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Next base set? Back to the drawing board...


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game General Discussion

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Pathfinder Class Deck Subscriber

There's a lot of talk here about how to divide up the game and some interesting ideas for how this game might look when we next see it.
My concerns are more basic.

Here's what I like about the current big box configuration;

1. I've fitted wooden box inserts to allow me to re-organise my cards to fit all of the base-set, AP and 'seasons of' cards (perfect fit sleeved).
2. I also have room in each base set box to store extra dice, a card caddy and various character decks (in play).
3. It's a one-box solution, no extra storage needed, no messing, no fuss.
4. I still have room to put quite a few 'season of' sets into each box so there a good degree of future-proofing built in.

Here is what concerns me about the talk of a smaller form factor.

1. I will encounter problems trying to achieve any of the points I have mentioned above.
2. Anyone remember the original Doomtown CCG (or quite a few other CCGs for that matter). No suitable, sensible storage solution ever provided, extra expense and problems finding a decent solution.
3. So what about a medium size base set and then smaller box add-ons similar to some FFG games. Personally, I don't like multiple boxes and when you consider we may still be seeing new base set/AP releases each year then all those big boxes/small boxes start to get very annoying.
4. I am already buying storage solutions for all of the Class Decks, I don't want to be doing this for the game as well.

As for game format ideas;

1. I like the idea of incorporating shorter APs.
2. I like the idea of maybe having a base set tied to an important location and then multiple APs can evolve from that location (e.g. base set features a city as the starting point).
3. I like the idea of having large format pages for story/flavor.
4. I am interested to see if the current 4 base sets/APs/Seasons of/Class Decks will need to be modified much to fit in with the re-design/re-imagining of this game going forward.

Lone Shark Games

Beagle wrote:
2. I also have room in each base set box to store extra dice

I am moderately curious how many of you folks store dice in the base set box, and how many you store.


Pathfinder Class Deck Subscriber
Mike Selinker wrote:
I am moderately curious how many of you folks store dice in the base set box, and how many you store.

Each of my base sets has extra polyhedral dice sets (I don't include the D20 or the second D10)

RotR has 5 x Ivory dice sets
SaS has 5 x Black dice sets
WotR has 5 x Red dice sets
MM has 5 x Yellow dice sets

They are all Chessex Opaque sets (easy to read, good quality).


Pathfinder Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber

I store dices to the box but I have broken token inserts or similar in each box. But now I have so Many of those that I keep most of them separately.


Pathfinder Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber

At home, I have dice lying around on the gaming table, and each box contains one set of dice that I use exclusively for that box (the Q-Workshop dice of the underlying AP).

My RotR box is currently at work for our weekly game night, and it contains the blue dice from all the four base sets released so far.

None of the boxes uses the original tray; all cards are sleeved, two boxes use the Broken Token inserts, and then there is an insert from another brand and a custom one.

Grand Lodge

Mike Selinker wrote:
Beagle wrote:
2. I also have room in each base set box to store extra dice
I am moderately curious how many of you folks store dice in the base set box, and how many you store.

I try to store a single set of nice big (20+mm) easy-to-read dice in each box.


I have a motley collection of random dice in a bag, which I put in whatever set I am actively using. It's approximately 5 sets of dice.


Pathfinder Class Deck Subscriber

I have 5 sets of Chessex dice stored in box with a go7gaming insert.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

I also store at least three of each polyhedral dice in each of my base set boxes. A storage location for these dice would be 100 times more useful for me than storage space for the adventure boxes (which I throw away, personally).


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber
Mike Selinker wrote:
Beagle wrote:
2. I also have room in each base set box to store extra dice
I am moderately curious how many of you folks store dice in the base set box, and how many you store.

Actually I store the 6 minis we use in the box set... but not the dice.

This is because I store in another box the 80 or so dice we use + tokens to count the bonus on dice + the rules + the scenarios (Seasons's PDF and the like) + the characters.

Silver Crusade

I have 3 sets of dice in each set with the Broken Token insert.

I actually rarely use the dice I store in the set anymore, though. I got too reliant on it when I was always the one bringing my box places. Then I stopped being that person, and I would not have dice with me. So I started bringing separate dice everywhere too. And, basically, like any good gamer, I just have a lot of dice.


Pathfinder Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber
Mike Selinker wrote:
Beagle wrote:
2. I also have room in each base set box to store extra dice
I am moderately curious how many of you folks store dice in the base set box, and how many you store.

I don't, as I have a separate dice box which I can bring for whatever the relevant game is.

However, chalk me up for some better designed box-space, ideally - that would accommodate the whole AP in sleeved format.

Also, I seem to be in the minority that keeps their AD boxes - I find it immensely helpful when I need to "disassemble" the adventure path to start a new party - and I can keep the appropriate AD# cards in their corresponding boxes.

In connection to the above: with all this talk of "modular" design - one think I really like about the current box is that it's the ONLY box I need to carry when I move the game (with all the AD deck stored inside). I'd like if this can be preserved in whatever future permutations the game undergoes - having to carry around several boxes for a game night is really suboptimal.


Mike Selinker wrote:
I am moderately curious how many of you folks store dice in the base set box, and how many you store.

I use a dice bag, it holds 4 sets, I use for RPG's. It doesn't go in the box.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Longshot11 wrote:
Mike Selinker wrote:
Beagle wrote:
2. I also have room in each base set box to store extra dice
I am moderately curious how many of you folks store dice in the base set box, and how many you store.

Also, I seem to be in the minority that keeps their AD boxes - I find it immensely helpful when I need to "disassemble" the adventure path to start a new party - and I can keep the appropriate AD# cards in their corresponding boxes.

Since I sleeve all my cards, dsassembling back into the AD boxes would also involve unsleeving everything... which would be TERRIBLE. LOL


Pathfinder Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber
cartmanbeck wrote:
Longshot11 wrote:
Also, I seem to be in the minority that keeps their AD boxes - I find it immensely helpful when I need to "disassemble" the adventure path to start a new party - and I can keep the appropriate AD# cards in their corresponding boxes.
Since I sleeve all my cards, dsassembling back into the AD boxes would also involve unsleeving everything... which would be TERRIBLE. LOL

I know what you mean, but I've found that leaving the "alphabetical" cards (Henchmen,Villains, Scenarios, Locations)from future ADs in the box usually allows me to more or less fit the rest of the AD# cards in their box. I think it would be too optimistic to want the AD# boxes to also fit 110 sleeved cards :)


Longshot11 wrote:


However, chalk me up for some better designed box-space, ideally - that would accommodate the whole AP in sleeved format.

I consider the boxes well designed, certainly better then any of the other games I have. And I'm also one of the those who reuse the deck boxes.

Beagle wrote:


They are all Chessex Opaque sets (easy to read, good quality).

Chessex aren't exactly good quality dice, the only modern dice I'm familir with that are less accurate are Crystal Caste. http://www.1000d4.com/2013/02/14/how-true-are-your-d20s/

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Cards, Class Deck, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Mike Selinker wrote:
Beagle wrote:
2. I also have room in each base set box to store extra dice
I am moderately curious how many of you folks store dice in the base set box, and how many you store.

We keep two or three sets of dice in the box that we drag around to game stores and conventions just in case we get walk-up players (we also take spare character decks). We have the Broken Token inserts, and just put the dice in the half-height compartment.

Those are meant just for loaner dice, though. My wife and I each have dice bags containing far too many quite a lot of dice, so we don't need the ones in the box.


Pathfinder Class Deck Subscriber
Jim Landon wrote:


Chessex aren't exactly good quality dice, the only modern dice I'm familir with that are less accurate are Crystal Caste. http://www.1000d4.com/2013/02/14/how-true-are-your-d20s/

That's an interesting article but I won't be switching out my dice anytime soon as I've used Chessex dice for a long time, without any perceivable problems or issues. I don't RPG anymore but still have a lot of dice, like many of you. I've just re-purposed some of my existing dice to this game and added the odd new set here and there to make up 5 sets of each colour.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Mike Selinker wrote:
I am moderately curious how many of you folks store dice in the base set box, and how many you store.

I keep at least 5 sets of dice in the box. I also currently use a custom insert (Go7Gaming). I also store miniatures and Organized Play card sets in the appropriate base box.


Beagle wrote:


That's an interesting article but I won't be switching out my dice anytime soon as I've used Chessex dice for a long time, without any perceivable problems or issues.

I watch people catch on to their dice's issues all the time and disbelieve wht they're seeing, chocking it up to superstition. If you ever feel like checking if your dice are balanced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI3N4Qg-JZM


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Due to my background, I'm of the opinion that for true true randomness, you don't use dice and instead use random.org (entropy!). Of course, I'd get lambasted for that by dice purists.


Pathfinder Class Deck Subscriber
Jim Landon wrote:


I watch people catch on to their dice's issues all the time and disbelieve wht they're seeing, chocking it up to superstition. If you ever feel like checking if your dice are balanced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI3N4Qg-JZM

Thanks for that link, if I suspect any of the dice I have I may check them out. I can't say I've noticed any trends, historically or at present. I've always liked to have a larger dice pool anyway so I'm not always drawing the same 1, 2 or 3 dice.


I think I have one extra set (d4-d12) of dice in my S&S box, but we've got dice bags nearby all the time anyway.

Our Guild organizers already bring their things in a large bag containing multiple sets, a box of Class Decks, and various accessories. Moving to something similar for multiple smaller boxes or combining them into a larger storage solution (Paizo+UltraPRO already sell a themed one) wouldn't be that difficult for those who have to take their game places.


Pathfinder Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber
Mike Selinker wrote:
Beagle wrote:
2. I also have room in each base set box to store extra dice
I am moderately curious how many of you folks store dice in the base set box, and how many you store.

I use a set of 12 of each of the main dice, 6 d20s of one color for mythic dice, another pair of d20s for Temptation of Big Die, another d20 for ships, and a set of different color dice for Crawling Cyclops Traps and Blessing of the Favored Sting.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I store nothing in the original boxes. For my games I carry everything across town. Card in long white card boxes, dice in a bag, sometimes have to swap up or down a box size to stop things flopping around.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Cards, Class Deck, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

We like to keep things in the original boxes (and make sure the lid of the box is readily visible) so that casual traffic wandering past our table can immediately see what we are playing


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Class Deck Subscriber
Parody wrote:
Moving to something similar for multiple smaller boxes or combining them into a larger storage solution (Paizo+UltraPRO already sell a themed one) wouldn't be that difficult for those who have to take their game places.

These storage systems are difficult to get hold of in the UK and once shipping and customs are added they become prohibitively expensive, so this is not a realistic solution going forward for those of us somewhere else in the world. The changes Paizo want to make are supposed to reduce costs for us (hopefully), suggesting we all have to buy a separate storage solution for this game is a backward (and expensive) move since we do not currently have to do this.

We already have +6000 cards for this game and at least another +600 Class Deck cards will be added before the release of the next base set. This game is as big as most historical CCGs and it's getting bigger all the time. This is why suitable storage solutions for me are a big issue. The current big box does a good job of holding and differentiating my cards in an easy to understand manner i.e. by adventure path (themed if you like).


Beagle wrote:
These storage systems are difficult to get hold of in the UK and once shipping and customs are added they become prohibitively expensive, so this is not a realistic solution going forward for those of us somewhere else in the world.

While I used the PACG one as an example you don't have to choose it; there are plenty of alternatives available. For larger card games I tend to use the generic white trading card storage boxes. Poking around the Internet, various sizes of those seem to be readily available from UK game stores for less than £6.


Pathfinder Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber

I agree with Beagle, storage solutions should not boil down to third party companies. You know the broken token insert that everyone is so fond of?
For over two years, such an insert would cost as much as a new base set in germany. The price dropped in half once a german online vendor sold these things without taxes and international shipping, and even then you have to wait for 6 months if you're having bad luck. Same for the cards at drivethru, promos from free RPG day or organized play - all either unavailable or prohibitivly expensive.


Pathfinder Class Deck Subscriber
Parody wrote:
While I used the PACG one as an example you don't have to choose it; there are plenty of alternatives available. For larger card games I tend to use the generic white trading card storage boxes. Poking around the Internet, various sizes of those seem to be readily available from UK game stores for less than £6.

You are absolutely right, there are cheaper storage solutions available, but at the moment I don't have to consider or seek them out. Moving to a new format where I do have to consider this is not helpful to me IMHO since it means extra expense and any solution I might find may not be as useful or suitable as the current big box. This is what I was trying to say, I was not trying to poke at you or your suggestion.

I have quite a few old CCGs sprawling in white boxes and they look awful. There is an aspect of PACG that I had not considered being important until this conversation namely; the themed big boxes really do a great job and there is still room in them for further expansion of cards relevant to each box. I have only had to buy a wooden insert to make my big box a great storage solution. I had not appreciated this fully until getting involved in this thread.

I am currently using a couple of these (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B012S9SOQ2/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UT F8&psc=1&smid=A3EZBVT3NL080Z) for storing my class decks and they are a good fit for the class decks but they still add to the cost of the game and that is not good for the game. In a couple of years, I suppose this will be the biggest game of any type I have ever got involved in terms of, the number of components. I'm guessing the re-design of the game is to attract new blood and re-introduce the game to a new audience as well as implement new game ideas. I understand this but I will sorely miss the big box as a storage solution if/when it goes.


You guys caught me editing, so I'll move this down here. :)

If Paizo were to move to a separate base set and AP addons, they could also change the storage setup. The base sets might be much like a double-row storage container, large enough to store the base set and one AP but still half the size of the current large box that stores boxes. (Ideally they'd also include dividers to make it easy to see where the various card types and player decks ended up.) AP boxes could then be like single-length storage containers as they're not being used without a base set.

Similarly, I'd love it if Class Decks were top-loading single-width boxes rather than the side-loading double-width ones.

Beagle wrote:
There is an aspect of PACG that I had not considered being important until this conversation namely; the themed big boxes really do a great job and there is still room in them for further expansion of cards relevant to each box. I have only had to buy a wooden insert to make my big box a great storage solution.

This seems contradictory: if the box did a great job, we wouldn't be buying wooden inserts. At present, I have a Broken Token insert for my S&S set and use various types of oversize (== stores more than 100 double-sleeved cards) trading card game boxes for Class Decks. I don't have enough nice boxes for all the Class Decks I own, so the ones I'm not playing sit in their not-very-useful boxes. I'd like to not buy these things.

How likely is any of this, though? Pretty small, I think. Vic said as much earlier (paraphrasing: if it were all about throwing all the AP cards in a single box we'd have done it long ago) and these sorts of ideas have been tossed around a few times on these forums over the years. Ah, well.


Pathfinder Class Deck Subscriber
Parody wrote:
This seems contradictory: if the box did a great job, we wouldn't be buying wooden inserts.

You are correct, it is contradictory so I will explain. I also hate the AP packs and early on looked for an in-box solution so that I could get rid of the AP pack boxes. Basically, I bought the box insert to incorporate the AP cards into the box more efficiently. The main problem with the game thus far in terms of storage has been the AP packs, many of us have made negative comments about them over time. The AP packs ceased being a problem for me when I chose to buy the in box wooden storage solution, so in essence, this fixed the only thing I didn't like about the storage of the components for each themed base set.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Cards, Class Deck, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Parody wrote:
I don't have enough nice boxes for all the Class Decks I own, so the ones I'm not playing sit in their not-very-useful boxes.

My class decks (mostly unsleeved) live in UltraPro clear plastic boxes.

If it's a deck that has an active character (being played in OP) then the actual cards in the current deck are sleeved. Sleeved cards are a bit of a tight fit, but as they are on the top it's not too hard to get them out (a quick shake of the box usually does it).

All those boxes are stored in a Really Useful Box. I've got 15 class decks (plus three more that have never been opened) in an 8.1L box, and another two (the ones my wife and I are using in our current campaign) in a 5L box together with dice, extra sleeves, character playmats, etc.

Those two Really Useful Boxes, the Mummy's Mask Adventure Path box, and the large ACG playmat are what I need to take with me to run PACG at a game store where we might get other people interested in playing as well as our regulars; if I only had to cater to the regular players I wouldn't even need to bring the extra class decks.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber

I keep my dice in dice bags (which are not stored in the box). Occasionally I'll keep a few miniatures in the box...


Pathfinder Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber

I Also use clear deckboxes for class decks. And I put the Front off the class deck to the top of the deckbox so it easy to see what class deck is in each box. Works like a charm!

Some use of scisors and two sided tape makes wonders.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Axoq wrote:
That sounds like my second version: Core Deck plus a shorter, self-contained game, and that can be expanded by other products. Is there a similar problem with that configuration?

Not a problem at all; if you think about it, it's not all that different from what we have now.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Cards, Class Deck, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Hannibal_pjv wrote:

I Also use clear deckboxes for class decks. And I put the Front off the class deck to the top of the deckbox so it easy to see what class deck is in each box. Works like a charm!

Some use of scissors and two sided tape makes wonders.

For decks I'm not using I make sure the token card for the Iconic character (or my favourite character, for decks that don't contain an iconic character) is on the top of the pile.

For decks that are in use I put a 2.5" x 3" index card on the top of that, with the character name (and character number, if this is an OP character) on the top line, and a brief play history on the rest of the card.

For boxes that are stored vertically (such as the extra class decks I take to game stores and conventions) I cut one of those index cards in half, write the deck identifier ("Barbarian", "Goblins Burn!", ...) on the blank side, and slip that into the box so it can easily be read in situ.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mike Selinker wrote:
Beagle wrote:
2. I also have room in each base set box to store extra dice
I am moderately curious how many of you folks store dice in the base set box, and how many you store.

I have 3 of the base sets (no Mummy's mask yet). I store all the dice from all three in a little dicebox that fits in the base game. I use wooden slat organizers to hold every card from set (All adventure and the set class decks as well as some class deck line cards) in the base set box.


Mike Selinker wrote:
Beagle wrote:
2. I also have room in each base set box to store extra dice
I am moderately curious how many of you folks store dice in the base set box, and how many you store.

I have a bag of all my dice. Can't stand not having enough of the dice you want, and like to have dice in reach of everyone, so no matter how many I have there's never enough dice.

I like to keep the dice bag in whichever box I'm actively playing. Except at the moment I'm playing S&S at work and WotR at home and constantly moving the dice bag between the two locations.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Mike Selinker wrote:
Beagle wrote:
2. I also have room in each base set box to store extra dice
I am moderately curious how many of you folks store dice in the base set box, and how many you store.

I store the original dice that came with the base set in the box. Mostly for "completionist" reasons. I keep a whole bunch of other dice (including a premium plunder die) in a bag that I grab no matter which base set or class deck I'm using.


My dice are in a little bag in the box. I just tote the bag (pouch) around in the car so I have it for any of the base games myself or my friends play. I plan on buying an alternate storage for the games, possibly the broken token products. Curious how those have worked for people.


Pathfinder Card Game, Class Deck Subscriber

I keep three sets of dice in each game box (all dark blue); and I keep four additional bags of four sets each, all the same color, one for each player (white, black, purple, green). Each of these sets is kept in a dice bag of the same color as the dice, making identification easy. My wife uses frosted pink dice (ugh!) and I use light blue dice for my good characters and black dice for my evil characters (currently only Seltyiel, but those evil iconics will get their due). The pink and light blue dice, our usual dice, are kept in red dice bags with the color written on the outside. The black/red dice are kept in a separate black bag. This way we don't have to pass dice around the table, speeding things up a bit (because my wife suffers from analysis paralysis, so every little trick helps when it comes to speeding up the game ;) ). We also keep a bag of bane dice, one of my wife's innovations, that we use to indicate which banes and how many of each are at each location (not only is she a victim of analysis paralysis, she is also risk averse ;) ). These are kept in a large Boba Fett bag - lots of red, orange, and yellow dice allowing us to mark for up to eight locations worth of banes.

daddlebutt wrote:
I plan on buying an alternate storage for the games, possibly the broken token products. Curious how those have worked for people.

I can't recommend the organizers highly enough. In my opinion, they are absolutely essential if you sleeve your cards and keep them in the original base set box.

Broken Token Game Organizer discussion
Favorite accessories discussion

Earlier versions of the Broken Token's organizer had problems with some of the dividers slipping out, but the new version has solved that problem (albeit, with a fixed divider to hold things together properly, but I'm over that). I've also found that simply using the dividers for the new organizer in the old organizers has also prevented the problem.

The Broken Token's PACG Organizer has enough room in the "dice compartment" for three full sets of polyhedral dice, or four sets if you remove the extra d10s and d20s.


That's very good to hear. I sleeved the entire set of RotR but now me and my groups only sleeve what we handle from whats in our decks and hand. Too much sleeving and money on cards that still stay in great shape when only dealt into locations.

This weekend I may order a set or two of the organizers. Mummy's mask and WotR are the sets we play the most right now so I may start with those. Thanks for the response Brother Tyler.

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