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Cool! Definitely looking forward to this AP. Been years since I participated in a Dragonlance campaign and I miss having dragons as key players of an engaging storyline.
One thing I would ask for is to allow for building relationships (as described in the Ultimate Relationships series) and factions (as described in Ultimate Factions) in this Dragon AP. This makes it easier to players to want to try non-aggressive tactics first with dragons to see if they can establish an alliance of sorts with some of them. :)
CB
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4
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My original pitch to Jason was a psychological horror AP, and then we batted this back and forth and I got really excited. For folks who know me, it takes a lot to make me more excited about something when a good horror story is on the table.
So, yeah. This got me to table horror aspirations. Read into that what you will :)
Now I want the psychological horror Ap... :/
Still excited about dragons, though...
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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My original pitch to Jason was a psychological horror AP, and then we batted this back and forth and I got really excited. For folks who know me, it takes a lot to make me more excited about something when a good horror story is on the table.
So, yeah. This got me to table horror aspirations. Read into that what you will :)
The horror AP is still on the list!
But this... oh yes... this is gonna be good!
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Robert...you just listed aa ton of my favorite things on this plante...just missing "The Reflecting Skin." ;)
Sorry for the threadjack and GREAT to hear that it's still on the list.
Jason: What you said about dragons rang true with me, eliminates my concerns regarding 3.X's late tendency to just cram half-dragon on everything. As long as you make dragons feel like dragons, like actual characters, and not random difficulty-spike-encounters, I'm good -and since that seems to be your plan, consider me to be fired up! ^^
It's too early to say for 100% certain, but my best guess at this point is that we would get writing going and do some art and map buys early just out of our ongoing revenues so that we could start releasing the adventures in the run-up to a Kickstarter compilation project next spring to fund the majority of the art and map buys and print/ship costs, allowing us to (hopefully) get the full thing completed and shipped to us in time for GenCon next year.
I'm in favor of the KS approach for the compilation project. But I like being able to get the entire piece in one shot, either as one bigger hardcover, or multiple smaller soft covers. Basically all at once is nicer for me than piece meal over time and getting it in a KS style seems to make that work for both me and LG. It's how I've got several large chunks of LG products because I can also get them in physical copies.
So this sounds pretty interesting. When might we hear more about this?
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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So this sounds pretty interesting. When might we hear more about this?
Robert and I are still banging away on the outline and major plot points. We hope to start assigning authors by the end of June, and that combined with completing the Forest Kingdom Campaign Compendium and fulfilling the print books for the Aethera Campaign Setting that just arrived today in my driveway will take up most of this month, so best guess for any major update (aside from the occasional art preview or teaser) would be beginning of July.
But little bits here and there may be coming sooner than you think!
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I hope in addition to evil dragons there will be lots of good dragons for the party to work with (would really like to get use out of my 3pp dragonrider book...just saying). Looking forward to this one, I love dragons.
I'll say that we're not aiming for a full-on Dragonlance style setting where the armies of good and evil dragons (once everyone is on the field) are more or less even, but there will be a number of opportunities to make friendly connections with dragons and maybe even saddle up.
sounds more interesting every day
big lover of dragons in rpgs, they are useful in all sorts of ways
I've been desiring a dragon AP for so long . . . I'm very intrigued by this one! I'll be watching its progression with great interest!
Journey to a lost continent.
Uncover a deadly past.
And watch your future die.
Coming 2018 from Legendary Games - , a massive 20-level adventure saga and campaign setting featuring dragons, the dream-time, and the conquest of two worlds!
So, Chrono Cross?
Seriously though, this sounds awesome. Sign me up!
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I've been desiring a dragon AP for so long . . . I'm very intrigued by this one! I'll be watching its progression with great interest!
It's something I've wanted to do for a long time too, and we'll be excited to start releasing more information about it as we nail down the outline and start bringing our authors on board.
It sounds like it'd fit in quite well with Golarions' Arcadia, especially if you mixed some of the native tribal history with a Polynesian-vibe. Plus the draconic history would give a reason why they'd use less technology compared to those across the sea.
You just got a buyer. Dragons in Paizo's APs have been either high ranking minions, secondary encounters (the white dragons in Jade Regent and Rise of the Runelords for example), or simple random encounters, not either the grand threats they should be or the movers and shakers that I truly love them as. The ward keeping the dragons asleep sounds like a variation of the mythal based Rage of the Dragons the elves set up in Forgotten Realms, where all dragons would rage across the continent and kill off the greatest of their number every so many years, based on the cycle of a comet the elves called the King Killer. They set this us so while the dragons would destroy parts of civilization, only the weaker dragons would survive, causing them to be less destructive and easier to take care of by elves or other Realms powers. Of course, the elves didn't foresee the rise of other civilizations that crowded them out, so the plan fell apart.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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It sounds like it'd fit in quite well with Golarions' Arcadia, especially if you mixed some of the native tribal history with a Polynesian-vibe. Plus the draconic history would give a reason why they'd use less technology compared to those across the sea.
On Golarion, I think Arcadia or probably Sarusan even more so would be great locations to place this AP.
It sounds like it'd fit in quite well with Golarions' Arcadia, especially if you mixed some of the native tribal history with a Polynesian-vibe. Plus the draconic history would give a reason why they'd use less technology compared to those across the sea.On Golarion, I think Arcadia or probably Sarusan even more so would be great locations to place this AP.
Heh.
Chronicler Bob: "What did you find?"Adventurer Joe: "I don't remember - it was Sarusan, but hey, loot!"
Chronicler Bob: "What did you do to piss off an entire continent?!!"
Adventurer Joe: "I told you, I don't remember! Maybe they want their loot back!"
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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It sounds like it'd fit in quite well with Golarions' Arcadia, especially if you mixed some of the native tribal history with a Polynesian-vibe. Plus the draconic history would give a reason why they'd use less technology compared to those across the sea.On Golarion, I think Arcadia or probably Sarusan even more so would be great locations to place this AP.Heh.
Chronicler Bob: "What did you find?"
Adventurer Joe: "I don't remember - it was Sarusan, but hey, loot!"
Chronicler Bob: "What did you do to piss off an entire continent?!!"
Adventurer Joe: "I told you, I don't remember! Maybe they want their loot back!"
Ahahahahaaaaa
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I think it will be a lot of fun to adapt it to my homebrew, especially as "Return to a lost continent. Uncover a deadly past." plays a big role in it. Might get interesting with the dragons, though, as I have specific ideas for them in my setting. Though from what Neil Spicer said in his post, it might be that this AP fits way better than I would have imagined from the AP title. Seems to be very similar to some of my own ideas I had for this setting, only much cooler.
As an aside, Jason: When you said 2018 in your original post, that was just a typo and you actually meant to say 2017, right? ;)
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Is the dreamtime in this setting based off Indiginous Australians dreamtime creation stories? I hope so, since that is such a rich tapestry that I haven't seen touched in any roleplay to,date.
Age of Worms had this one section filled with Giants fighting dragons in a cliffside city where the players were stuck in the middle. My players still talk about fighting flights of dragons as being one of the most terrifying things ever. Surviving a strafing run from 6 or 7 different types of dragons while rushing between cover trying to arm giant crossbows armed with dragon harpoons was tense.
Can I assume we'll be seeing stuff of that epic magnitude in this one?
Finally, are we looking to see dragon society more like Eberron than others. I loved Eberron for turning over the tropes on Chromatic and Metallic Dragons. The idea that colour may affect personality, but ambitions and the reading of the dragon scriptures truly dictated what the dragon in question was trying to do in the world. An ancient Red might be employing the PCs to stop a plan where his ancient Gold nemesis wants to wipe out the human settlements on the coast. Godly doesn't hate humans, she just knows that if they stay there, the scriptures talk of untold evil arising. Big red hates humans, but he hates Goldy more and will do anything to thwart her plans. That's how I like my dragons honestly. They think well beyond what mortals consider and have such alien concepts we seriously don't know why they act like they do.
I will consider dropping one of the later parts of this AP into my ongoing mythic campaign. I have high hopes for this AP!
Hmm, do I buy another AP to look pretty on my shelf?
Yes?
Dot.
You guys need a map showing when new kickstarters will launch. Too often I find myself interested in a kickstarter, but there are so many launching at once that I have to pick between them. I definitely want to get in on this!
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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You guys need a map showing when new kickstarters will launch. Too often I find myself interested in a kickstarter, but there are so many launching at once that I have to pick between them. I definitely want to get in on this!
That's a pretty good idea, Brother Fen. Things do move around from time to time, but at least having a benchmark of when things will launch is a good thought.
The target date for Conquest is probably around April or May of next year.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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So been over 6 months since the last post on this. Is it still happening or has news of 2e put it on the back burner?
Both!
Robert and I both got sucked into a variety of projects (gaming-related and otherwise) but were continuing to move things along in the background, but with the PF 2e release we put our heads together and decided it would make a lot more sense to push the project to next year so we could prepare and release it for PF1, PF2, and 5E.
An adventure path is a big and expensive project, and it felt like pushing ahead to release it now wouldn't be the best path to success. It also allows us to clear the decks of a lot of "mostly done" projects before we dive into something so big.
So, yes it is still on, but pushed back a year!
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Alrighty glad to see you'll still be doing it for PF1 as well.
Agreed.
I certainly think I'm the hero that makes things worse by trying to fix them. I have no skill ranks in Knowledge(Home Improvement). Any more tantalizing details? For me, these sound kind of like Tian Xia dragons, the atypical kind that are revered, until they are mad at you.
Oh, man. I saw this bumped and I was hoping the kickstarter was finally going to launch.
Please make this happen!
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Ashes of Empires AP Announcement.
P.S. Some of you might ask whatever happened to Conquest: Rage of Wyrms, the AP we announced the year before? The announcement of Pathfinder 2nd Edition made us rethink some things around our scheduling for a big adventure project, and around the same time both Robert Brookes and Jason Nelson got very busy with other work, to the point that they couldn’t devote the attention to pushing this one through as originally planned. Coincidentally, it was not long after that Greg, one of the founding members of Legendary Games, stepped up with a perfect alternative! In business you have to be flexible with plans and resources to make everything come together, and we are excited to bring Ashes of Empires to your table.
At the same time, we are still passionate about the project, but we just have to find the time to bring the right resources to bear to make it happen. It won’t be in 2019, but hopefully we can get it rolling in time to release in 2020! The dragons are waiting!!!
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Ashes of Empires AP Announcement.
P.S. Some of you might ask whatever happened to Conquest: Rage of Wyrms, the AP we announced the year before? The announcement of Pathfinder 2nd Edition made us rethink some things around our scheduling for a big adventure project, and around the same time both Robert Brookes and Jason Nelson got very busy with other work, to the point that they couldn’t devote the attention to pushing this one through as originally planned. Coincidentally, it was not long after that Greg, one of the founding members of Legendary Games, stepped up with a perfect alternative! In business you have to be flexible with plans and resources to make everything come together, and we are excited to bring Ashes of Empires to your table.
At the same time, we are still passionate about the project, but we just have to find the time to bring the right resources to bear to make it happen. It won’t be in 2019, but hopefully we can get it rolling in time to release in 2020! The dragons are waiting!!!
Yep. Robert and I each got buried in other things and didn't have time to push it forward. It's still something we want to do, once we get out from under our respective GIANT PILES (TM), but next year is the most likely target for it rather than this year.
I hope this is a late April Fool's joke. I mean we go from ancient stuff spanning two worlds and DRAGONS to Carrion Crown lite, hard not to see this as a massive downgrade. If Paizo comes out with their Dragon AP to start 2nd edition your new exciting idea will be as unoriginal an AP as the haunts and vampire AP is.
P.S.
Some of you might ask whatever happened to Conquest: Rage of Wyrms, the AP we announced the year before?2 years before.
Meh.
They got nailed by a} announcement of the editionpocalypse and b} needing to sit down and actually finish Legendary Planet. It's only because I'm a mythic supporter that I committed to anything before LP ships. They don't really need another product in the pipeline right now 'cuz that one's coming up on three years late.
As for the first PF2 AP being dragon-centric... that's about as relevant as saying "the most recent Numenara adventure is dragon-centric". Different system. Sure, there's overlap in the market, but... grunt.
Anguish, freaking 5e is what derailed Legendary Planet. I'm a backer as well and everything was fine with it until the 5e license came out in the middle of the kickstarter and then suddenly everything was doubled.
What are you complaining about anyway. I doubt you've played the available adventures and have been sitting and waiting to run To Kill a Star. I don't want a rushed product anyway. I want quality.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Speaking of Legendary Planet... we are at LONNNNNNNG last almost there! Check out the update I just posted here.
One of the great lessons learned from the Legendary Planet experience, which has been an incredible Murphy's Law cascade of SO MANY different things going wrong along the way, has been to focus on project setup and completion on the front end. LP was done much more prospectively: "Let's see if people will like this enough to want to do it." Which is fine... except that meant we hadn't actually DONE very much of it before we started.
Which meant we became extremely vulnerable process-wise to all of the bumps and skips and sideswipes and thirty-car-pileups along the way.
Which sucks for backers because they put their money down in 2015 and they still haven't gotten the final product yet. We've been very on the ball with almost all of our projects - heck, the Mythic Mania 2 project took four months from launch to sending final PDFs (just waiting for the printer to finish cycling before we send out books).
LP has taken almost four YEARS. We vowed "never again" would we dive face-first into that kind of minefield. Future projects would get done as much as possible on the front end, so once we launched publicly it would be all about doing the extras and layout.
Hence, while Robert and I would love to jump on the Dragon AP idea (and I can assure you that what Paizo is planning for their AP and what we are planning are VERY different things), we haven't had the time and headspace to get things organized and properly set up on the front side. ESPECIALLY when there are outstanding previous commitments that need to get done (Robert with some Aethera projects, Legendary Planet at the top of the list for me).
Greg's project came along in a situation where he is wrangling the writers and developing the text. I'm managing the art and cartography side while I do all my other stuff, and we're working on it in advance, so when it's ready to launch it's ready to bust out in a (dare I say it...) LEGENDARY fashion. Rather than just sit and do nothing AP wise for a year, we'll have another awesome option in Aegis of Empires, put together by a terrifically talented team, that is going to be super cool and fun. And once we get the plates clear, we can STILL ramp up to our Conquest: Rage of Wyrms plan. But we're gonna do it right.
LG is in a very different place in 2019 than we were in 2015, and we're aiming for 2020 with great vision (PUNS!).
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Anguish, freaking 5e is what derailed Legendary Planet. I'm a backer as well and everything was fine with it until the 5e license came out in the middle of the kickstarter and then suddenly everything was doubled.
What are you complaining about anyway. I doubt you've played the available adventures and have been sitting and waiting to run To Kill a Star. I don't want a rushed product anyway. I want quality.
Complaining? Sorry, didn't actually mean to sound that way.
My first paragraph was meant to support LG in delaying Rage. They got hosed and behind the clock. That time stood still for this project is 100% okay by me, regardless that I want it. Meant to be dismissive of the complaining, actually, while also mentioning I'm not in a hurry for another product just yet.
The second one even more so. I don't really care if LG does a virtually identical plot to what Paizo puts out for PF2, as long as what LG does is for PF1. Because... other game system is other game system.
So again, sorry if I came off as complaining. It wasn't intentional.