AC or extra attack?


Advice


So I've been contemplating a monk 1/ninja 2/bloodrager X type character, but someone pointed out their low ac and asked if the extra attack from monk's flurry was worth not wearing good armor and having low ac.what do you think? What is the best choice here?

Sovereign Court

It depends on what you are fighting and the campaign.

Low ac tend to not be a problem if your dm likes to use humanoids with npc levels and the occasional powerful npc with class levels.

If your DM is really into brute monsters, like ogres, you will most likely get hit anyway unless you invest heavily into AC.


Just go with scaled fist monk and get CHA to AC. As both ninja and bloodrager both need charisma it works well. Plus free dragon style.

Scarab Sages

It depends on your bloodline and other defenses you have up. If you're arcane bloodline and have either blur or haste up every time you rage, the AC loss is more than worth the extra attack. Also, depending on which weapon you use, you can make up for that with a defensive monk weapon and crane style.


Why don't you just do the aberrant protector tumor familiar and use fast healing and DR and ignore AC?

Grand Lodge

It is clearly a cha build but I'm guessing the offensive stat is strength so the starting ac is likely around 16. Unless my guess in incorrect.

If you have access to mage armor so should be starting at a fine level 20 AC level 1. But without enhancement you will quickly fall behind.

I have seen Barbarains at level 14 with 17 AC do fine and at that level and you will eventually have some castings of mirror image which will help a lot.

Options:

1) Stay the path: your ac will be low but damage out put will be high. This can work but crits are going to confirm from creatures that hit hard so have a buffering cap and a helpful team.

2) Monk 1/ninja 2/bloodrager 1/monk x

Get the monk ac bonuses and barkskin this should result in decent ac and mage armor wand but takes a while for the monk stuff to come on line.

3) Ninja Bloodrager

Starting AC is around 18 (14 dex + breast plate). AC can scale but will be expensive. You may want mithral and you lose the extra attack.

Option 2, though the biggest change to your build seems best to me. Option 3 does not seem to give me enough AC to make me want to take that path. Maybe with steelblood so I can crank my con and cha.

The original build seems fun if you can get help from the team with barkskin that should be ok until you are a huge sack of hit points.

Grand Lodge

Chromantic Durgon <3 likely has the best solution to keep the build as is.


I wont have any spells up, haste maybe from the party.
Setting is PFS where's there's lots of stuff.

Scaled fist monk is the monk choice, but getting +3 via charisma and even counting mage armor it's only +7 to AC. That's the same as +1 breastplate which is super cheap, but also allows for cheap upgrading for more AC. Like +3 breastplate is 2 more AC for relatively cheap that the monk just wont have. And since I might try going for full plate that's +9 base with 3 more in cheap upgrades, that's 5 more AC.

I'm just worried that the attack penalty (-2) of fighting defensively will hurt to much, since the plan is to be using power attack. I have -1 bab and no other boost besides rage, so I don't feel my attack rolls can commonly handle the added -2 as a main plan.


Imbicatus wrote:
It depends on your bloodline and other defenses you have up. If you're arcane bloodline and have either blur or haste up every time you rage, the AC loss is more than worth the extra attack.

This is kind of true, but also misleading. The time in your character's life where AC matters most is in the very early levels where you don't really have any other form of protection, and almost all enemy attacks are against AC. Getting to monk 1/ninja 1/bloodrager 4, where the blur kicks in, will be a long hard slog of nearly dying.

Grand Lodge

Bloodrager (steel blooded aberrant bloodline) 1/ ninja 2/ bloodrager x seems to offer the best defenses.


can a tumor be inside your armor thus having total cover from enemies? I'm just nervous because without evasion cause of being a protector, random AoE is like double effective against you.

Grand Lodge

Rules grey area but as written it only acts as a separate creature when separated. So, it should not be subject to attacks or AOEs when not held within your body.

Quote:
As a standard action, the alchemist can have the tumor detach itself from his body as a separate creature vaguely resembling a kind of animal suitable for a familiar (bat, cat, and so on) and move about as if it were an independent creature.

This is what I got from reading the rules post on it but like everything there was mixed feelings.


I have a bloodrager 1/monk x. With decent DEX and WIS, monk bonuses, dodge feat, +2 ring of protection, mage armor and shield spell, the character's AC at 11th level is 30. The character also has the martial artist archetype and can generate another 5 to the AC against a single target using exploit weakness.

That's an AC of 35 at 11th level without even trying too hard.


Grandlounge wrote:

Rules grey area but as written it only acts as a separate creature when separated. So, it should not be subject to attacks or AOEs when not held within your body.

Quote:
As a standard action, the alchemist can have the tumor detach itself from his body as a separate creature vaguely resembling a kind of animal suitable for a familiar (bat, cat, and so on) and move about as if it were an independent creature.

This is what I got from reading the rules post on it but like everything there was mixed feelings.

So is it able to take any actions when it's attached? Like use it's bodyguard ability.


The other side is backed up by the feat Die For Your Master:

Quote:

If your tumor familiar is attached, and you would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by damage in combat (from a weapon or other blow, not a spell or special ability), the familiar throws itself in the way of the attack as an immediate action. If it makes a Reflex saving throw (DC = damage dealt), it takes all the damage from the attack; if it fails, it takes half damage and you take half damage.

The familiar must be aware of the attack and able to react to it in order to use this ability, and it can only do this once per day—if it is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC, it can’t use this ability. Since this effect would not normally allow the familiar to make a Reflex save for half damage, its improved evasion ability does not apply on this saving throw.

This ability is from the same source that the tumor comes from, and implies that an attached familiar is normally aware and able to react to things.

And the familiar pretty much has to count as a separate creature or else its fast healing while attached wouldn't work either.


Grandlounge wrote:
Quote:
As a standard action, the alchemist can have the tumor detach itself from his body as a separate creature vaguely resembling a kind of animal suitable for a familiar (bat, cat, and so on) and move about as if it were an independent creature.

An alternative way to interpret this is that the tumor isn't a creature until it first separates. And then it is that creature forevermore. This interpretation also keeps you from being able to change the creature type every other time it separates.

Grand Lodge

Quote:
The tumor acts as the alchemist's familiar whether attached or separated (providing a skill bonus, the Alertness feat, and so on).

This is the best answer I have. I think yes.


What is the wisdom of the character in question? Or are you planning to go scaled fist monk as suggested above?


the build is scaled fist. The planned stats are 18/12/14/5/12/16 via nagaji. SO AC 16 via monk level, 20 with mage armor. Shield spell is too short to prebuff with from wand to count on it being up, and I wont be getting bloodrager spells.

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