacks. Which is why I'm going only 3 levels of H. Walker.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Eldritch Archer is a D8 hit die. they have up to six levels of arcane casting though so they can get incredible defenses thanks to that. Mirror Image grants a miss chance which can be better than armor, but they will also wear armor and can use all kinds of defensive spells on top of that. Their main damage will come from Spell Combat and Spell Strike where they get to tag some spells into an arrow and then hit with spell, arrow and regular full attack all at once. with the right Arcana they can also add touch spells into their arrows and shoot those at hundreds of feet as well.

Keep in mind that as an archer you dont want to be in melee anyways. You have a level 1 spell to add 30' to your movement though so if you need to bug out there isnt going to be much that can keep up with you. you also have invisibility and greater invisibility on your spell list. Invisibility and fly tends to make for a good scout.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If you are interested in using Dimension Door, Magus gets it as a spell.

And if you take dimensional agility you can cast it with spell combat and still get an attack afterwards.

Your stats would better suit a Magus, and at least with a magus at least some of your attacks can do extra damage with a spell.

Nothing is going to totally fix your low strength, but if you can get it up to 12 or 14 via magic items and attribute bumps you will at least be doing fairly decent damage.


ask the dm if you can respec your character to change the stats around and class levels


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Eldritch Archer is totally worth playing. You'll still want to upgrade to a strength rated composite longbow and increase your strength to at least an 18 by way of magic items or your leveling ability score boosts.

The Eldritch Archer gets to treat his bow as an Arcane Bond, meaning you can spend gold at a discount to upgrade its abilities just like if you had Craft Magic Arms & Armor feat.

Going this route you'd have 4 feats. I'd pick Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim and Intensify Spell. The last feat won't benefit you a lot at your level but it will allow you to cast 6d6 Damage Snowball spells out of your 2nd level slots through Ranged Spellstrike/Ranged Spell Combat. You will still be using 5d6 Snowball spells in your 1st level slots.

Some wouldn't recommend taking the Myrmidarch archetype alongside Eldritch Archer but I would. You give up 1 spell slot per level but gain the Fighters Weapon Training feature. That will give you a +1 to hit & damage with bows and if you get some Gloves of Dueling that will increase to +3/+3.


While it would be nice to be able to hit an 18 strength, priority on an archer should always be dex. 14 strength is perfectly fine if you have another stat you need (such as for any casting class).

My priorities for an archer are:
Dex > Casting Stat > Str > Con > Other mental stats


Claxon wrote:

While it would be nice to be able to hit an 18 strength, priority on an archer should always be dex. 14 strength is perfectly fine if you have another stat you need (such as for any casting class).

My priorities for an archer are:
Dex > Casting Stat > Str > Con > Other mental stats

one exception to that is zen archer which is wis>str>con>everything else


That all seems nice. But is there anyway to go with what I have and to make it work? 5 levels for bane seem worth it. So Feats are the only way to get there?


at this point, no. Your stats are built to do no damage, thus you're going to do no damage. If there was a simple way to suddenly do more damage then you'd see people taking those options on character's doing damage.

Medium dip can get 3 damage per shot and opens up a feat for another 1.
bolt ace 5
inquisitor 5

But when you build to not do damage you can't really just suddenly fix it.


I could dump my Ability bonuses that I get every 4 level into str


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Milgram2425 wrote:
I could dump my Ability bonuses that I get every 4 level into str

That will take 5 levels just to cancel out your penalty. If you are not enjoying what you have right now than you are not likely to play the character to high enough level to fix it.


I'm not unhappy with the character. He has a great back story. My questions were regarding his Feats and what to do to make him better.


Milgram2425 wrote:
5 levels for bane seem worth it

Not really. It's 5 levels of a 3/4 BAB class in order to get 2d6+2 damage for only 5 rounds per day.

Inquisitor is a great class, I just don't think it's a good dip class. You're better off staying single classed IMO and finding ways to make it work.

If you're allowed to use retraining rules, retraining all your levels to Inquisitor would work well.


What about the d dooring and the study target class ability from slayer?


sanctified slayer inquisitor can get studied target.


So what my thought process for this was I could do 4 levels of slayer. Then do the rest in inquisitor. The only reason I wa Le going two levels of fighter was for the bonus Feats


Why bother taking any slayer levels? Inquisitor is best without multiclassing.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Dimension door isnt really that great on an archer anyways, you are going to use it to bug out from trouble, right? just use invisibility and/or fly from the inquisitor spell list. D Door and the dimensional agility line is a niche trick for very specific builds to get a pounce like effect on melee charactrers, it is extremely rare for an archer to need it. Inquisitor should also get you expeditious retreat to give you a huge speed boost for getting out of dodge at level 1. lots of options other than dipping across multiple classes to pull off one trick at level 11.


Fair enough. But with such a low wiz mod that he will only be able to cast 2nd level spells if I understand it correctly


Would it just be better to put all of my remaining 12 levels in eldritch archer? I say that because I can take 2 levels of fighter to get back on track. Thoughts?


Honestly I would go pure sacred slayer inquisitor. Take the travel domain for ports if you really want them. Getting my daughter to bed I'll post more later :P


If you dipped 1 level in Ranger, you might use a Wand of Gravity Bow, which would increase the Base Damage of your Arrows to 2d6.

Mark Seifter once told me that he liked to cast Enlarge Person, then shoot arrows, that would bring your base Damage up to 3d6. He would carry Size Large Arrows along with him, put them down. Enlarge himself, then pick up his quiver.

You are taking levels in Inquisitor. Level 5 Inquisitors can put Bane on their weapons: +2d6 Damage.

You are taking levels in Slayer. That means Sneak Attack Damage. Maybe take 2 levels in Ninja and take Vanishing Trick. Turn Invisible as a Swift Action, that means you lock in your Sneak Attack Damage with your arrows. Take Rogue the Rogue Talent False Attacker: with a successful Bluff Check your target thinks your arrow must have come from somewhere else, and you get to keep your Stealth and therefore your Sneak Attack Damage. There is a Wondrous Item: Mask of the Stony Demeanor, which gives you a +5 on Bluff Checks to Feint in Combat and costs less than 1000gp. If you take the Rogue Talent Ki Pool, you get extra Ki Points, and you get to use your Wisdom instead of your Charisma. If you take 3 levels in Monk, Drunken Master, you can replenish Ki by Drinking.

Inquisitors level 3 and above have an ability called Solo Tactics, which lets them gain the bonuses of Teamwork Feats as if your allies had them, too. Precise Strike, which grants +1d6 Sneak Attack Damage.

Vivisectionist Alchemists also get Sneak Attack Damage. Grenadier Alchemists get to shoot exploding arrows. They get to attach Alchemal Weapons to their arrows at level 2. There is a Discovery called Explosive Missile available at level 4 which lets Alchemists put Bombs on their Arrows. Exploding arrows are cool.


There is no way to salvage your terrible build to focus on damage. Mostly.

I see one potential way for you to get better damage while not having to boost your strength at all.

Take 3 levels of the Trench Fighter archetype. You need to pick up proficiency in firearms via one of the fighter bonus feats. You can get proficiency first thing when you dip and get a weapon with shadow shooting to avoid having to reload.

This lets you devote everything to boosting your dexterity and you get dexterity to damage.

You could snag a double barreled musket and give it the shadowshooting and distance property

You would be shooting for minimum damage but you gain dex to damage and you target touch AC. Your accuracy would go way up and your damage would be consistent.


I'm gonna quickly dump a 12th level Inquisitor NPC I built for my home game as an example of an Inquisitor archery build. It's got standard NPC WBL and stats, so a PC would be even more effective than this.

Note this is burst damage Assassin build, so it assumes time to prepare spells before combat, but even without a lot of the extra stuff here, you'd get good mileage from the base build. It also doesn't have anything added from allies or its teamwork feats.

The attack is +25/+25/+25/+20 on a full attack from invisibility, and damage is +52 on the first arrow and +26 on subsequent shots. That's not including bane damage and arrow dice, just straight flat damage. Assuming all arrows hit in the first full attack, they'd put out an average of 96 damage with the first arrow and 48 damage on the rest, for a single round damage output of 288 average damage assuming they can hit the unaware enemy.

This is all theorycraft of course, but try to consider whether your multiclass could achieve similar potential.

Female Human Inquisitor (CR 11)
Size/Type: Medium humanoid (human)
Hit Dice/DR: hp 105 (12d8+36+12 temp)
Initiative/Senses: Init +11; Perception +19; See Invisibility
Speed: Speed 30 ft.
Armor Class: AC 26, touch 19, flat-footed 21 (+7 armor, +4 deflection, +5 Dex)
Base Attack/CMB/CMD: Base Atk +9; CMB +11; CMD 26
Attack:
Melee
heavy mace +20/+15 (1d6+6) (includes buffs)
Ranged longbow +27 (1d8+26+5d6+1 bleed/19-20x3)
Full attack longbow +25 (2d8+52+10d6+2 bleed/19-20x3)
+25/+25/+20 (1d8+26+5d6+1 bleed/19-20x3) (+2d10+shaken 1 round on crit)
Space/Reach: Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.; Range 110 ft.
Special Attacks: Judgement, Greater Bane (12 rounds)
Special Qualities: Persistence Inquisition; Detect Alignment (At Will); Discern Lies (12 rounds)
Saves: Fort +12, Ref +12, Will +13 (Stalwart)
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 20, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 10
Skills: Disguise +27, Intimidate +22, Knowledge (Religion) +18, Perception +19, Sense Motive +14, Spellcraft +16, Stealth +21 (ACP: -1)
Feats: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot, Improved Initiative, Manyshot, Toughness, Step Up, Friendly Fire Maneuvers, Coordinated Shot, Target of Opportunity, Volley Fire
Equipment: +2 composite +2 Str longbow, +1 mithral breastplate, headband of inspired wisdom +2, efficient quiver, heavy mace, inquisitor’s kit, 160 arrows, potion of fly, scroll of true strike, scroll of silence, scroll of dimensional anchor, tanglefoot bag
Alignment/Languages: LE; Common

Inquisitor Spells Known (CL 12th; concentration +14)
4th (3/day)--death ward, divine power, freedom of movement, greater invisibility
3rd (4/day)--bloody arrows, burst of speed, heroism, raven’s flight
2nd (6/day)--flames of the faithful, invisibility, resist energy, see invisibility, weapon of awe
1st (6/day)--cure light wounds, disguise self, expeditious retreat, shield of faith, shield of fortification, wrath
0th--detect magic, guidance, light, read magic, resistance, virtue

Tactics

Before Battle: Cast Freedom of Movement (2 hours), Heroism (2 hours), See Invisibility (2 hours), Disguise Self (11 minutes), Weapon of Awe (11 minutes), Expeditious Retreat (11 minutes), Shield of Faith (11 minutes), Shield of Fortification (11 minutes), Invisibility (11 minutes)

During Battle: Scout and cast Resistance (7 rounds), Wrath (8 rounds), Flames of the Faithful (9 rounds), Bloody Arrows (10 rounds), Divine Power (11 rounds), Greater Invisibility (12 rounds) and Greater Bane (12 rounds), then attack in the surprise round and activate Judgement. If cornered in melee, then use Burst of Speed or Raven’s Flight as a swift action before withdrawing.

Bow Attack: 9 BAB +2 enhancement +5 Dex +4 luck (Divine Power) +3 morale (Wrath) +2 (invisible) +2 (Greater Bane) +3 profane (Judgement) -3 (Deadly Aim) = 27, +conditional modifiers per teamwork feats

Bow Damage: +2 enhancement +2 Str +4 luck (Divine Power) +3 morale (Wrath) +2 (Greater Bane) +5 profane (Judgement) +2 sacred (Weapon of Awe) +6 (Deadly Aim) +4d6 (Greater Bane) +1d6 fire (Flames of the Faithful) +1 bleed (Bloody Arrows, stacks up to 5)

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