Contributor
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This is correct. That is highly inappropriate for a Society GM.
I recommend contacting your local Venture-Captain. If you don't know who that is, I believe the Guide to Organized Play lists all the VCs by region. You may also want to get in touch with the others who died in that game, as the results may be reversible upon investigation.
Also, I've flagged this to be moved to the Roleplaying Guild subforum. You'll probably get better help there.
Good luck getting this resolved!
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I was a part of the game in question, and did not think anything of the re-roll at the time. Honestly, I really don't think the outcome of the fight would have been any different...we were so badly outclassed by the end boss it was ridiculous. A CR 8, flying, teleporting demon with dominate person and 26 AC against 2 level 4s (one of which was a first time player with an incorrectly made character with only starting gear) and 2 level 5s. We never stood a chance against her.
As for what happened between you and the VL/VC, I was not involved...so I cannot comment on that.
At least there were no permanent deaths, everyone was able to be raised. Though it has rather killed my enthusiasm towards continuing to play the character I was using for that adventure.
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The GM could have used a reroll if the NPC had an ability that granted such. However, from the description of the scenario, the NPC did not.
Bringing your complaint to your VO chain is the proper course of action. This can include moving up the chain, including to the OPC if you feel strongly enough about it. It is best to handle this at the lowest level possible, of course.
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Contributor
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I concur with those that suggest bringing it up the chain. I would also caution continuing to discuss the issue here. It sounds like its turning into a bigger deal than it really was and discussing it in a public forum will cause those involved to become defensive when they see it.
Seconding this pretty hard. At this point, minimize discussion of details. And continue not publicly naming names.
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Not sure what spell the Witch was casting, but if it was daze, it does not work on anything above 4HD...so it would have not worked on the demon anyways.
I was the one playing the bloodrager, and even at 24 AC, I would have had to roll a 15+ to hit the demon (instead of the 17+ with her at full AC). 90% of the damage I took was either from out dominated party member, or the demon itself, I only took 1 hit from the babau she summoned.
I think the thing that killed us the most was the new player. His character was severely under powered because he had no gear, plus the player did not know how to properly play, and was not very talkative during the game to ask questions or anything.
FYI, using real names on the forum is poor form.
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Sent a message to the VO in question to see about getting her side of the story. I would advise against making decisions about who was right and who was wrong off of a one sided thread, I have been playing PFS in the area for a while now, and have never had trouble with the leadership. I do also agree about using names on a public forum, but knowing a bit more about the personalities involved this seems a bit strange and out of character for local PFS leadership.
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Contributor
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wait dms in pfs aren't allowed to use any mechanic provided to them that allows rerolls? seems like just a bunch of wasted resources as they aren't allowed to tweek any of the encounters to get rid of said abilities to make it still have normal amounts of resources
They're allowed to use in-game mechanics, such as that provided by the Luck domain.
What they aren't permitted to use (and what it seems as though Nocturne was referring to) are the PFS-specific items - such as character folios and PFS shirts - that allow a player to reroll once per session.
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I have been playing PFS for almost a year now, and I love it. No fighting over loot, standardized XP and gold progression, most of the broken feats/archetypes/etc. have been banned from play, everyone has the same point buy for stats. Overall it is great.
Sure, there are some limitations...(I want to play a catfolk darn it!), but I love being able to grab a character I have of the proper level and drop into groups with new people, etc.
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Number one, there are two sides to every debate, and in this case there are more than that, since the VO team has the side of the OP, the GM, the attending VA, and the players. Needless to say the side represented here on this post does not contain the whole of the facts and circumstances surrounding this. But since these boards are not the place for such things, I will not go into them.
Number two, it is considered very poor form to name people in your posts by their real names, and I would appreciate the OP consider this in the future.
As others have mentioned, the OP is perfectly within his right to raise his concerns to the RVC and OPC.
Thank you
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I was a part of the game in question, and did not think anything of the re-roll at the time. Honestly, I really don't think the outcome of the fight would have been any different...we were so badly outclassed by the end boss it was ridiculous. A CR 8, flying, teleporting demon with dominate person and 26 AC against 2 level 4s (one of which was a first time player with an incorrectly made character with only starting gear) and 2 level 5s. We never stood a chance against her.Which scenario was it?
Dawn of the Scarlet Sun
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Organized Play Coordinator, Tonya Woolridge. If you are having trouble with your VL/VC team, the next step is your RVC, Bob Jonquet, and if he cannot resolve the issue, Tonya is the final stop on the chain.then lets try the RVC is there any special way of contacting him?
Why did I see that as "special way to summon him" at first. Say 3 times, I summon thee Bob.
Worth noting that Tonya is currently in the UK at UK Games Expo (packing up, I believe), so will probably be unavailable for at least a couple of days.
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If a GM makes a bad call you are obviously free to discuss it with them after the game, and if you feel like it was done with intent or wasn't a mistake for some reason you can take it to the Chain.
If you've done that, and the Chain says they discussed it with the GM and it was a mistake that's been corrected then it becomes a resolved issue.
If you as a Player don't believe that the Chain went far enough that's really not relevant to the issues at hand. If you're degrading a GM to others up to and including naming them in an effort to shame them, you're in the wrong. If you've done something like that and people have elected to nor seat you based on those or other behaviors, that's totally legit. No GM is forced to seat someone who they feel is a problem. PFS policy specifically calls out aggression and slander as reasons to *not* seat someone.
I would suggest taking a deep breath and consider where you're at currently and why. Maybe apologies are in order?
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For anyone who is following this thread, my attention has been brought to bare, though I will not discuss details here in a public forum. As is typical of situations like this, there appears to be much more involved than what has been described so far.
As was stated up thread, anytime issues like this occur we take the opportunity to remind players/GMs that we have an escalation process for them to use and you shouldn't skip anyone because that person is just gonna kick it back down to the previous level for investigation. The following is an informal escalation hierarchy a player can use to have their issue reviewed and the next person in line should they not get the resolution expected. Sometimes the same person serves multiple roles, so you may skip a level in those cases.
- Table GM (first person to whom to address your concerns)
- Event organizer (could be a Venture-Agent or just a player/GM coordinating the event)
- Venture-Agent (if there is one overseeing the venue)
- Venture-Lieutenant (if there is one over-seeing the local area)
- Venture-Captain (if you do not specifically have one over your immediate area, consult the coordinator's page in the PFS homepage and contact the one closest to you)
- Regional Venture-Coordinator (if you do not know who this is [we oversee very large geographic areas] again check the coordinator's page where we are listed at the top
- Organized Play Coordinator (this is the highest level of authority in the organized play community. As she is overseeing 100,000+ players, GMs, and volunteers worldwide and spends as much as 75%+ of her time traveling to various events, it may take time to get focus on your issue at this level, so don't expect an answer overnight)
While we can certainly sympathize with a player/GM's frustration when something occurs that does not make them happy, we encourage everyone to use the above escalation process and not bring their complain to public forums. Not because we are trying to hide anything. On the contrary, the volunteers and our processes are fairly transparent. However, voicing your complaints in the forums does not resolve your issue and can often muddle the details as people speculate on who is "wrong" with incomplete information.
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- Venture-Captain (if you do not specifically have one over your immediate area, consult the coordinator's page in the PFS homepage and contact the one closest to you)
I thought that if there was no local Venture Captain you just directly contacted the Regional Coordinator.
It seems reasonable to me that, when going up a hierarchy, you actually go up the hierarchy. Not suddenly go sideways to somebody totally unrelated to that hierarchy.
In my personal case, the "closest" VC to me is in a different region than I am. Contacting him just about HAS to be wrong.
A problem, of course, that would be solved if we HAD a local Venture Captain :-(
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I thought that if there was no local Venture Captain you just directly contacted the Regional Coordinator.
Its a general list and depends on your definition of "local." Say you live in a suburb of Chicago, it would be reasonable to go to the Chicago VC. If you lived in Nebraska and the closest one on the list was Chicago, clearly they are not providing oversight to your area. Many VC's cover very large swathes of geography (as much as an entire state or more), even moreso for non-US based areas where some VCs are overseeing events in multiple countries. That is not to say you cannot go directly to the RVC, but if someone escalates something to me and there is an applicable VC in the area, I'm going to kick it back to them before I take any action. The closer the leader is to the issue, the better attuned to the nuances of the area they will probably be. Not to mention their position deserves the respect of not being bypassed.
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Is there a distinction in workload between Venture Agent, Venture Lieutenant, and Venture Captain?
Not so much an issue of workload, more of level of responsibility. A Venture-Agent is designed to oversee the events at a single venue like a game store. So if there are questions/comments/concerns at that location, they should be the first point of contact.
Venture-Lieutenants oversee a larger area usually consisting of multiple venues and perhaps multiple VAs. They are more focused on area growth, convention coordination, and providing support to the individual VA/venue, but also GM games at the FLGS
Venture-Captains cover an ever larger footprint, focused on campaign growth, larger regional events (conventions, charity events), coordinating support of unusual events like libraries, youth (PSA) events, as well as general community oversight and compliance. They can be found at the FLGS, but also tend to travel around their area visiting the various venues their staff oversees.
Regional Venture-Coordinators as is evident from the coordinator's page oversee huge geographic regions and all the volunteer staff therein, often consisting of dozens of VCs and their subordinate VO teams. While we are still often involved in the coordination of events at our FLSG, our primary focus is on campaign growth, data accumulation and reporting, campaign audits/compliance, direct support to the OPC, and other top-down projects like the RSP program.
Obviously, the time investment can vary greatly based on individual and the needs of the area, but generally speaking your "workload" increases as you go up the chain. As an example, depending on the time of year, new initiatives, etc, I generally spend between 10-20 hours a week working on various PFS-related projects from reading forums/blogs, to providing direct support to the VO team. That does not include my time spent playing or GMing.
Dunno if that is what you were looking for, but I hope it provides a bit more insight into the program.