Smartest character possible?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Alright, so, we're going to start with the assumption that either through point buy or roll, the character starts out with an 18 in their int stat.

The character can either be a tiefling(standard or daemon-spawn) or a peri-blooded aasimar. We'll be using Blood of Angels/Fiends for this exercise. Using the variant racial ability tables featured in those books and assuming either a lucky roll(40 for BoA, 46 for BoF) or a generous DM that would allow one to pick the boon they want from the table, the character gains an additional +2 racial bonus to their int score, bringing the total bonus up to +4 and their starting int to 22.

The character class we will be going with is Alchemist. We are now going to assume the long game by giving this character 20 levels and 10 mythic tiers. This gives us an extra +5 int from leveling, +10 from mythic advancement, +2 from the Enhanced Ability universal path ability. In addition, the character will take the Cognatogen discovery along with it's greater and grand variants, as well as the Awakened Intellect grand discovery.

At some point the character will have also taken the Longevity universal path ability and taken enough time off to reach old age or venerable. While on the path to venerable status, the character will begin work jumping through the hoops of the Transformation Ritual as laid out in Book of the Damned, vol. 2: Lords of Chaos, for transforming into a demon, finishing off at the third ritual to acquire the Half Fiend template, timing it so that they do so after having gotten to at least old age to secure the +2 bonus from aging before getting the +4 bonus from the template.

So we have a character who starts out at int 22, increases to 27 from pure leveling, 37 from pure mythic advancement, 39 with the capstone class ability, 41 with a mythic path ability, 46 from purchasing and reading a Tome of Clear Thought, 50 from becoming a half-demon, and 52-53 from aging while doing all of this.

They would then be able to temporarily increase their intelligence further by imbibing their cognatogen and putting on a headband for a total of 66-67, for a total modifier bonus of +28.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Don't forget to cut a deal with a succubus, gaining her profane gift so that you can apply a +2 profane bonus to Intelligence also.


Nocticula (+6) is better. I think there's a Sacred bonus you can get from an Empyreal lord too


If your GM is super generous, you could first pick the 100 result from the Replace SLA table, and take +2 INT again for a total starting INT of 24. But once you're a demon, cut a deal with a devil for the Devilbound template, with an additional +2 to your intelligence. Then, top it all off with, if you can manage it, becoming a Vetala or Psychic vampire, for a final +4. If you can't manage that, just find a regular vampire that was an outsider in life, or create a phylactery and become a Lich for +2 instead.


Challenge round:

Assuming you can convince your GM (which, if they're allowing you to take Aasimar/Tiefling and pick your personal preference for the granted SLA replacement, isn't too far of a stretch) to let you create your own custom 10-RP race, you can bump your level 1 INT even higher, by:

Greater Paragon statistics- 2 RP (+4 INT, -2 STR, -2 CHA)
Advanced Intelligence (twice)- 9 RP (+4 INT)
Slow speed- -1 RP

This would increase your level 1 INT to 26, +10 (mythic), +5 (level up), +2 (enhanced ability), +2 (Alchemist capstone), +3 (aging), +4 (half-fiend), +5 (inherent), +2 (profane maybe more, but I don't know Nocticula's stats), +6 (headband), +8 (grand cognatogen), +2 (devilbound), +4/+2 (become undead), for a grand total of 79/77, and a modifier of +33/+34.


Δaedalus wrote:

Challenge round:

Assuming you can convince your GM (which, if they're allowing you to take Aasimar/Tiefling and pick your personal preference for the granted SLA replacement, isn't too far of a stretch) to let you create your own custom 10-RP race, you can bump your level 1 INT even higher, by:

Greater Paragon statistics- 2 RP (+4 INT, -2 STR, -2 CHA)
Advanced Intelligence (twice)- 9 RP (+4 INT)
Slow speed- -1 RP

Can't take Advanced Intelligence, because it's an advanced trait, and by having 10 RP your race's power level is just standard. If it were a 11 RP race, it could take advanced traits.

Of course, if you had the GM's permission to build a race in the first place, they might let you ignore that restriction.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A tailored suit.

...

Oh, this is about Intelligence.

You guys seem to have it covered.


getting nocticula's bonus is a risky business, she could almost certainly kill you quite easily or just dominate you forever and once she gives you her profane bonus she can take it away and kill you in the process at any range

Sovereign Court

dharkus wrote:
getting nocticula's bonus is a risky business, she could almost certainly kill you quite easily or just dominate you forever and once she gives you her profane bonus she can take it away and kill you in the process at any range

We're maximizing intelligence here, not wisdom. Besides, the challenge wasn't to build the smartest possible free-willed character. ^^


You can also take a Intelligence-damaging poison, and then use the Invigoration Poison extract for a +4 Alchemical bonus.

Grand Lodge

The important question is, can you petrify Nocticula, and keep her petrified?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Where exactly are you going with this? Is there a point to the exercise beyond "let's see how far we can take it?"


Mangenorn wrote:
The important question is, can you petrify Nocticula, and keep her petrified?

nope - immune to it, also separately constant freedom of movement


There's no completely safe way to get those profane bonuses unless you immediately destroy to Nocticula before they can instant wreck you by removing the bonus.

Even a generous GM is not going to let you take advantage of a called outsider like this. I wouldn't count these bonuses towards a smartest character possible.


The super exploitative way is to just make a simulacrum of her as her profane ascension doesn't scale with her hit dice or whatnot. Good luck finding a GM to allow it in an actual game though.


Speaking of which, is Nocticula in Bestiary 6?

Because, if she is, and around CR 25-30, a MR 10, level 20, half-fiend, devilbound vampire should be about an even match for her. Especially if you went an alternate route with Crossblooded Sage/Dragon or Ley Line Witch for spontaneous 9-level Int-based casting and went Dragon Disciple for the +2 INT that prestige class grants, then dipping 1 level of alchemist so you could drink the cognatogen you alchemist cohort made, you could get the same intelligence with way more powerful spells.

Or, just throw a ton of bombs, all of which add your INT to damage.....

How much health does Nocticula have?

Grand Lodge

Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
Even a generous GM is not going to let you take advantage of a called outsider like this. I wouldn't count these bonuses towards a smartest character possible.

Using a Succubus this way is explicitly legal in Pathfinder.


Mangenorn wrote:
Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
Even a generous GM is not going to let you take advantage of a called outsider like this. I wouldn't count these bonuses towards a smartest character possible.
Using a Succubus this way is explicitly legal in Pathfinder.

It is a Chaotic and Evil act, though.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Δaedalus wrote:
Mangenorn wrote:
Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
Even a generous GM is not going to let you take advantage of a called outsider like this. I wouldn't count these bonuses towards a smartest character possible.
Using a Succubus this way is explicitly legal in Pathfinder.
It is a Chaotic and Evil act, though.

Chaos? Evil? At this level of intelligence, we are FAR BEYOND such trivial concepts as "ethics" and "morals."

Dark Archive

Headband of intelligence +6


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Δaedalus wrote:
Speaking of which, is Nocticula in Bestiary 6?

I don't know about Bestiary 6, but she's given full stats in Pathfinder #76: The Midnight Isles, and reprinted on the d20PFSRD.


It's legal if you can trust them. It can remove the bonus and do 2d6 charisma damage as a free action.

I don't see how this is a viable path to a bonus unless you are playing an explicitly evil character and your GM is not enforcing anything at all.

Not saying it's illegal, it's just logistically impossible for a temporary award and 100 percent risk only for evil casters.


Create Mr. Pitt wrote:

It's legal if you can trust them. It can remove the bonus and do 2d6 charisma damage as a free action.

I don't see how this is a viable path to a bonus unless you are playing an explicitly evil character and your GM is not enforcing anything at all.

Not saying it's illegal, it's just logistically impossible for a temporary award and 100 percent risk only for evil casters.

Simulacrum or Stone to Flesh (On a Succubus). The Former won't ever revoke as it's under your absolute control and the latter makes it incapable of revoking the boon


Ah, 774 HP? No problem.

I kind of want to build this character now, just to see its stats.

So, a bomb-focused alchemist at level 20/MR 10, with a +36 INT modifier, full attaching with their bombs, can deal... how much, exactly?


Ravingdork wrote:
Where exactly are you going with this? Is there a point to the exercise beyond "let's see how far we can take it?"

No, none whatsoever.

Every now and then I just get an idea in my head and I need to put it down on paper, so to speak. And I posted it here to double check if there was anything I missed, which there were a couple templates that one could reasonably get that I did overlook.

Honestly I'd have no interest in playing such a character or even NPCing one as a DM. I don't like playing characters with hyper inflated mental scores because while I like to think of myself as a reasonably intelligent person I don't think it's really possible to convincingly roleplay someone with super-human intelligence/wisdom/charisma.


Δaedalus wrote:

Ah, 774 HP? No problem.

I kind of want to build this character now, just to see its stats.

So, a bomb-focused alchemist at level 20/MR 10, with a +36 INT modifier, full attaching with their bombs, can deal... how much, exactly?

If you use the Statblock stats for that (you should otherwise she's too weak) she gets an extra 300hp which when you deal dmg to it, the dmg is also done to you - so gotta account for having over 300hp (incl +double con)

Grand Lodge

Create Mr. Pitt wrote:

It's legal if you can trust them. It can remove the bonus and do 2d6 charisma damage as a free action.

I don't see how this is a viable path to a bonus unless you are playing an explicitly evil character and your GM is not enforcing anything at all.

Not saying it's illegal, it's just logistically impossible for a temporary award and 100 percent risk only for evil casters.

It's covered in a guide for people who want to summon and bind outsiders. I'm not going to do the digging right now, but a petrified succubus counts as unconscious, which means she grants you the boon and can't rescind it. If you just put her in a box and leave her in a basement somewhere, you should be fine with a permanent +2 to whatever stat you want.


Mangenorn wrote:
Create Mr. Pitt wrote:

It's legal if you can trust them. It can remove the bonus and do 2d6 charisma damage as a free action.

I don't see how this is a viable path to a bonus unless you are playing an explicitly evil character and your GM is not enforcing anything at all.

Not saying it's illegal, it's just logistically impossible for a temporary award and 100 percent risk only for evil casters.

It's covered in a guide for people who want to summon and bind outsiders. I'm not going to do the digging right now, but a petrified succubus counts as unconscious, which means she grants you the boon and can't rescind it. If you just put her in a box and leave her in a basement somewhere, you should be fine with a permanent +2 to whatever stat you want.

The trick is detailed in DMDM's Guide to Planar Binding. It does work by the rules, but it's also risky, as someone who knows the succubus could come looking for her, discover her, and break the enchantment. Plus, you know, come with a few buddies and hunt you down for revenge.

Silver Crusade

Chemlak wrote:

A tailored suit.

...

Oh, this is about Intelligence.

You guys seem to have it covered.

I see somebody shops on Savile Row.


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Why are people fixating on whether this character is practical or its alignment I don't see how that's relevant.


the eldritch creature template will net you massive amounts of stats based on the amount of hit die you have there is probably also some more templates out there that will get you 6+ into int


Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:
Why are people fixating on whether this character is practical or its alignment I don't see how that's relevant.

probably because the question has already been answered and there's not much else to discuss on getting high int


So just being irrelevant because they have nothing better to do?

Also that wasn't true when people started talking about the practicality or alignment of the character being created, and I'm not convinced every avenue has been explored.

Anyway how high did it get in the end? 79?

Dark Archive

Well if the character could wish to have a template added, why not The Savant


ulgulanoth wrote:
Well if the character could wish to have a template added, why not The Savant

Well, its 3rd party to start, but were also not wishing ourselves any templates. It's not supported by the rules. On the other hand, thereare rules to get the half-fiend, devilbound, and vampire/lich templates.

In any case, using Wish to gain templates is clearly beyond its stated power.


Fey Creature template gives +2 Int, and Horror Realms includes the Breach to the Quickening alternate haunt that on a 100 d% result gives you the template (and changes your alignment to CN).


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

If 3rd party material is allowed, the Eldritch Heritage feat chain or VMC Sorcerer for the Aboleth bloodline can eventually give you a +6 inherent bonus to intelligence. The main problem with the Eldritch Heritage feat chain is that the key feat requires a charisma score of at least 15.


David knott 242 wrote:

If 3rd party material is allowed, the Eldritch Heritage feat chain or VMC Sorcerer for the Aboleth bloodline can eventually give you a +6 inherent bonus to intelligence. The main problem with the Eldritch Heritage feat chain is that the key feat requires a charisma score of at least 15.

That would only increase your INT score by 1, as it wouldn't stack with your Wished stats. Still enough to bump your modifier, though.

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