Multi-armed character


Advice


Hello!
I was looking into race creation, and noticed you can build a character with up to 4 arms. That's better than the alchemist discovery, because you can actually use it to gain multiple attacks from my understanding.

So I began wondering, which classes and builds would benefit the most by having multiple arms?


Lady Platypus wrote:

Hello!

I was looking into race creation, and noticed you can build a character with up to 4 arms. That's better than the alchemist discovery, because you can actually use it to gain multiple attacks from my understanding.

So I began wondering, which classes and builds would benefit the most by having multiple arms?

All of them do. literally.

Casters have hands for rods, wands, staves, ect and can cast.
martials have an easier time reloading, swapping weapons, carrying shield and big weapon, having a two handed ranged and melee to swap attack types at will ect. Or just attacking with 4 weapons/natural attacks at once.


Are you aware of the Kasatha, the four-armed playable race in Bestiary 4?

Also, I hope you're aware of the intent of the race creation subsystem. It's not meant to be a tool to build super-powerful races for your own PC (notice how extremely easy the system is to abuse), but rather as a way of getting a modicum of balance when populating a world with your own strange creations.

As for your question, I think graystone got the gist of it. I'll add that martial characters will benefit from 1st level, like carrying a shield and one-handed weapon in addition to the main, two-handed reach weapon. Full casters won't have need of all those arms until they've amassed at least some wealth and levels.

I'm also not sure how four arms mesh with Swashbucklers and others in need for a free hand. I believe the Kasatha raised such questions, but I don't know how (or if) they were properly answered.


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Another, under-appreciated, benefit of having four arms is never being surprised. Because fore-warned is four armed.

On a similar theme, I have tried to convince various GMs that if I am playing a quadruped I should have two extra feats. This is perfectly logical but my protestations seem to be falling on deaf ears.


I was looking for something a bit more specific. Of course everyone benefits by being able to carry more items, but are there some "hidden" bonuses?

For example, what happens if you carry two tower shields? I know the AC bonus doesn't stack, but would you be able to gain cover on two sides at once?

What happens if you grapple with all four arms, instead of just two? Do you get some bonus to your grapple check?

Do you get any bonus to skill, such as climb? It should be easier to climb (or at least harder to lose grip) when you have 3 or 4 arms, shouldn't it?

Would you be able to use oversized 2H weapons? Since an oversized weapons goes from light to 1H, and from 1H to 2H, would a 2H go to 3/4H?

And so on...

I wasn't aware of the Kasatha, thanks for the suggestion.

I'm not trying to build an OP character for a campaign. I was mostly curious about it's potential.

As far as I know Forewarned doesn't prevent you from being surprised. You can always act in surprise rounds, but those who act before you still hit on flat-footed.

Not sure what the 2 bonus feats have to do with my question, but I wouldn't give it either. Being a quadruped gives you bonuses to speed and carry capabilities already, so why giving you two entire feats?


My last post wasn't made with monotremes in mind. I was making two preposterous puns. Fore-warned/ four armed and two extra feats/ two extra feet.


My old group and I have played Kasathas and love them. Bear in mind though some GMs still treat the extra arms incapable of making an extra attack. My group did making them premiere damage dealers. Three short swords, a shield and Multiweapon fighting. Be sure to check with your GM about this. I say the Kasatha with their racial archtype says they can use all 4 arms equally well.


Most of what you are looking for does not work. There is no such thing as a four handed weapon and the rules for oversized weapons are clear that if it pushed past a two handed weapon it is not useable. This makes sense because even with the extra hands on the hilt you do not have the leverage to properly wield the weapon.

Having extra limbs do not give you extra attacks. Humanoids have four limbs already two arms and two legs. Even with improved unarmed strike you still only get a single extra attack when using the two weapon fighting rules. Even monks who are specifically called out as using arms, legs, heads, elbows and other body parts do not get more attacks.

A character with four arms would be able to grapple someone and still have arms free. With the right feats you may be able to grapple a person twice, or grapple two different targets. If you had two grapples on a single target they would have to break both to escape. You will need the feats to be able to grapple multiple times.

Getting bonuses to other skills is going to be up to the GM . Having multiple limbs does not give you more actions so anything requiring specific actions like move action, or a full round action will not be affected.

Also keep in mind that any limbs past the first are all considered off hand. When you have two limbs you have a primary hand and an off hand. With four limbs you have a primary hand and four off hands. Having more limbs means you also have to spilt your attention further. While you have four limbs you still only have one brain and two eyes. Extra limbs will help you hold more items or have a hand free to while doing something that normally takes up all your limbs, but will not allow you more actions.

Dark Archive

3.X had rules for Multi-Weapon Fighting in some supplement, essentially the same as two weapon fighting but for more than two weapons. So using those in 3.X you could have a four armed race and get 3 extra attacks PER Iterative attack. It was pretty over powered, and it made your combat turns ungodly long and boring for everyone else.

PF has the same feat in the Bestiary, but it's not legal for PCs in Society games (no bestiary feats are) and I wouldn't be surprised if a DM in a home game said no. Also, there isn't any Improved or Greater Multiweapon fighting, so you'd only get the extra attacks on your FIRST iterative attack, not on the others.

That being said, even if you are limited to using Two Hands for each attack, having four hands is still powerful because you can do the following.

* Use your extra arms to retrieve gear like potions or scrolls.
* Hold and use wands (less likely to have to spend a move action to stow and draw to change your selections)
* Hold four weapons, with different enchants, because you can still attack with any of them, just limited by your number of attacks.
i.e. your holding a Holy sword, a Vorpal sword, a Flaming Burst Sword, and a Disrupting Mace. You have BAB 16/11/6/1. You COULD use each weapon to make ONE of those attacks, or use which ever one is the best for any given enemy.
* Theoretically you could hold a Bow and arrow with two hands or a Crossbow with two hands, and melee weapons with your other two hands, and once you have iterative attacks, you could mix melee and ranged.
* Theoretically, you could hold two heavy crossbows and use rapid shot with heavy crossbows without needing two other feats. Though it would take a while to reload them...
* Grapple with two arms, but you still have two free hands to make a sleight of hand check to pick their pockets while grappling? (This one may not be legal)

And so on.

Incidentally, when Star Finder comes out in August, Kasatha will be a core race for that game, which means we will get considerably more detail on what a character with 4 arms Should be Allowed to do.


Don't forget that you can hold a 2handed weapon in two hands, and with your other two hands, hold another 2handed weapon, to two weapon fight with them.

"But you can't use 2handed weapons in two weapon fighting!"

Because it normally takes both of your only two hands to wield one. But you have four hands now. Also you could wield sawtooth sabers for a size larger than yourself and they would count as one handed weapons for the purpose of two weapon fighting.


Lady Platypus wrote:
For example, what happens if you carry two tower shields? I know the AC bonus doesn't stack, but would you be able to gain cover on two sides at once?

the benefit of 2 vs 1 is a free extra Armor Check Penalty -10 and a free –2 penalty on attack rolls. So it you really want -20 ACP and -4 attack rolls that go for it.

Lady Platypus wrote:

What happens if you grapple with all four arms, instead of just two? Do you get some bonus to your grapple check?

Do you get any bonus to skill, such as climb? It should be easier to climb (or at least harder to lose grip) when you have 3 or 4 arms, shouldn't it?

In a round about way. Climbing requires 2 hands, so 2 extra means you can attack or cast spells while you do it. Much the same you take a penalty to grapple not using two hands so a 4 armed character could have extra weapons and such while getting full grapple.

Lady Platypus wrote:
Would you be able to use oversized 2H weapons?

hahaha No, those are based on size. Adding extra arms doesn't change handedness.

Joynt Jezebel wrote:
"fore-warned is four armed" "quadruped I should have two extra feats."

Lady Platypus, you aren't very good with word play are you. Those comments where a play on word: 4 armed sounds like forearmed and having 2 extra feet, what a quadruped does, sounds like 2 extra feat.


Mysterious I disagree about the extra limb not providing extra attacks so does Pazio. Read the Bestiaries. The Marilith being the perfect example. Six arms six attacks.
My old group after multiweapon fighting added to the tree with greater and improved. Why not. It Makes perfect sense. This was a house rules and we loved it. Also while the Kasatha was always a trip in the various groups he never overshadowed another party member. He never dominated combat even though he was a fantastic damage dealer.


Derek Dalton wrote:

Mysterious I disagree about the extra limb not providing extra attacks so does Pazio. Read the Bestiaries. The Marilith being the perfect example. Six arms six attacks.

My old group after multiweapon fighting added to the tree with greater and improved. Why not. It Makes perfect sense. This was a house rules and we loved it. Also while the Kasatha was always a trip in the various groups he never overshadowed another party member. He never dominated combat even though he was a fantastic damage dealer.

It's heavily debated and Paizo has never actually put out a ruling, most people who rule against it assume the bestiaries are wrong/incorrect. The best bet is to ask your GM going forward and hope that the Kasatha being in starfinder as a base race gets the question answered faster than the multiple FAQ threads have.


Talonhawke wrote:
Derek Dalton wrote:

Mysterious I disagree about the extra limb not providing extra attacks so does Pazio. Read the Bestiaries. The Marilith being the perfect example. Six arms six attacks.

My old group after multiweapon fighting added to the tree with greater and improved. Why not. It Makes perfect sense. This was a house rules and we loved it. Also while the Kasatha was always a trip in the various groups he never overshadowed another party member. He never dominated combat even though he was a fantastic damage dealer.
It's heavily debated and Paizo has never actually put out a ruling, most people who rule against it assume the bestiaries are wrong/incorrect. The best bet is to ask your GM going forward and hope that the Kasatha being in starfinder as a base race gets the question answered faster than the multiple FAQ threads have.

Multiweapon Fighting's existence is pretty much all you need to prove that extra arms allow for more attacks. It notes off handS, instead of off hand, and if it gave no benefit to use multiple offhands there would be no reason to have it instead of two weapon fighting. Those against tend to use the unwritten 'hand' FAQ rules to use their dislike of it to make it not work.

I agree that I HOPE that starfinder will put this 'question' to bed once and for all.

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