What would *you* change?

[Brother Tyler]

The only way I can see optional side quests working is if they provide non-game balancing rewards that offer alternatives that wouldn't normally be available if one simply played through the normal AP progression. These would largely be boons (including loot). They might potentially include optional role cards or unlocked characters. Optional roles would be difficult to implement in a general fashion, but might be interesting (might be a nice topic for the DIY section). Optional roles would be easier to develop for specific characters, but that would limit their applicability and player interest. Unlocked characters might follow the pattern of Wrath of the Righteous. Regardless, nothing in a side quest should render characters more powerful than if they hadn't completed the side quest (for the reasons that wkover touched on).

Errata cards are something I'd like to see, and can be implemented well enough via Drive Thru Cards, saving Paizo resources. As for when to make errata cards available, I wouldn't expect anything quick. Under normal conditions, waiting at least a year or two is prudent, giving time for the actual errata to shake itself out (hopefully across one or two APs) so that the designers can be sure that the errata is "finalized" and players aren't wasting money buying multiple iterations of a card as the kinks are worked out. As for the existing crop of cards, with the revisions that the revised core rules are bringing, I can understand why we haven't seen errata cards available (for Wrath of the Righteous and Mummy's Mask, at least). My bank account is thankful in that regard.

As for the "divide" between those that want more characters and those that want more adventures/adventure paths/scenarios, I don't think it's a cut and dried "division." My belief is that many of us want both, with those that want one or the other composing a smaller fraction of the community. One of the big draws of this game is its replayability, and that covers both sides of the equation. At its most basic level, the random location composition and variation in party composition, deck composition, and character progression drive considerable replayability. With more character options, you can replay the same adventure/adventure path/scenario multiple times using different characters for different experiences. You can also use the same character across multiple adventures/adventure paths/scenarios for different experiences. Different characters appeal to different plays, both in terms of playing styles and in terms of the character's lore. Similarly, different adventures/adventure paths/scenarios provide different experiences, especially with variations in rules (e.g., Skull & Shackles vs. Wrath of the Righteous). Ultimately, I think that a balance between additional characters and additional adventures/adventure paths/scenarios provides players with the best set of options for finding ways to enjoy the game, allowing each player/group to enjoy the game their way.

[Beagle]

We effectively already have side-quests with the 'Season of...' missions. But these have never been formally made into products of a similar ilk of the other big box and pack releases. I haven't heard anyone saying these don't work so why the fuss?!

Brother Tyler response: I agree errata cards should only appear after a good period of time so that any corrections are sound and good to go. So, how many years have we been waiting now? Be honest here, would you not say we are long overdue some errata correction cards? Perhaps we should wait for another couple of years...

I don't have a problem with Character decks, release as many as you like Paizo, but not to the exclusion of more adventures, quests, and stories. Outside the main adventure path, the only other adventures of any sort are the season of missions and even these are not released as physical products by Piazo. Instead, we have to separately buy the missions from Paizo and the cards from DriveThru. It's just weird man, I don't have to do this for any other game I buy. I don't believe I am saying anything bad or controversial here.

As for the rewards set for side-quests, just set a buy-in that is near equal to any potential reward and you can easily negate any power creep. It's not rocket science, it's been done in games before.

Edit: Also, a side-quest is the perfect place to try out a character/class you don't normally play. Maybe this would enhance and give all of us a reason to play the many characters we already have but don't feel the need to explore. You want to introduce 'Sparkles the Pirate Monkey'... well then here is a short set of missions for you try him out. Can you not see a potential here?

[Brother Tyler]

"Season of..." adventure paths are not side quests. They are discrete adventure paths that are played separately from the other adventure paths. You don't start your party on the Rise of the Runelords adventure path, jump over to the Season of the Runelords adventure path partway through, and then return to the Rise of the Runelords adventure path.

If you think that "side quests" means something similar to the "Season of..." products, then I suggest using a different term. I agree that these are great products that provide players with more replay options using existing kits (and I'd love to see Paizo/Lone Shark continue to make them), but they don't fit into the normal concept of a "side quest."

[Beagle]

Brother Tyler wrote:

They are discrete adventure paths that are played separately from the other adventure paths.

By my measure, your own words describe a side-quest.

[Yewstance]

Beagle wrote:

Brother Tyler wrote:

They are discrete adventure paths that are played separately from the other adventure paths.

By my measure, your own words describe a side-quest.

I've been mostly lurking this discussion, but I feel I need clarification. What is your definition of a side-quest?

It sounds like your definition is "Any content that uses the same Base Set of cards, but is not the Adventure Path provided with that Base Set by default", correct? "Side Quest" is a term that - to me - suggests an optional extra scenario (or scenarios) that the same character can complete for additional rewards, which is utterly different to what the Seasons provide.

[Doppelschwert]

I think there was a lot of confusion regarding the usage of the word side quest; the majority of people I know, myself included, understands the term the same way that yewstance does. That being said, there are side quests in the sense of 'optional objectives during a scenario that give additional rewards' in many scenarios of various official and inofficial APs.
Shameless advertisement: In my homebrew Emerald Legacy, side quests have an actual impact on the story.

Beagle wrote:

We effectively already have side-quests with the 'Season of...' missions. But these have never been formally made into products of a similar ilk of the other big box and pack releases.

What exactly do you expect to be turned into a product here?

In case you are not aware, you can buy the PDFs containing the scenarios here on paizo, and the corresponding officially printed cards (for the older seasons) can be ordered at drivethrucards.com.
By my definition, that is 100% product coverage.

That said, drivethru has insane shipping rates to everywhere outside the US, which turns the officially printed cards into an unaffordable luxury item that you should rather print yourself. I can easily get Core and CotCT for the price it would cost me to get those cards over here...

[wkover]

Doppelschwert wrote:

That said, drivethru has insane shipping rates to everywhere outside the US, which turns the officially printed cards into an unaffordable luxury item that you should rather print yourself.

Just a quick note that, IMHO, "luxury" is an apt description. The print-out proxies provided in the Organized Play .pdfs work just fine. No need to have the physical cards, really.

[Beagle]

Doppelschwert wrote:

What exactly do you expect to be turned into a product here? In case you are not aware, you can buy the PDFs containing the scenarios here on paizo, and the corresponding officially printed cards (for the older seasons) can be ordered at drivethrucards.com. By my definition, that is 100% product coverage.

That said, drivethru has insane shipping rates to everywhere outside the US, which turns the officially printed cards into an unaffordable luxury item that you should rather print yourself. I can easily get Core and CotCT for the price it would cost me to get those cards over here...

Yup that right 100% product coverage from two separate companies and as you rightly point out for those of us abroad (such as the UK) a very expensive little journey. That is my point, you've just made it. You can't compare this product with the Core Boxset, AP Packs and Character Packs, all of which are self-contained, reasonably priced and sold as physical products, not downloads and print-on-demand cards. There is no comparison to make here, outside the US these products are not affordable. As for using proxies, no problem but don't call it a product comparable to the retail PACG products. That's also not a fair comparison.

[Fracturedorb]

As someone who's a bit late to the party I wanted to put forth a few of my thoughts here. One of which hopefully still has time somehow to make it into the game and one which is just too late but I can't let it go.

First off, would it be possible, either in the manual or as an insert, to get a timing flowchart? FFG puts out a lot of card games and each one has a flowchart that tells you exactly when every action type in the game happens and when player actions can occur. It REALLY helps those games flow smoothly and really could be used here.

Second, the new cards... just look, bad... sorry. I see what was intended but they feel like a massive step backwards in quality. They allow for more text, sure, maybe, but on most cards there's just going to be this oddly zoomed in picture on the right with all this blank space on the left. The curved border on the bottom of the cards right next to a rectangular box makes the card look like it has a printing error. And the new templating for "top of the hour" effects really could have used a better phrase or word. As it is it's going to lead to a lot of sentences which will sound like broken English when you try and read them out loud. The # in place of the adventure number or level of the card is a neat idea but could have used a custom icon. As it is having "hashtags" on the cards looks awkward as heck.

Sorry my second point is so negative. I'm still going to buy the new cards but they just look so ugly when compared to the originals.