What do you expect from Mythic characters?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


(I have no idea if this should be advice of general discussion so sorry if I fugged that up)

Okay so I make a lot of mythic characters (like a lot a lot), and I've noticed the gulf in potential damage when you reach mythic is absolutely bonkers, seriously.

Take any full BAB character pump strength, take mythic PA and mythic greater vital strike, furious focus and amazing initiative, use foe biter and you're probably hitting over 1K before you actually apply class features. That is of course insane overkill and I hope people don't feel like if you make a martial mythic you have to go for one of these bonkers borkened builds.

So yeah that's what I'm curious to talk about, we all have a rough idea about what our DCs should be reaching, we have a rough idea about our to hit and damage and we have a handy AC calculation of 15/20/25+ level to give us something to aim for.

So what do you expect to see from a mythic build so yeah some questions on your expectations.

1) How much AC do you expect in a mythic PC or do you just sort of give up on AC?
2) What do you expect as a standard spell or ability DC, what about a signifture moves DC?
3) How much damage do you expect to see?
4) what else are you expecting to see from a mythic PC, saves, other defences, do you have an acceptable standard?


I can tell you what my current mythic PCs at lvl 20 MT10 have: AC: after buffs 45+ (that's a bard, a bloodrager and a cleric); highest stat: 40, 44 (increases to 52 with rage), 54, 42); highest DC of the wizard (the only one who took spell focus etc. - incl a couple 3rd party things): a couple of schools 43+spell lvl, rest of schools 32+spell lvl; att mod of bloodrager is +40-50 I think and if he crits he can do 3-400 dmg in 1 att


So your AC kinda looks like, good enough that iterative attacks are having a good chance to miss but primaries are probably going to land? To be honest most of my martial send up around the 50-55 AC mark, although one does end up at 63, but he was built to take AoEs against people when they miss him.

Stats are always a conundrum with mythic for me because do you split up that juicy +10 xD

Your DCs are pretty nice though what does the third party stuff do for em?

lol I was so confused about how an attack could do 3 damage or 400 xD I'm slow, are you using a big crit multiplier or just a lot of base damage?


it's 3rd party spell perfection which multiplies the bonuses from other things by 3 rather than 2 I think - it's a x5 crit multiplier against demons from the WotR champion campaign trait (can't remember it's name) + the extra ability you get in book 2-3 based on it where you add +1 multiplier vs demons for 1 minute
only 1 of the players really knows how to powergame well and I also told them not to powergame too much as it's mythic
if the enemy does a full attack more often than not the melee PC is down in 1 rnd or close to it, same goes for the PCs full attack on enemies if they crit 1+ times quite often as long as it's not a solo creature - and this is using the statblock for WotR so a lot of the fights are in the standard APL -1 to +3 range (rather than what the AP does, where pretty much none of the fights are even APL-1)


I expect players to exercise good judgment and not try to break the game by going drastically further than the math expects. It only makes it harder to run the game.

As for numbers, generally try to avoid exceeding blue.

(You honestly don't need to pump the numbers up much higher. There's a point where enemies really only fail on a 1, y'know? Investing past that doesn't actually improve your odds of success...)

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Based on my Wrath campaign, by L20/M10 I see martials with damage output in the 500-700 per round range, defensive PCs with ACs in the 70s, and casters who can spontaneously cast any spell with caster levels in the low 30s. This is all from a group that really doesn't min/max much but builds for theme.


that doesn't account for mythic unless it's been updated since I last saw it - vs mythic adversaries you need to exceed blue


That table is conservative at the best of times, especially for mythic.

Ac in the 70s is quite remarkable


Remarkable, but probably unnecessary. XD Ain't often you see things with attack bonuses of +50 or more... heck, even the Mythic Tarrasque is only +44, and that thing's CR 30.


I tend to agree 70 is sort of pointless the highest to hit I know are nocticula and Pazuzu whose highest iterative is 54(although I don't have book 6)


Mythic characters should be doing much more in terms of damage or just about anything else compared to regular characters imo. Or to put it another way what gets written down as a legend. The Cleric who fed his party. Or the one that fed a entire army.

My advice take it as it is. As Mythic characters are more powerful by default. Or restart another campaign at lower levels.


Who are you addressing? Because I'm not sure how your post addresses the thread.


To the Op let me clarify.

Expect Mythic characters to do a lot more than the average character. What you see in the core yet at a higher level of power. More AC, damage, etc. There is a whole section on Mythic spells in the Mythic Adventures.

To give you a idea here is the spell Terraform

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-magic/mythic-spells/terraform/

This is the type pf things to expect a Mythic character to do. A high level character can make a desert into a paradise for two weeks. If a DM is unused to running Mythic rules can break a campaign.


Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
I tend to agree 70 is sort of pointless the highest to hit I know are nocticula and Pazuzu whose highest iterative is 54(although I don't have book 6)

list of enemies that can beat 70 AC if they roll high or use a surge:
by the statblock baphomet also has +54/49/44/39 and if you run a fight where the enemies have got a chance to buff beforehand it can be brutal - a ranger from the statblock at CR 22 with favoured enemy, heroism, haste, bane, divine favour, mythic weapon focus and point blank shot goes from +38 to +56, mistress anemora gets to +52 with buffs (and she's more of a caster than focussed on melee), diurgez broodlord gets to +52 if they're in a swarm (pretty likely as he produces them) with haste; Areelu gets to +60 with smite, haste and her devastator nearby; deskari has +51 no buffs; shaorhaz gets +50 with buffs (54 if flanking); his buddy son of shax gets to +50 with buffs; Areelu's Devastator gets to +50 with buffs

Any of these in book 6 get an extra +2 if they're encountered at day 3+ on the apocalypse timer
That's 7 enemies in 1 book of an AP that can get over 70 AC or match it (don't forget these all have mythic surges to get higher too) (These are all the versions in the statblock document that's highly recommended if you don't want all the supposedly powerful enemies to be a walkover - as example areelu as presented in the book has +41 to hit against 1 enemy and 32 vs the rest, which would stuggle to hit the 45+AC of current PCs in the party)


You've just served to make me want Book 6 more xD

With buffing magic things get a bit wonky which is why I didn't take them into account, for example Pazuzu could technically wish his way to Greater Heroism but the idea of him doing that is a bit weird to me and PCs can do the same, with spells like Shield and and Ironskin which give most things (aside from shield users) a +6 to their AC. I also find a lot of creatures don't seem to start with accuracy booster or AC boosters on their spell list, so to get them you have weird stuff like people limited wishing themselves into heroism xD

and then theres things like Greater Dispel Magic and Mages Disjunction.

So I prefer not to worry about potential buffing beyond like 1hour per level or 10 minute per level buffs.

How did your PCs hit the 70s anywho?

Mistress Anemora sounds kewl.

@Max walking along Fury Road

Like I said I've made a lot of Mythic PCs I know what they can do, that isn't the topic of this thread, this thread is concerned with a rough idea of the numbers PCs should be hitting for AC, To hit, Damage, Dcs and maybe saves.

EDIT: Spelling


the PCs didn't hit 70s, the one who are really accurate just hit almost every time - they had to take a 2nd go at mistress anemora + sister perversion - enemies with lots of buffs often have a lot of opportunity to buff up, either they could be scrying on the PCs, hear them coming, have status cast on an ally of theirs, I generally do min/lvl buffs if they could know the PCs are coming and buff at the start of combat if they've got enough time (MA+SP had loads of time to buff the 1st time around then they made the bloodrager fall down an infinite hole while dead and the paladin fall as he got hit with a can't attack spell when his code says he must defend allies and attack enemies)
dispel magic can help the PCs remove buffs - no-one has yet done disjunction thankfully - i have to have popups asking if the buff is still active for this very event in VTT - makes prepping take ages! and the PCs sometimes get their buffs taken down too - mostly if there's lots of enemies and not much else for them to do - going by statblock suggestions I once had the players discussing for over an hr what buffs to do for the big woundwyrm then they entered and got a lot of their stuff dispelled (along with cohort deaths and the encounter taking ages, leading to cohorts being banned from combat)
Back to more on topic - saves the PCs generally have it quite easy as they have a bard who gives +6 to all saves all combat (3rd party thing that makes bonus to all saves + standard bearer for 2), and the enemies quite often pass their saves too (that is until the wizard with 52DC lvl 9 spells got swapped for paladin), mostly because neither the bard or cleric focussed on DCs at all (no spell focus feats anywhere, though main casting stats are high)


I'm sorry I think my phraseology confused you. By hit 70s I meant how did they get their AC to hit 70s, as in get it so high. My bad.

Disjuntion is the I wanna win right now please so I'mma make the DM tear up the monsters stat block spell. And its even worse with PCs xD I'm pretty good at fast mental math on little buffs and things and dealing with disjunction still stresses me xD I can't imagine how annoying it would be waiting for the less buff and math savy players to re-work their sheets xD

saves are a bit weird in mythic with all the re-roles and surge buffs that can potentially happen.


The only other issue I have heard with Mythic characters is that Mythic Creatures/npcs as written don't scale properly with the damage output of player characters. So may require reworking by the DM.


Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

I'm sorry I think my phraseology confused you. By hit 70s I meant how did they get their AC to hit 70s, as in get it so high. My bad.

Disjuntion is the I wanna win right now please so I'mma make the DM tear up the monsters stat block spell. And its even worse with PCs xD I'm pretty good at fast mental math on little buffs and things and dealing with disjunction still stresses me xD I can't imagine how annoying it would be waiting for the less buff and math savy players to re-work their sheets xD

saves are a bit weird in mythic with all the re-roles and surge buffs that can potentially happen.

nope - I got it, you didn't get my reply - I never said my PCs got 70s in AC - it was ryric's PCs who got it to 70

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