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I have a crazy GM who wants to do a 3 class Gestalt game. Advice?


Advice

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Shadow Lodge

Another philosophy is to go for the weird concepts that don't usually work with single classes


Hey, does anyone know if Spellslinger Wizard/Magus (unsure if it should have an archetype)/Savage Technologist Barbarian would work? Dual wielding a sword and a gun, and the gun can cast spells from Spellslinger, and the sword can have touch spells from Magus.

That's just something I thought up.

Anyways, thanks for all the advice everyone. Lots of great ideas so far. Shame I can't use them all.

Shadow Lodge

Ryze Kuja, are you aware that you can edit your posts to add things you've forgotten to mention?

Reksew_Trebla wrote:
Hey, does anyone know if Spellslinger Wizard/Magus (unsure if it should have an archetype)/Savage Technologist Barbarian would work? Dual wielding a sword and a gun, and the gun can cast spells from Spellslinger, and the sword can have touch spells from Magus.

Seeing a few issues with this. (1) You can't use spell combat while dual wielding - even if you don't TWF you need a free hand to provide somatic components. (2) You can't cast spells with somatic components when both hands are occupied, as when dual wielding. (3) You can't cast spells while raging.

Snowlilly wrote:
Weirdo wrote:
Snowlilly wrote:
Bladebound Kensai/Wizard/Whirling Dervish Swashbuckler.
...Dervishing still works fine, though you miss out on Int to panache. Another option for a Dex Magus gestalt would be to use Fighter or Avenger Vigilante instead of Swash since Lethal/Trained Grace gives you a damage boost when you use Dex to hit but Str for damage.

While fighter was my first impulse, I went with swashbuckler for good reflex saves + precise strike. Evasive at 11'th is also a good deal.

Giving up all those bonus feats does hurt though.

I'd also probably go with your build for a scimitar - but if one wants a different weapon, Fighter is there.

Snowlilly wrote:

Another thing to consider is action economy. A lot of builds can only act as a single class in any given round. "Do I want to cast a wizard or cleric spell this round?" Kensai is the glue that allows you to fully bind a full caster to a full martial and act as both in the same round. Superior action economy is often the deciding factor in combat.

Kensai is chosen over baseline magus because wizard forces you to forgo armor. Might as well trade in the armor proficiency you cannot use for something you can. Likewise, the reduced spellcasting from kensai means less when you already have full casting from wizard.

Oh, agreed. Though action economy tends to be less of an issue for mostly-martial gestalts like Fighter//Zen Archer//Inquisitor because you can combine passive benefits with a handful of swift-action buffs to good effect: Weapon Training + Flurry + Feats + Bane = OUCH.


Oh I forgot about Spell Combat needing a free hand. Well it's probably not going to be allowed in the game, but the Kasatha race has 4 arms. If not allowed, then a 2 level dip into Alchemist for Vestigial Arm would work. The only question is which class is the one that is 2 levels behind for the dip.

And I know you can't cast while raging, but that's the thing, you can't cast spells forever; sooner or later you'll run out. Raging with a gun and not getting a penalty to ac and actually getting a boost from increased dex allows this build to fight when they need to save spells or worse, run out.


Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
Meh I'd probably just not bother with with the dragon disciple stuffgo Dex and Cha and rely on spells till you can buy an amulet of agile might fists

You could take the Dragon Disciple instead of scaled fist levels, since gestalt is pick 3 classes at each level, and merge them. Then you have full sorc/oracle and get bonus spells in sorc too! And if you want some more synergy between your classes, doing Sorc20/oracle20/(Scaled fist 1, magus 9, Dragon disciple 10) would give you a good use for all those spells while doing your unarmed damage, as broad study would let you get spell strike and spell combat on all your spells for sorc and oracle

(Sorc 13, DD7)/Oracle 20/(Scaled fist 8, Magus 9, DD 3) also gives you all the same benefits if sorcerer casting is capped at HD.

And go ahead and make those magus levels be eldritch scion - Draconic bloodline with bloodline havoc while you are at it, keeping with the draconic theme.

Shadow Lodge

Reksew_Trebla wrote:

Oh I forgot about Spell Combat needing a free hand. Well it's probably not going to be allowed in the game, but the Kasatha race has 4 arms. If not allowed, then a 2 level dip into Alchemist for Vestigial Arm would work. The only question is which class is the one that is 2 levels behind for the dip.

And I know you can't cast while raging, but that's the thing, you can't cast spells forever; sooner or later you'll run out. Raging with a gun and not getting a penalty to ac and actually getting a boost from increased dex allows this build to fight when they need to save spells or worse, run out.

How likely to you think you are to run out of spells with both wizard and magus casting?

And even if you do run out eventually, it would be better to pick a class that provides abilities you can use both before and after your spells run out - even if it's slightly less effective without spells than the savage technologist. I think the only benefits you keep when not raging are BAB, HD, DR, and TWF - which doesn't work with spell combat even if you do have a vestigal arm. Crack Shot (the savage technologist's Dex-to-firearm-damage ability) only applies while raging.

For example, if you take 5 levels in gunslinger and then switch to fighter, you get the full BAB and HD plus Dex to damage with the gun all the time, a handful of deeds, nimble +1, a few levels of good Ref save, lots of bonus feats, and in the long run Weapon Training.

Shadow Lodge

Just going to say this: gestalt is usually just 2 classes


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I play gestalt all the time. I find it's better to develop a character then find classes to make it work. This is how my favorite character was made. I knew I wanted a kobald that wanted to be a dragon. To do this I went with a sorcerer/dragon disciple on the other side of things his story took him towards being a paladin of Bahamut. If I were to make him again today it would be as a paladin/bloodrager as his sorcerer side is not something I care much about. If I was given the option for a third class, I'd look for dragonlike abilities that I feel those two classes dont cover, if I can't find that I'd go with something that added passive stats such as fighter or ranger. For Zighergo I'd look at kineticist first as he lacks a go to ranged attack that fits his flavor.

The other thing to keep in mind is that different tables have different rules. We had to introduce a rule limiting how many characters you could play during combat (2 for us). I had a Druid / Ranger that had 3 fully powered animal companions. It got a little out of hand.

Here are some of the 2 class characters and what third class I would think about adding:

Beast master ranger/ pack lord Druid. I would change Druid to hunter (he was made before hunter) and add fighter. The reason for this is many feats have been utilized to keep his wolves strong enough and some feats to make his fighting better would be the biggest improvement.

Gunslinger/ Inquisitor (duel wields guns underworld style). Slayer would be really good for this character.

Sorcerer/Oracle (pyro). I always felt he needed some skill credits and social skills to utilize his high charisma. I'd start with rogue or maybe inquisitor. Bard seems like it would work, but doesn't fit the character. The other option would be pyrokineticist to beat his fire theme even more into the ground.

Un-Monk/Kineticist (earth). This is hard as the character already feels complete. Obviously fighter would be find, but not as necessary as he isn't hurting for feats. I think I would look for something to enhance his earth tricks. A shaman or similar magically inclined class would give him more to do out of combat.

Kineticist (pyro)/ summoner (think ghost rider but riding a fiery dog)- this character needs a full BAB. Paladin would be really good here as it would also give him staying power in battle (save bonuses, better health, and LoH)

I can add some more if you are interested.


Elan Chaotic Surge Wilder / Vitalist (Intercessor or Mender) / Paladin (Holy Gun if you want)

Max Charisma, Dex=Wis>Con=Int>Str

The following powers gain the Network descriptor when manifested by a vitalist: all powers of the [healing] subdiscipline, animal affinity, biofeedback, body of iron, endorphin surge, expansion, oak body, physical acceleration, sustenance, suspend life, timeless body, and vigor.

Collective Healing is insane. Plus, you can haste, enlarge, increase HP of your entire party.

As paladin, you are immune to fear, charm, compulsions, disease. +Cha to Saves. You can give your entire party Smite Evil with Aura of Justice. 4/4 BAB. Swift LoH on yourself, use collective healing to redistribute ability drains and healing. No shaken condition from Psychic Enervation because you're immune to fear.

As Chaotic Wilder at lvl20 with +3 Surge Crystal, the new Overchannel+Wild Surge Feat, and a +1ML Ioun Stone, you're looking at a ML42 whenever you hit a 4 (which happens more often than you might expect). Maximized Split Psi Ray on Disintegration with a 4 Surge would be 72d6 +72d6, so static 432 dmg +432 dmg with a Fort Save DC: 28 + Cha Mod, twice. Potential 864 dmg if they fail both saves.

Get the new Wilder feats from Psionics Augmented: Wilder to nullify all the negatives (Dazed condition) from Psychic Enervation and reduce your PE chance to 15%. You'll basically have a 15% chance to lose 10PP and you'll hit like a God. With all the negatives of a Chaotic Surge gone and/or reduced, there's no reason to not swing for the fences and Wild Surge every round.

In lieu of Paladin, consider Sorcerer, Bard, or Psion (for 36 additional powers, a third class giving 343PP, and bonus Psionic Feats).


Get Bracers of Martial Surging, every time you wild surge it gives you points that you can spend on Psionic weapon enchants that are specific to the Soulknife.

Also, get all this stuff -----v and get Astral Construct, Hustle, Fission and Schism with EK.

Lvl1 - Mind Thrust, Psicrystal Affinity
Lvl2 - Vigor
Lvl3 - Empower Power
Lvl4 - Share Pain, Inertial Armor (Extra Power Known from Elan Favored Class 1/4)
Lvl5 - Psionic Meditation
Lvl6 - Concussive Onslaught
Lvl7 - Expanded Knowledge(EK): Energy Missile
Lvl8 - Telekinetic Maneuver, Solicit Psicrystal (Extra Power Known),
Lvl9 - EK: Metamorphosis
Lvl10 - Fold Space
Lvl11 - EK: Remote Viewing
Lvl12 - Retrieve, Incarnate (Extra Power Known)
Lvl13 - EK: Energy Current
Lvl14 - Disintegration
Lvl15 - Split Psionic Ray
Lvl16 - Barred Mind, Energy Wave (Extra Power Known)
Lvl17 - Psicrystal Containment
Lvl18 - Reality Revision
Lvl19 - Maximize Power
Lvl20 - Shadow Body, Greater Psychoport (Extra Power Known


At 20, 4 surge on vigor = 42x5, so 210 temp health for your whole collective. As long as you have PP, your party has an endless stream of HP. And it only costs 20pp and 3d8 health. As a Vitalist, you can easily heal this.

At lvl 1, with the trait Psigifted: Mind Thrust, you gain +1ML to that power, so it's 2d10. If you surge it, it's 1d10-4d10, and it gets straight up ridiculous from there. Lvl2, it's 3d10, or 2d10-5d10 with surge. Lvl 3 is Empower Power and WS+2, so manifesting normally is 4d10, or 2d10-8d10, or Empower+Surge is (power fails), 4d10 (+50%) dmg if you surge normally, and 6d10 (+50%) on a 4.

Currently, my Chaotic Wilder is lvl 7 in my own campaign. Empowered Mind Thrust is 12d10 (+50%) on a 4 (Will DC:23), 9d10 (+50%) on a 2 or 3 (DC: 22), or 3d10 (+50%) on a 1 (DC: 19). My Empowered Energy Missile is 11d6+11 (+50%) cold/fire dmg to 7 targets on a 4 surge (Fort/Refl DC: 23), 8d6+8 (+50%) to 7 targets on a 2 or 3, or 2d6+2 (+50%) to 7 targets on a 1.

Last session, we got into a pretty epic fight; we got ambushed, and at one point I had 4 HP left. I hit a 3 surge on Vigor, giving me and Psicrystal 50 HP, then I hit a 4 surge on Inertial Armor for a +10 AC, then casted Share Pain.

Basically, I have a 25% chance to suck, but it does about as much damage (or slightly less) as any other character at lvl 7. I have a 75% chance to end the encounter. Nothing can save vs your absolutely ridiculous DC's. Chaotic Wilders melt faces. If you take away the negatives of the Chaotic Surge using the feats from Psionics Augmented: Wilder, you have free reign to bring the pain every round.

Shadow Lodge

I'm just very much not a fan of Chaotic wilder
You don't have a 25%chance to suck
It's closer to 50%
Because you also have a chance of getting your manifestor level reduced

One thing good about vitalist is sharing any source of healing to include fast healing
Tumor familiars can join the collective and have fast healing 5


Next level, I get Telekinetic Maneuver and Solicit Psicrystal. It's an additional ML+Cha Mod to your CMB for 8 rounds to deliver Bull Rush, Trip, Grapple/Pin, or Disarm attempts at 180ft, and my Psicrystal can maintain it for me with Solicit Psicrystal as a swift action (My CMB will be +15, I've already started boosting Cha with Ioun stones, and next level I get another Ability Score +1). And while my Psicrystal maintains Telekinetic Maneuver for me, I'm free to nuke, control, run, UMD...

Chaotic Wilder is so good...

At lvl 12, you have Surge+4 and hopefully a +1 Surge Crystal, and you're an interdimensional Carmen San Diego. You can manifest Retrieve through Remote Viewing. You can spy too, obviously.

Also at lvl12, Telekinetic Maneuver+Solicit Psicrystal (for Grapple/Pin & Disarm) + Retrieve: "Hey BBEG, that's an awfully nice 'Chalice of Ending the World' you're holding..."

Concentration check to cast spells or manifest a power against you while grappled/pinned is DC: 1d20 + Your CMB (1d20+ML+Cha)+ level of spell/power to be casted/manifested.

And I have Incarnate at lvl 12. Time to start making things permanent, like detect psionics, elfsight and anything else you want.


Rolling a 1 isn't that bad. You just deal 3d10 (+50%) at lvl 7 and swing for the bleachers again next round. The real issue about Chaotic Wilder is the Enervation, and solely because of Daze condition for a full round.

The -ML or -MLx2 PP from enervation also sucks, but not nearly as bad as being Dazed for a full round. Or being Shaken if your power fails, which will never happen to you if you're a Paladin. You're immune to Fear at lvl 3.


43ML Max Emp Mind Thrust is 37d10 (+50%), so 555 dmg, Will Save: 29 + Cha Mod.


If you roll a 1 surge on a Max Emp Mind Thrust at lvl20, considering Overchannel, +1ML Ioun stone, and a +3 Surge Crystal, that would be 10d10 (+50%), so a static 150 dmg.

If you roll 2 or 3, it's 28d10 (+50%), so static 420 dmg.


As a Vitalist, your Collective becomes planar at lvl 15, and interplanar at lvl 19. If you haven't checked out Vitalist in a while, go check out the Vitalist Methods. I recommend Intercessor or Mender.


Another fun idea that is focused on doing one thing well while being able to do a plenthora of things is a hobgoblin fellrider idea i had converted to this:

Classes + arctypes are: Hellrider Cavalier, Negotiator Bard, and one of the following, Dragon Heir fighter (Want to specalize in beings AOE demorilize gives you standard action Dazzling display) or Orcale if you want to be able to fully take advantage of there low saves and become Str/Cha with no need for dex even.

Level 5 Snapshot of a charge to give an idea of how this monster works in combat this doesnt take into account either the Oracle or the Fighter sides.

Charge attack if it hits you get a free action Demoralize. Your Demoralize check is equal to 8 (Ranks + Class skill) + 4 (Racial) + 2.5 (Racial favored bonus) + 2.5 (Being a mounted hellrider) + 2.5 (Negotatior bard) + 2.5 (Vengeance Cavalier) + x (Cha mod) = 22 + Cha mod (no trait bonus included)

Negotator bard allows you to take 10. So that means you have a 32 Demoralize. Which basicly means any creature with a HD + Wisd of less then 22+ your Cha mod is demoralized.

If you take skill unlock intimidate then that also means if you exceed by 10 they have to save or be frightened.

If you use one of the bards rogue talents to pick up mein of Despair the also lose all moral bonuses and cannot benfit from them for 1d4 +1 rounds.

__________________________________________

The choice of fighter or orcale is a little but on what you want to be able to do the fighter will let you easily spread all of this intimidating love to everything around you.

The oracle will let you combine the shaken penalty to saves with the bard song fast talk to give people use penalties against your compulsion spells.

You can also be a party face with either as the bard gets 1/2 level to bluff diplomacy and sense motive as well.

Shadow Lodge

Ultimate Blacksmith(for if you are going for a blacksmith who took to using his weapons when destiny called on him to)

Best as a human or Dwarf both mechanically and flavor-wise

If Human take the alternate race trait to get lots of skill focuses put that skill focuses into spellcraft and craft (whatever your specialty is)

spark of creation and Rough and Ready for your two traits

lots of crafting feats obviously

cooperative crafting (teamwork feat)

Deific Obedience (torug)+Versatile Obedience for +1 to hit with your warhamer fabricate and Crafters Fortune or Greater Magic weapon as spell like abilities, 10% cost/time reduction (35% price to craft with spark of creation) and one other ability that doesn't really matter for the build like touch of artifice

Warpriest (force priest)/Alchemist(mindchemyst)/fighter (eldritch guardian, take iuon wyard, homuclous or clockwork familiar as your familiar)

int and wis are important, as is strength. Dex and Cha are dump stats

crafting is not only cheep (35%) but also fast (deific obedience turns the money discount into a time one too, and you have cooperative casting with a familiar who has your teamwork feats (and combat feats) and reliable (ranks +half level +int+3+1 to craft skills)

also using an advanced weapon training you can add your weapon training bonus as an extra enchantment bonus like a magus can (I feel this is mechanically apropriate)


Wizard/Occultist/Alchemist.

Occultists Evocation, Conjuration and Necromancy implements all complement a Wizards spells in those schools well.

Transmutation implement boosts the Alchemist mutagen effects with physical buffs. Or take cognotagen and use the Transmutation implement to offset the physical reduction.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Make it a silk sworn occultist for more casting focus if you go that route.


Now to Tri-Salt (tripple gestalt) one of my Favorite characters

Jo'Vassa

who is Jo'Vassa:
Jo'Vassa is a CG Gnoll who has sold his soul for power to the patron deity of the Gnolls (aka the mother of monsters)
He became the head priestess of this deity gaining the half succubus template (without the stat adjustment) some scaling fire spell like abilities charisma to AC (it's also flavor texted as the source of his oracle abilities)

On the downside: he looses his soul, his first three feats were required to be deific and demonic obedience and Noble scion (chillex), he's forbidden from wearing any armor with any ACP or any non revealing clothes, he must allow the mother of monsters to feel see taste and hear everything he does and must change gender to female and must try to advance the goals and ideals of Lamentashu. For this campaign this generally means killing these creatures called Primal Beasts whenever possible, convert as many people as possible to worshiping her and a mandate to "make more monsters" if he fails at these tasks he'll be tortured and/or eaten for eternity.

He's trying to convert her to the side of good.
She is making him/her into more of a monster (next of her goals is fusing her snake animal companion with her tail)


Mechanically he has 2 1d6+str+grab slam attacks, and a bite with grab and eventual poison and oracle casting and snake summoning abilities and fire magics

First step on the gestalt is taking the succubus class from necromancers of the northwest

The next side is a tad difficult

Abyssal sorcerer would make thematic sense, and would make summons more powerful

But I'm thinking Paladin (maybe with the evangelist PrC)
First off because most of the abilities of a paladin are passive but would make grappling easier with full BAB
My crazy charisma bonus to all saves would be amazing not to mention smite

Paizo Employee Community & Digital Content Director

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Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

I was super excited to play in a SOLO tristalt game over on the play-by-post boards, but I got abandoned by the GM after about a month. Incredibly disappointing, as I was enjoying playing the character a great deal.


Paladin/Derwish of Dawn/Synthesist Summoner - Cha-based monstrosity, with Smite+doubled Bardic performance, still got some spells

Pre-Errata Scarred Witchdoctor/Bloodrager/X - cast with Con while raging, add Fighter, Cavalier or Paladin for extra boom

Smashbuckler/Eldritch Scion Magus/Sorcerer or Oracle - Cha-based, Fence and Spellstrike and get a full progression

Daring Champion Cavalier/Hexcrafter Magus/Witch - same as above, but Int based

White Haired Witch/Brawler/Magus - Fight with your hair using Int and Spell Combat

Unchained Monk/Empyreal Sorcerer/Druid - two full casting progressions, wild shape+Unarmed Strike work well together


I3igAl wrote:


Paladin/Derwish of Dawn/Synthesist Summoner - Cha-based monstrosity, with Smite+doubled Bardic performance, still got some spells

Pre-Errata Scarred Witchdoctor/Bloodrager/X - cast with Con while raging, add Fighter, Cavalier or Paladin for extra boom

Smashbuckler/Eldritch Scion Magus/Sorcerer or Oracle - Cha-based, Fence and Spellstrike and get a full progression

Daring Champion Cavalier/Hexcrafter Magus/Witch - same as above, but Int based

White Haired Witch/Brawler/Magus - Fight with your hair using Int and Spell Combat

Unchained Monk/Empyreal Sorcerer/Druid - two full casting progressions, wild shape+Unarmed Strike work well together

bloodragers can only cast bloodrager spells while raging not other classes spells


Lady-J wrote:
I3igAl wrote:


Paladin/Derwish of Dawn/Synthesist Summoner - Cha-based monstrosity, with Smite+doubled Bardic performance, still got some spells

Pre-Errata Scarred Witchdoctor/Bloodrager/X - cast with Con while raging, add Fighter, Cavalier or Paladin for extra boom

Smashbuckler/Eldritch Scion Magus/Sorcerer or Oracle - Cha-based, Fence and Spellstrike and get a full progression

Daring Champion Cavalier/Hexcrafter Magus/Witch - same as above, but Int based

White Haired Witch/Brawler/Magus - Fight with your hair using Int and Spell Combat

Unchained Monk/Empyreal Sorcerer/Druid - two full casting progressions, wild shape+Unarmed Strike work well together

bloodragers can only cast bloodrager spells while raging not other classes spells

There's a feat, Mad Magic I believe, where a Bloodrager can cast spells from any class he has while Bloodraging.

Shadow Lodge

Yep: Mad Magic.

Shadow Lodge

Ultimate tank build

Elan aegis x/paladin x/alchemist (vivisectionist, churchegen) 2/ vitalist (soul thief sadist) x-2
Use FCB to get more power points, for an Elan they are like HP but better
Take the tumor familiar (defender archetype) at your second level and then as possible add it to your vitalist collective. You now basically have the familiar's fast healing and an extra emergency stash of HP for your other vitalist abilities (and a small bonus to AC against the first few attacks in a round)

Use all your first level paladin spells on a nifty spell called heroic defiance which lets you use lay on hands as an immediate action+1d6 cured

Your ageis levels give you DR 12/-, a bonus to Con and/or Dex and/or Str until you get a belt, an extra pair of arms to hold a shield (with the tier 3 version of this ability, you can do something crazy like wield a tower shield and great sword at once or 2wf with great swords, the tier 2 ability will let you have your great sword, a heavy shield and a potion at once, the tier one ability will at least let you have two potions in hand) you can also get a psi crystal, flight and immunity/resistance to your active energy type

Once a day you can reconfigure your suit mid combat to suit your foe
Fighting the big bad caster? Give yourself power resistance, evasion and stalwart (evasion but for fort/will)

Required feats
Psionic meditation (move action to regain your psionic focus which in turn lets you pick a new psionic active energy type)
A feat to let you expend your psionic focus to do something (ex psionic weapon)

Required trait (accelerated drinker)

Spend any extra feats on psionic body and psionic talent feats for more HP and power points

Dark Archive

Paladin/Bard/Oracle. That's Full BAB, d10 HD, 6+INT skills a level plus Versatile Performance, all Good saves, Martial weapon proficiency, either Light armor or CHA to AC with a Revelation, and three spellcasting lists with a variety of combat and non-combat spells of varying level progressions. You get access to Smite and Inspire Courage, the single best offense abilities in the game for self- and party-buffs, along with Lay On Hands for strong self-healing and condition removal. Best part is they all run off Charisma for class features so you have an easier time allocating ability scores than most other combos.

Be the Paladin/Bard/Oracle of Shelyn. She would appreciate the beauty of the complementary classes.

Dark Archive

Another good one would be Unchained Monk / Inquisitor / Ecclesitheurge Cleric, for similar reasons as the combo above - Flurry and Bane are huge damage boosts that combo with each other beautifully (bonus attacks with a single weapon means no need for Dual Bane). Wisdom to AC and a scaling bonus negates the one downside of Ecclesitheurge, and in exchange you get an Arcane Bond and a flexible domain/inquisition for an incredibly versatile caster. The Inquisitor brings out-of-combat utility with Stern Gaze and their spell list. Altogether a very well-rounded character.

Sub in Warpriest for Inquisitor if you want to improve your action economy. Casting spells as a Swift action allows you to buff that much faster, and with Fate's Favored you have a strong offensive boost in Divine Favor. I personally prefer Inquisitor for the utility and Bane, but Warpriest definitely has a place in more combat-heavy games.


I have some unfortunate news about this. It seems the crazy GM who was going to run this game is probably leaving our group, as he has missed a lot of sessions in a row now. He claims he isn't, but the fact remains that it's been like 7 sessions in a row now that he's missed, some of them for bs reasons like having to babysit his 15 year old brother, who should be more than capable of taking care of himself for a few days since he's 15, or the time he claimed he needed to study (when we know that was bs because we saw him get online on his xbox since he's on my mom's friend list, whose place we game at). So anyways, it looks like this game won't happen. I'm thinking of maybe trying a play by post as the GM myself to run one, just cause I've liked a lot of these ideas and would like to try some of them out with evil NPCs, but I've been sick this past week or so, so we'll see if I feel up to it soon.

Anyways, if y'all are gonna suggest new stuff, I suggest you give me ideas for evil characters.

Now then, I had part of an idea for a character, a Sorcerer Dragon Drinker 20/Blank 10/Blank 10/Dragon Disciple 10/Bloatmage 10. Would that be any good? Not sure what to put on the blanks, maybe Bloodrager and Oracle, but this looks like it should be good to me, in theory anyways.


I don't remember if it's been mentioned previously in the thread, but Imperious Sorcerer&Bard. Sorc increases morale and competence bonuses by 1 which bard can provide with inspire courage/good hope. Third class could be either bloodrager (morale bonus for rage) or paladin (and you could probably cook up Fate's Favored in there too with Divine Favor).

It's not a very clean build and need a lot of pre-buffing, but it's an idea to keep in mind.


Evil Campaign 3 class Gestalt campaign?

Race: Kasatha (4 arms, get TWF and two Greatswords and two bucklers)

Anti-Paladin 20, Cross-blooded (Orc/Dragon) Sorcerer1 w/ Evocation-Admixture or Necromancy Wizard19, Vitalist1 w/ Student Surge Wilder19

Cha=Str > Int > Wis=Con > Dex

Get Extra Cruelties and Extra Touch of Corruption feat for Anti-Paladin. With 4 arms, you can have all kinds of fun with Touch Attacks and have some absolutely insane debuffs, and afflict these on creatures that are normally immune to these effects.

Cross Blooded Sorc1 for obvious reasons. Evocation-Admixture for blasting, Necromancy for a small army of undead. Necromancy Wizard would fit better than Evocation-Admixture for action economy (imho). So, your choice.

Vitalist1 for Collective Healing, Student Surge Wilder19 (Use the same build as the Chaotic Wilder I mentioned earlier, except add 5 more free EK's for your improved surge bond). Heal everyone as free actions whenever they cause healing or ability score restoration with collective healing (even with others drink potions), and nuke like a champ when you need to.


Sorcerer/Oracle/(anti-)Paladin, bring that charisma through the roof!

lvl 9 arcane spell list, lvl 9 divine spell list, full BAB, d10, self heal, great saves, various buffs... :)

I do like replacing sorcerer with either bard or skald though.


Race: Drider

Wis > Str=Int=Dex > Con > Cha

Cleric20 (Death and Destruction Domains) / Crossblooded Sorc1 with 19Necromancer Wizard / Unchained-Monk20

Destructive Aura (Su): At 8th level, you can emit a 30-foot aura of destruction for a number of rounds per day equal to your cleric level. All attacks made against targets in this aura (including you) gain a morale bonus on damage equal to 1/2 your cleric level and all critical threats are automatically confirmed. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.

Imagine that with an army of undead at your side. AND as a Wizard, get Summon Monster and summon a couple Cyclops. That's an awful lot of auto-crits and auto-confirmed crits...

"Once per day as an immediate action, a cyclops can peer into an occluded visual spectrum of possible futures, gaining insight that allows it to select the exact result of one die roll before the roll is made. This effect can alter an action taken by the cyclops only, and cannot be applied to the rolls of others."

With Death Domain, you become healed by Channel Negative Energy, and so do all your undead minions (but not the cyclops, obviously).

Adding 20 levels of Monk to this monstrosity... may the Gods have mercy upon thine enemies.

In lieu of Monk, Anti-Paladin, Barbarian, Fighter, War Priest, just about anything synergizes well.


So a Magus X/Wizard (1/2)X/Eldritch Knight (1/2)X/Fighter X-2/Alchemist 2

So when EK is level 10, if he scores a critical hit, he can use two spells total in that round, one from Spell Combat, and one from Spell Critical. With Alchemist 2, he can take Vestigial Arm, so he can TWF with Spell Combat for a greater chance at landing a critical.

Is EK really worth it though? Might have to change Fighter to full Alchemist so that the full BAB of EK isn't wasted.


Reksew_Trebla wrote:

So a Magus X/Wizard (1/2)X/Eldritch Knight (1/2)X/Fighter X-2/Alchemist 2

So when EK is level 10, if he scores a critical hit, he can use two spells total in that round, one from Spell Combat, and one from Spell Critical. With Alchemist 2, he can take Vestigial Arm, so he can TWF with Spell Combat for a greater chance at landing a critical.

Is EK really worth it though? Might have to change Fighter to full Alchemist so that the full BAB of EK isn't wasted.

You cannot TWF or flurry with spell combat.

It has nothing to do with hands available.


Goblin_Priest wrote:

Sorcerer/Oracle/(anti-)Paladin, bring that charisma through the roof!

lvl 9 arcane spell list, lvl 9 divine spell list, full BAB, d10, self heal, great saves, various buffs... :)

I do like replacing sorcerer with either bard or skald though.

Arcane spell failure is a thing, thats why I did the sorc/oracle/scaled fist unchained monk, still full bab and with all good saves and D10s but you don't need armor or take to a particular mystery to get CHA to bab.


Reksew_Trebla wrote:

So a Magus X/Wizard (1/2)X/Eldritch Knight (1/2)X/Fighter X-2/Alchemist 2

So when EK is level 10, if he scores a critical hit, he can use two spells total in that round, one from Spell Combat, and one from Spell Critical. With Alchemist 2, he can take Vestigial Arm, so he can TWF with Spell Combat for a greater chance at landing a critical.

Is EK really worth it though? Might have to change Fighter to full Alchemist so that the full BAB of EK isn't wasted.

Sounds awesome, but Eldritch Knights are unofficially banned from Gestalt, along with Arcane Trickster. They're too good in Gestalt to be balanced. I say "unofficially" because you can always ask the DM, but don't be upset when he says no :P

Dark Archive

Ryze Kuja wrote:
Reksew_Trebla wrote:

So a Magus X/Wizard (1/2)X/Eldritch Knight (1/2)X/Fighter X-2/Alchemist 2

So when EK is level 10, if he scores a critical hit, he can use two spells total in that round, one from Spell Combat, and one from Spell Critical. With Alchemist 2, he can take Vestigial Arm, so he can TWF with Spell Combat for a greater chance at landing a critical.

Is EK really worth it though? Might have to change Fighter to full Alchemist so that the full BAB of EK isn't wasted.

Sounds awesome, but Eldritch Knights are unofficially banned from Gestalt, along with Arcane Trickster. They're too good in Gestalt to be balanced. I say "unofficially" because you can always ask the DM, but don't be upset when he says no :P

Mystic Theurge too. To simplify, any prestige class which combines two classes together and progresses abilities from both is banned. That means Battle Herald, Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trixkster, Mystic Theurge, and a whole ton of other ones.

Safest bet is to just not use prestige classes when gestalting.


Druid / Monk (chained) / Warpriest

Wild shaping full caster with wis to AC, perfect saves, swift action spells, and standard action summons.

Wildshape and Warpriest buffs will make up your melee offense without having to sacrifice much if any wisdom.


Eldritch Scoundrel URogue/Teisatsu vigilante/Esoteric Magus
d8hp, 6+ skill points, all good saves, 2 sets of magus spell slots.

Eldritch Scoundrel allows spell slots to be used as ki and doesn't limit it it's spells + gains rogue/ninja talents. Also dex hit/damage and sneak attack...

Teisatsu vigilante gets a ki pool and selects monk/ninja/vigilante talents. Also hidden strike [and it's different than sneak attack so both should apply]...

Esoteric magus gets arcane pool that counts as ki, monk unarmed strike/spellstrike, Arcana and bonuses to light armor AC.

So 3 'pools' of ki and/or arcane and Ki Arcana allows them to be used interchangeably. Access to rogue/ninja/monk/magus talents/tricks/power/arcana. So lots of sneaky, stabby, spellstriking fun. mainly dex and Int based with a non-negative cha [for Teisatsu ki pool]. Bonus points if you also add Darklantern to vigilante for a +2 dex/cha and other drow goodies.

Shadow Lodge

Ultimate big good (or at least big law) to fight an evil (or better yet chaotic party)

Two versions of this, one that can have any lawful alignment and one that has to be LG

The LG one is a bit more MAD, but both are incredibly powerful and versatile

LG version:
War priest (Arsenal champion)/paladin(chosen one)/arcanist(blade adept)/hellknight PrC

Lawful version
Fighter (eldritch guarian) /magus (hex crafter)/wizard or arcanist

To set the scene

You see a large humanoid figure in thick addamanite armor blocking your path with his weapon drawn
He says in a deep booming voice "none shall pass"

The party wizard gets first "I got this"
Dm: "he counterspells" (if arcanist this can be done as an immediate action)
The gunslinger goes next (guns being the normal counter for heavy armor) and the warrior swats the bullets from the air before beginning to glow brighter as he charges whoever is closer, smacking them with the weapon much harder than expected and cursing them for good measure

And then he proceeds to fight with full BaB, nearly full casting, smite chaos (maybe also evil), an improved familiar with your bab and half your HP (if

Shadow Lodge

Dang it . Didn't edit in time
I'll fix it later

Shadow Lodge

If you go eldritch guardian fighter instead of chosen one paladin the thing also has your combat feats which is great
If you pick assimar you could take a feat to add the celestial template to whatever familiar you want, even improved familiar. If you are A lawful neutral aasimar you could totally have a celestial imp, which is great for RP

Important feats

Combat reflexes

Cut/Smash from the air

Step up and strike

Advanced weapon training is important

Armor/shield mastery feats are cool and useful for this

Shadow Lodge

graystone wrote:

Eldritch Scoundrel URogue/Teisatsu vigilante/Esoteric Magus

d8hp, 6+ skill points, all good saves, 2 sets of magus spell slots.

Eldritch Scoundrel allows spell slots to be used as ki and doesn't limit it it's spells + gains rogue/ninja talents. Also dex hit/damage and sneak attack...

Teisatsu vigilante gets a ki pool and selects monk/ninja/vigilante talents. Also hidden strike [and it's different than sneak attack so both should apply]...

Esoteric magus gets arcane pool that counts as ki, monk unarmed strike/spellstrike, Arcana and bonuses to light armor AC.

So 3 'pools' of ki and/or arcane and Ki Arcana allows them to be used interchangeably. Access to rogue/ninja/monk/magus talents/tricks/power/arcana. So lots of sneaky, stabby, spellstriking fun. mainly dex and Int based with a non-negative cha [for Teisatsu ki pool]. Bonus points if you also add Darklantern to vigilante for a +2 dex/cha and other drow goodies.

Interesting concept, but playing a melee character in a tristalt game with only d8 HD, medium BAB, and little in the way of accuracy boosters strikes me as a bit risky.

If you're looking to keep the ki pool shenanigans without sacrificing casting, I'd suggest Eldritch Scoundrel//Esoteric Magus//Unchained Monk or Enlightened Paladin. It only comes with 4 skill points and is a bit more MAD (you'd want to start with at least a 13-14 Wis or Cha), but gets full BAB, d10 HD, and loads of other melee features, including the ki pool and an either Wis-based or Cha-based AC boost (important since the Eldritch Scoundrel can't wear armour). Of course, since OP is now looking for villains the Paladin doesn't work - unless willing to homebrew an "Enlightened Antipaladin" archetype, which I think would work fine as an LE "perfect assassin" idea. Add Crusader's Fist for extra punch.

If vigilante identity is important then Warlock//Esoteric Magus//Unchained Monk or Enlightened Paladin would have a similar effect, though Mystic Bolts turn into an inferior ranged backup option. Monk gives you actual ki powers to work with (though not ninja tricks) while Paladin gets to wear light armour. The Vigilante Finesse talent partly compensates for Rogue's Finesse.

Alternatively, if the idea is just to make a sneaky-stabby-magic tristalt, consider Stygian Slayer//Kineticist (void)//Bard or Investigator. Full BAB, all good saves, 6 skills, lots of combat buffs, partial casting, and assorted darkness themed powers including the ability to shoot or stab people with negative energy that also creates darkness. Could branch out into aether- or aerokinesis in order to get more ranged tricks or flight at 10th level.


Weirdo wrote:
Interesting concept, but playing a melee character in a tristalt game with only d8 HD, medium BAB, and little in the way of accuracy boosters strikes me as a bit risky.

You're forgetting the abilities you pick up that use ki.

Vanishing Trick and/or Smoke Bomb
have ranged attack [shortbow works well]
Add sneak attack/hidden strike
Add Debilitating Injury

So no need for melee, though attacking from reach is a possibility. Attacking from hidden/invisibility. Everyone gets the Debilitating Injury 'debuff', most likely starting with AC dropping. I never thought/intended it would be melee focused. The Esoteric Magus' unarmed spell strike would be for situations when melee comes to them or when a single round of attacks will kill it[invisible, move in, multiple flanking sneak attack/hidden strike chill touch unarmed strikes]...

Shadow Lodge

I'm not forgetting ki abilities. I'm currently GMing for a (non-gestalt) ninja. He's a great scout and does respectable - not fantastic - damage in melee and at range, but regularly gets incapacitated via poison, grappling, or good old being reduced below 0 HP. When he runs into characters that are immune to sneak attack his damage drops considerably. And in a gestalt game he's not comparing damage with a standard full-BAB martial but the samurai//rogue who just dices anything that gets within reach of his twin wakizashi, and who in tristalt would probably also pick up something like Investigator for extra buffs and utility.

Debilitating Injury helps, but first you have to successfully sneak attack your target, which may be difficult if they have a high flat-footed AC or - as is the case with that samurai//rogue - they have an ability like uncanny dodge.

Invisibility breaks when you attack - you can't take Master Ninja Tricks so you never get access to Greater Invisibility. That means one invisible attack per round - assuming that your opponent doesn't have See Invisibility. Smoke bombs are more robust but you need a way to see through your own bombs, it takes a standard instead of a swift action, and they can still be countered by things like Gust of Wind.

Hidden Strike only works at full strength for the first attack you make in an encounter. After that your opponent is aware of your presence and the damage dice drop to d4s. It's also vulnerable to being negated by the same things that negate Sneak Attack, ie uncanny dodge or inconsistent concealment.

You've also got a lot of melee features that are under-utilized if you plan on a primarily ranged build. These include the magus' spellstrike, and arcana such as accurate strike - hitting touch AC would be a great way to get Debilitating Injury onto someone, but it only works in melee. Also, Finesse Training doesn't work on bows, since bows aren't valid selections for Weapon Finesse, which means that you'll rely on strength for a ranged damage bonus.

This could still be an interesting fight as an NPC assassin depending on the party composition and their ability to counter the assassin's core tactics. If the assassin ends up forced into melee I'd expect them to die quickly. I probably wouldn't risk this character as a player where I'd have less control over the circumstances of engagement and the opponents I was facing. And diversifying the build in one of the ways I suggested makes the character significantly more reliable in combat for what I think is relatively little cost.

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