LavastormSW |
Someone in my group wanted to make a neon sign for their bar, which kicked off a whole debate on "if it's not paizo published, it's not real" regarding the laws of physics and if people are actually made out of "real-world" atoms and if oxygen, helium, neon, etc actually exist in pathfinder. Arguments thrown up were "what if everything's made of anti-oxygen," etc. Super dumb. I'm saying that at some level, everything in pathfinder has to follow at least some laws of physics and be made of atoms or else we wouldn't be able to comprehend the game, at least not without a really odd ruleset.
Saldiven |
Look at it this way.
If all real-world physics (atomic stuff, specifically) were present in Pathfinder, a spell like Reduce Person would hit everyone around the target with lethal doses of radiation. That mass has to go somewhere.
Similar issues with Enlarge Person or Polymorph spells that increase size. That mass has to come from somewhere, and then has to return once the duration is over.
Ciaran Barnes |
If it were made out of real-world atoms, we would expect there to be 118 different kinds of elementals. And that's assuming no wizard managed to reach the valley of beta stability.
While that would be amusing, the elements present in RPGs are inspired more by the classical "elements" that those of real world chemistry. I'd love to know what special powers a potassium elemental has.
Saldiven |
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The Chemist Inquisition wrote:If it were made out of real-world atoms, we would expect there to be 118 different kinds of elementals. And that's assuming no wizard managed to reach the valley of beta stability.While that would be amusing, the elements present in RPGs are inspired more by the classical "elements" that those of real world chemistry. I'd love to know what special powers a potassium elemental has.
Don't invite it to your pool party.
The Chemist Inquisition |
The Chemist Inquisition wrote:If it were made out of real-world atoms, we would expect there to be 118 different kinds of elementals. And that's assuming no wizard managed to reach the valley of beta stability.While that would be amusing, the elements present in RPGs are inspired more by the classical "elements" that those of real world chemistry. I'd love to know what special powers a potassium elemental has.
I'd imagine you could lick its skin to get an alchemical bonus to Fort saves against muscle cramps...
ryric RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 |
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Teach your players the difference between in-character knowledge and out of character knowledge. Will a neon sign work? Probably. Does a character from a vaguely medieval/renaissance setting even know what neon is? Probably not. Do they have a way to harvest neon, and the electrical knowledge to make a circuit? Also likely no. In game terms the historical tech progression from early guns to neon signs was probably multiple DC40-45 Knowledge checks made by the smartest people in the world over the course of centuries.
Much, much easier just to cast continual flame on the inside of a glass tube. Boom, instant glowing signs.
Fuzzy-Wuzzy |
Teach your players the difference between in-character knowledge and out of character knowledge. Will a neon sign work? Probably. Does a character from a vaguely medieval/renaissance setting even know what neon is? Probably not. Do they have a way to harvest neon, and the electrical knowledge to make a circuit? Also likely no. In game terms the historical tech progression from early guns to neon signs was probably multiple DC40-45 Knowledge checks made by the smartest people in the world over the course of centuries.
^This.
Much, much easier just to cast continual flame on the inside of a glass tube. Boom, instant glowing signs.
And colored-glass technology does exist, so they can make that neon-green if they like.
Schrodinger's Dice |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Look at it this way.
If all real-world physics (atomic stuff, specifically) were present in Pathfinder, a spell like Reduce Person would hit everyone around the target with lethal doses of radiation. That mass has to go somewhere.
Similar issues with Enlarge Person or Polymorph spells that increase size. That mass has to come from somewhere, and then has to return once the duration is over.
Ah, but if there are other planes, and those planes can be represented as additional axes in a space-time graph (Z', Z", Z"' and so forth), then couldn't the extra matter/energy be routed along, say, the Z' axis during the casting of a spell. Which could correspond to, possibly, the Abyss. Which would explain why demons are so angry and fire immune.
I love science!
ohako |
You could always cast continual flame on one side of a big piece of wood, and then carve a negative cutout of your text on a thin piece of balsa wood. ta~da: a lit up sign.
You could even get extra fancy with layers: 1 layer of flamed wood (most of it gets painted over black), then a layer of stained glass, then another of flamed wood with your first color's flames cut out of the second layer, rinse repeat. Out the other end you get a signpost with colors that never fade.
Anyway...back to your question: if Pathfinder has real-life elements and physics and such, then you also have to account for particles of good and evil, you know, that can be detected and interfered with by detect evil and holy word
EDIT: Ninja'd by many people...
Pizza Lord |
Unless the game world says otherwise, a person is a reasonable analogue of a real-world person. Plant cells will have chlorophyll and cell walls while animal cells will only have cell membranes. Hydrogen atoms will combine with oxygen atoms to form water molecules. Assuming the game world does not restrict interactions for some reason, and assuming the element Neon exists, then you could theoretically make a Neon sign.
If someone were to transport a 'real world' de-atomizer-type weapon into 'your game', then it should affect creatures the same way, unless they are composed of some drastically different components or composition. Is there suspension of disbelief? Yes. There are giant ants that don't crush themselves under their own weight, there are massive flying creatures whose wings would never function but they look cool, but that's just fantasy-styling, they still have a 'realistic' way of moving, even if it's a little hazy on the physics.
However, it is a fantasy world. It evolved with different rules and abilities and certain inventions would not have occurred at the same time if ever.
Let's say you have a game-world and your inns serve meat, cheese, and bread to travelers. Let's say that the sandwich just hasn't been invented. They first 10 minutes into the game, one of your PCs just decides "I am going to sandwich all these parts together and call it a... 'sand-wich'." That doesn't seem like such a far-fetched idea, but for some reason, people didn't do it, but the player is using out-of-game knowledge of something that is realistically possible to do something that a person in a game world wouldn't have done (though the example is probably funny.)
Let me use a better one. People in our world have global communication networks, in a fantasy world, they don't have phones, but a player will try and think of ways to make a real-world thing exist, like a global crystal-ball telecommunication network. If that's not how the settting is prepared, even though it may be doable (or even existed in one of those common-trope 'long-lost and ruined' ancient civilations, a player doing this is actually disrupting the setting. Just like if they tried to make gunpowder and bullets (when your game-world doesn't not have gunslingers), even if it's scientifically simple in theory, they are deliberately trying upset the setting and style of play It's like playing Monopoly where some players just keep giving other players money as gifts or loans so no one ever bankrupts out and there's no final winner. It could still be great fun for everyone... but you aren't playing Monopoly and it's rather rude and unfair to the one or more people trying to actually play the game.
For instance, if worgs and dire wolves exist and a civilization wanted bigger, tougher guard dogs... they would probably just domesticate worgs (using magic or druid/ranger abilities). They wouldn't likely use generations long breeding programs and eugenics to make bigger dogs. There can be exceptions, but we're talking the normal mindset.
If you can just get a cantrip or 1st-level spell that makes your sign glow, why would anyone go to the effort of finding a Neon gas (assuming they had a way to tell it apart from any other gas), seal it in glass-tubing, run an electrical current through it, and decide to then have the tubing twisted into a design, then have to design a constant power-source (and if the answer is magic, they should have stopped at step 1), and then have a sign... which will fail if the fragile glass is damaged or touched, might short out in rain, and might spark or catch fire bringing your place down. It's not logical.
Could there be mad scientist or creative inventor types that do these things? Sure, but those are probably NPCs and even if successful, are still looked on as 'kooky'. The first automobiles could scarcely travel faster than a horse or person at a good clip. It was only over long distances, where the 'car' didn't need to stop and rest that their value was noticed, and this lead to further development. In the game-world, this wouldn't happen, because a person would just say, "My horse may get tired, but I also use longstrider which makes him much faster over the same 'fatigue-distance' and if I do need to go farther or faster, a simple lesser restoration spell or potion does the trick." With the existence of such measures, no one's going to spend the effort regrading and redesigning all the roads to accomodate a car or then design tires that don't wear out, and then have to build way-stations and 'gas stops'. This would only happen if the kingdom had absolutely no access to low-level magic or even low-level casters from elsewhere, and the result was economically beneficial to them.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Short answer
Assuming magic exists, there are tasks and goals that would have been accomplished far easier than the ways we do them, so no one ever would believably bother thinking up a more 'complicated' way to do things. Your PC's ideas and thoughts are out-of-character in most cases (unless they are playing a technological savant or genius, but even then their process and methodology should still fit the game-world and setting.)
quibblemuch |
Anyway...back to your question: if Pathfinder has real-life elements and physics and such, then you also have to account for particles of good and evil, you know, that can be detected and interfered with by detect evil and holy word
Interestingly enough, some of the earliest atomists, the Jains, believed that such moral/ethical qualities were atoms. More specifically, they believed that negative "moral" or "evil" (those words are problematic in this context, just because they might evoke a modern interpretation) was a material substance that adhered to the soul, which could be "cleaned off" allowing the soul to be free from the cycle of material rebirth.
It is, of course, way more complicated and involved than that, but I find it neat that ancient atomic theory went down that road.
Imbicatus |
Well, there is at least one instance of characters from golarion travelling to Earth during world war 1. Not to mention the super-science stuff in Numeria. If they had managed to get a neon sign from either source and a power supply for it, it world work.
If they wanted to invent one with no piror knowledge, no way.
Garbage-Tier Waifu |
Teach your players the difference between in-character knowledge and out of character knowledge. Will a neon sign work? Probably. Does a character from a vaguely medieval/renaissance setting even know what neon is? Probably not. Do they have a way to harvest neon, and the electrical knowledge to make a circuit? Also likely no. In game terms the historical tech progression from early guns to neon signs was probably multiple DC40-45 Knowledge checks made by the smartest people in the world over the course of centuries.
Much, much easier just to cast continual flame on the inside of a glass tube. Boom, instant glowing signs.
Last night, my players were astonished to learn that Golarion has opium, of all things. They were equally astonished that their medical advances were as far as they are, particularly in regards to surgery techniques.
I did explain that penicillin and by extension antibiotics as a whole, while equally as likely to exist in this world than not if someone were to invent it, probably isn't necessary given that magical healing does just as good a job and alchemists are capable of administering these spells via infusions.
Basically, Golarion is probably as advanced as it is because of magic, and in an absence of magic they've largely learnt to fill the gaps (Alkenstar). Neon lighting is probably in Golarion already, and it'd definitely be in Numeria if anywhere.
Worshipper of EA A OE'S |
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Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:Neon lighting is probably in Golarion already, and it'd definitely be in Numeria if anywhere.I'm imagining a Kellid tribe worshiping their glowing, humming god EA A OE'S...
IT SPEAKS TO US.
THE WORDS LIKE THE DRONE OF A THOUSAND INSECTS. INTELLIGIBLE BUT MESMERISING, WASHING AWAY ALL THOUGHT BUT THE HUM! WE ARE DRAWN INTO THE EVERGLOW OF IT'S COLD LIGHT, LIKE THE MOSQUITOES IT MAKES OF US! IT MUST BE A GOD!
RIP AND TEAR FOR THE HOLY BEACON OF COLD FIREICE!
quibblemuch |
quibblemuch wrote:Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:Neon lighting is probably in Golarion already, and it'd definitely be in Numeria if anywhere.I'm imagining a Kellid tribe worshiping their glowing, humming god EA A OE'S...IT SPEAKS TO US.
THE WORDS LIKE THE DRONE OF A THOUSAND INSECTS. INTELLIGIBLE BUT MESMERISING, WASHING AWAY ALL THOUGHT BUT THE HUM! WE ARE DRAWN INTO THE EVERGLOW OF IT'S COLD LIGHT, LIKE THE MOSQUITOES IT MAKES OF US! IT MUST BE A GOD!
RIP AND TEAR FOR THE HOLY BEACON OF COLD FIREICE!
Awesome. Pure, neon-glowy awesome. :)
Java Man |
ryric wrote:Teach your players the difference between in-character knowledge and out of character knowledge. Will a neon sign work? Probably. Does a character from a vaguely medieval/renaissance setting even know what neon is? Probably not. Do they have a way to harvest neon, and the electrical knowledge to make a circuit? Also likely no. In game terms the historical tech progression from early guns to neon signs was probably multiple DC40-45 Knowledge checks made by the smartest people in the world over the course of centuries.
Much, much easier just to cast continual flame on the inside of a glass tube. Boom, instant glowing signs.
Last night, my players were astonished to learn that Golarion has opium, of all things. They were equally astonished that their medical advances were as far as they are, particularly in regards to surgery techniques.
I did explain that penicillin and by extension antibiotics as a whole, while equally as likely to exist in this world than not if someone were to invent it, probably isn't necessary given that magical healing does just as good a job and alchemists are capable of administering these spells via infusions.
Basically, Golarion is probably as advanced as it is because of magic, and in an absence of magic they've largely learnt to fill the gaps (Alkenstar). Neon lighting is probably in Golarion already, and it'd definitely be in Numeria if anywhere.
Random opium trivia, poppies were cultivated and used in ancient mesopotamia, Alexander the Great's army used poppy sap as a medicinal supply.
It should not be surprising to find it in Golarion.
Garbage-Tier Waifu |
Random opium trivia, poppies were cultivated and used in ancient mesopotamia, Alexander the Great's army used poppy sap as a medicinal supply.
It should not be surprising to find it in Golarion.
Oh totally, but they figured the setting would have something weird, like more fantasy trope-y drugs. Not just straight-up opium.
The paladin also said it would have been funny if
I just meant that as a fantasy setting, Golarion isn't completely devoid of science as a practice. And since science is possible, clearly real world technologies do have a chance to be invented and possibly sooner when combined with magical aid. Magic obviously messes with physics, and the rules don't necessarily take physics into account in some cases as it runs on abstraction, but I think we need get past the preconception that Golarion lacks for science at all, and real world physics do not apply. Or, for that matter, that such things are impossible within the rules.
Glorf Fei-Hung |
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The Chemist Inquisition wrote:If it were made out of real-world atoms, we would expect there to be 118 different kinds of elementals. And that's assuming no wizard managed to reach the valley of beta stability.While that would be amusing, the elements present in RPGs are inspired more by the classical "elements" that those of real world chemistry. I'd love to know what special powers a potassium elemental has.
Or When Sodium Elemental's meet Create Water!
Andy Brown |
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I once had a friend who came up with the corollary "Any technology that is distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
Gehm's Corollary, apparently
IsawaBrian |
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Someone in my group wanted to make a neon sign for their bar, which kicked off a whole debate on "if it's not paizo published, it's not real" regarding the laws of physics and if people are actually made out of "real-world" atoms and if oxygen, helium, neon, etc actually exist in pathfinder. Arguments thrown up were "what if everything's made of anti-oxygen," etc. Super dumb. I'm saying that at some level, everything in pathfinder has to follow at least some laws of physics and be made of atoms or else we wouldn't be able to comprehend the game, at least not without a really odd ruleset.
People made some good points about handwaving and player knowledge vs. character knowledge, which honestly should shut down most of it, even if you're playing in Numeria-- glowy bits there do not appear to release toxic gas.
But to answer the question about the laws of physics, et al, I would say the answer is, "Yes, except where it conflicts with the rules as written. Then the rules win."
A roleplaying game simulates many things-- a story, lives, etc. It abstracts some things, and hyper-concretes others-- your barbarian does not actually move 40' over 6 seconds in-character. Sometimes she moves 38; sometimes she moves 42, and so forth. It's just that saying "move 20+5d6" would be incredibly awkward and frustrating for the *game* side of things-- and would still be far too coarse-grained to simulate actual movement. Your wizard's spell formulae don't really take exactly one page per level, and you don't just get advancement at certain points.
You're still describing a world, and it's one where the laws of physics-- unaffected by either abstraction or preternatural effects-- are close enough to our own to be familiar, so whether it's "anti-oxygen" or whatever doesn't matter-- it works. The scientific method, for example, is in many ways actually strengthened by magic-- you do x, you get y repeatable results in z range. _How_ it does that may be weird-- the mass goes to the ethereal plane, the bleedout energy from the sudden stop filters out along the magical backdrop of reality, etc.-- but presumably, if someone REALLY studied it forever, they'd be able to figure out a how, even if it was, "negotiating with the protognomes who pull strings behind the veil of so-called reality."
Of course, that's part of why a neon tube probably won't be created unless the character is a refugee from a standard earth with a nostalgia kick. People don't just randomly say, "Cars. What a neat idea." They either say things like, "Okay, I know how a carriage works and wheels does. I know how fuel powers things like steam engines. Is there a better fuel for this? Can I apply it to make my carriage go very fast and without muscle power?" or "This is an interesting property of this gas I was poking with the scientific equivalent of a stick. I wonder what cool things I can do with it?"
In character, if your PC wants "big lighted letters and signs for my advertising campaign," why would he default to, "A gas I don't know about or have only encountered as a hazard in little tubes?" when he has cheaper, more standard options? Continual flame as per the others just _works_. Illusions may be more efficaceous yet more expensive, but that's why you leverage a bit of both magic and conventional tech-- pre-made shapes that are limned by the continual flame.
This, incidentally, is why the asylum doctors getting cranky about divine magic in Strange Aeons sort of makes sense. Yes, sure, potent divine magic could heal a *given* patient. But not everyone can afford ringing up the Bishop or the Matre or the whatever. Enough people with money have, though, which reduces the amount of funding and political will to look for treatments that -- presumably -- would work without having to make Sunday's post-sermon afternoon tea being a queued event. In turn, people just saying, "Oh, lock them up until a generous cleric has time," would frustrate the BLEEP out of someone with a passion for it, which is why they whine over a wand of bless.
Funnily enough, this gets back to the leveraging-- just like the glassmaker or the smith or the jeweler can make reflective/light-distorting technological products (in the sense of "things we make to do things we can't with our basic biological chassis"), so too-- theoretically-- would a scientific understanding of the mind and insanity help with magical cures. If you knew that a given series of soothing lights and sounds could help alter the brain enough to reduce and potentially even remove an OCD trigger, or a phobia, or whatever, then you could get away with Silent Image, Auditory Hallucination, and so forth, with some Heal checks. So there's also reason to keep looking other than "not everyone paid for the Temple of Pharasma's nice new gothic organ, complete with spooky sounds and orangutan-adjustments last year."
Anyway, tl: dr version is-- try to find out why the character wants it or would even know what to look for and push from there, and ask players to keep metagaming within your comfortable norms.
Java Man |
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Minor quibble: Neon gas isn't toxic or hazardous.
Thanks, daytime me (the chemical safety officer) was cringing a bit....
Valandil Ancalime |
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Someone in my group wanted to make a neon sign for their bar, which kicked off a whole debate on "if it's not paizo published, it's not real" regarding the laws of physics and if people are actually made out of "real-world" atoms and if oxygen, helium, neon, etc actually exist in pathfinder. ...
This kind of thread has gone this far without reference to
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0423.html orhttp://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0457.html
, I am shocked.
Steve Geddes |
Someone in my group wanted to make a neon sign for their bar, which kicked off a whole debate on "if it's not paizo published, it's not real" regarding the laws of physics and if people are actually made out of "real-world" atoms and if oxygen, helium, neon, etc actually exist in pathfinder. Arguments thrown up were "what if everything's made of anti-oxygen," etc. Super dumb. I'm saying that at some level, everything in pathfinder has to follow at least some laws of physics and be made of atoms or else we wouldn't be able to comprehend the game, at least not without a really odd ruleset.
I don't think there's an answer officially, but there's kind of an answer in that James Jacobs once made the point that Golarion was very Earthlike and the Golarion solar system very similar to ours so that they didn't need to learn anything about geology, meteorology, astronomy, etcetera - if it was "a bit like our world" then they knew it would kinda make sense scientifically (as opposed to trying to come up with tides/calendars and such in a world with two suns and four moons or something. Extrapolating from that, I'd say yes - golarion has real world physics/chemistry.
To get around the conservation of energy and relativistic issues with disintegrate/planar travel/teleport and so forth, I'd rely on the good old dualistic "it's magic" explanation*:
Science is how things work unless magic is involved - magic is all the stuff science doesn't apply to.
thejeff |
LavastormSW wrote:Someone in my group wanted to make a neon sign for their bar, which kicked off a whole debate on "if it's not paizo published, it's not real" regarding the laws of physics and if people are actually made out of "real-world" atoms and if oxygen, helium, neon, etc actually exist in pathfinder. Arguments thrown up were "what if everything's made of anti-oxygen," etc. Super dumb. I'm saying that at some level, everything in pathfinder has to follow at least some laws of physics and be made of atoms or else we wouldn't be able to comprehend the game, at least not without a really odd ruleset.I don't think there's an answer officially, but there's kind of an answer in that James Jacobs once made the point that Golarion was very Earthlike and the Golarion solar system very similar to ours so that they didn't need to learn anything about geology, meteorology, astronomy, etcetera - if it was "a bit like our world" then they knew it would kinda make sense scientifically (as opposed to trying to come up with tides/calendars and such in a world with two suns and four moons or something. Extrapolating from that, I'd say yes - golarion has real world physics/chemistry.
To get around the conservation of energy and relativistic issues with disintegrate/planar travel/teleport and so forth, I'd rely on the good old dualistic "it's magic" explanation*:
Science is how things work unless magic is involved - magic is all the stuff science doesn't apply to.
** spoiler omitted **
Though that tends to leave a gap for things that don't work by science rules or magic rules - giant bugs can breathe and giants can still stand up in Antimagic fields.
There are huge doses of "Don't peek behind the curtain" in play and the metagame response of "Your character doesn't know that and has no reason to consider it" should be promptly applied to most "modern science" type things.
-- Unless you want to play that kind of wacky game, of course.
Steve Geddes |
Steve Geddes wrote:LavastormSW wrote:Someone in my group wanted to make a neon sign for their bar, which kicked off a whole debate on "if it's not paizo published, it's not real" regarding the laws of physics and if people are actually made out of "real-world" atoms and if oxygen, helium, neon, etc actually exist in pathfinder. Arguments thrown up were "what if everything's made of anti-oxygen," etc. Super dumb. I'm saying that at some level, everything in pathfinder has to follow at least some laws of physics and be made of atoms or else we wouldn't be able to comprehend the game, at least not without a really odd ruleset.I don't think there's an answer officially, but there's kind of an answer in that James Jacobs once made the point that Golarion was very Earthlike and the Golarion solar system very similar to ours so that they didn't need to learn anything about geology, meteorology, astronomy, etcetera - if it was "a bit like our world" then they knew it would kinda make sense scientifically (as opposed to trying to come up with tides/calendars and such in a world with two suns and four moons or something. Extrapolating from that, I'd say yes - golarion has real world physics/chemistry.
To get around the conservation of energy and relativistic issues with disintegrate/planar travel/teleport and so forth, I'd rely on the good old dualistic "it's magic" explanation*:
Science is how things work unless magic is involved - magic is all the stuff science doesn't apply to.
** spoiler omitted **
Though that tends to leave a gap for things that don't work by science rules or magic rules - giant bugs can breathe and giants can still stand up in Antimagic fields.
There are huge doses of "Don't peek behind the curtain" in play and the metagame response of "Your character doesn't know that and has no reason to consider it" should be promptly applied to most "modern science" type things.
-- Unless you want to play that kind of wacky game, of course.
Don't think about it is a good approach. However, I think the things you mention as a gap are still covered by "magic" - defined as "not-science". The fact anti-magic fields don't negate some things is a terminology issue (the spell name is restricting a specific band of what I've just defined as magic - ie spells and spell-like effects). There's not really an inconsistency there, I've just appropriated a term which has a pre-existing, in-game meaning (so silly me, but there you go!)
IsawaBrian |
Minor quibble: Neon gas isn't toxic or hazardous.
Whups. Got my periodic table bits mixed up. So there's even less likelihood that they would have noticed it in the first place, save perhaps as an alchemist experimenting, I suppose.
Qaianna |
Pretty hard to notice Neon, it doesn't do a durn thing. Unless you put a voltage through it at low pressure and then it's purty.
Field research for that quickly gets expensive. Multiple castings of a third level spell add up, and this assumes you were smart enough to have all those Lightning Bolts aimed away from damagable items.
That said ... yeah, I think the book itself at some point cited that things work like the real world without much issue. (It might've been an old 3.5 book too.) That includes things like atoms.
And if they keep on about it, remind them about how gold works. Awww ...
Pizza Lord |
I believe arcane mark only allows you to inscribe your personal mark or rune. I don't believe you can make it whatever design you want (other than when you first use it to make your arcane mark.) The only way you can get it to glow is when it's affected by a detect magic spell.
I could certainly see allowing a custom magic item sign that utilized arcane mark and detect magic in its construction, but that would likely only be the caster's personal mark and suitable for hanging over his door or business. (Although, if I allowed them to do that I probably would also allow them to customize the words, since I would just consider arcane mark a requirement, not a restriction, but baseline spell I don't think it would work.)
You are right that there's definitely more efficient magical alternatives; continual flame or persistent image (even if someone disbelieves your sign, it's still there and visible, just as a hazy vision to those who want to be jerks, not to everyone else passing by, plus its vandal and theft-resistant.) One good flung rock or piece of horse manure from a mischievous urchin or neighbor annoyed at the constant buzzing and your neon sign needs replacement.
Ciaran Barnes |
Minor quibble: Neon gas isn't toxic or hazardous.
H20 doesn't actually conduct electricity very well.
Ravingdork |
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Are things and people in Pathfinder made out of real-world atoms?
The ouroboros—the serpent that eternally consumes itself—occupies a place in the mythology of many civilizations, yet few suspect that these legends are inspired by a real and terrifying race of creatures.
...
They are each a world unto themselves, autonomous and reliant on no other creature for their sustenance or livelihood. An ouroboros can exist forever, constantly eating itself and replenishing its body with its own infinity.
...
An ouroboros might appear to be a single creature, but closer inspection reveals the truth: its body is formed from a myriad of smaller entwined serpents, which are not independent creatures and become lifeless once separated from the main body. Those who have examined serpents detached from an ouroboros report that these creatures too are formed from smaller serpents that, when inspected under magnification, prove to be composed of tinier serpents still.
PossibleCabbage |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |
I think the Ouroboros is just proof that superstring theory is true in the Pathfinder universe, since what are are infinitesimal snakes if not "strings of the planck length vibrating at resonant frequencies"?
So if atoms are made of snakes, something else being made of snakes doesn't indicate there are no atoms.
Alternatively, there is probably non-baryonic matter in the Pathfinder universe, just like there appears to be in our universe.
Ventnor |
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I'm of the opinion that there are 4 main subatomic particles in the pathfinder universe: good, evil, law, and chaos. They're mixed fairly evenly in most mortals, but outsiders are composed heavily of one or two kinds of said particles (except for Aeons, because they're weird like that).
If alignment is objective in the Pathfinder universe, it would make sense that it was baked into the very building blocks that make up everything.